Good points, I agree the 3rd comparative analysis and the Liliana are the main 2 spots up for debate, I've been testing various stuff instead over the extra draw such as 1 Murder or even 1 Tutelage for the control mirror. Perhaps it would be best to cut them for x2 Broken Concentration, my only concern is drawing too many counters vs aggro early when they already have creatures down, has that been an issue for you?

Perhaps for your deck you could keep 5 islands and go to 1 plains? Edit: Yeah nvm, too risky.

Games with the changes:

Game 1: Win vs. Aggro (on the draw)
Lots of buffs, lots of creatures to profit from those buffs (Lone Rider, Champion of Iroas). Fortunately for me his draw was very slow; his first play being a t3 Champion. I had Telling Time to setup my draws as well as a Shrivel to counter his t4 Nahiri, but no instant-speed removal meant that Champion and a manland put me to 8 life by t5. I found the very narrow way to survive the onslaught afterwards; which ended up with me being way ahead on cards.

Abbey/Disciple vs. Island/Lili: Drew both this game. Abbey did not cause mana problems as I had enough Blue, and Disciple saved the game by trading 1-for-1 with a problematic man-land which I wouldn't have had an answer for with Lili.


Game 2: Win vs. Mill (on the draw; I mulliganed to 6)
Not a great match-up generally, especially if you have to mulligan on the draw. Fortunately he did not have a t3 Tutelage, and whenever he tried to resolve his Tutelage later I won the counter-war. Westvale Abbey ended up winning the match for me by generating a few tokens, which, combined with a manland of mine as well as Sorin, put up enough pressure.

Abbey/Disciple vs. Island/Lili: Abbey won the game; didn't draw Disciple (would've preferred it over Lili though).


Game 3: Loss vs. control/discard (on the draw)
Kept 3 lands, two Blessed Alliance and two 5-mana spells; did not draw any lands after that except for my very last draw step. I maybe jumped the gun Imprisoning his baby Jace, which gave him a window to resolve his big Jace whom I had no answer for (I doubt it would have made too much of a difference though). His hand disruption spellls (Whispers of Emrakul, Distended Mindbender) didn't have too much of an effect as my hand was ill-equipped to deal with him anyway; I surrendered on big Jace's ultimate.

Abbey/Disciple vs. Island/Lili: Saw neither, wouldn't have made a difference.


Game 4: Win vs. Angel control (on the play)
Kept 2 lands and Telling Time, worked out like a charm due to great land draws. Had massive amounts of counters early never really allowing him anything; all the answers at all the right times. Won by having a massive card advantage; he conceded to Sorin who revealed Gideon on his +1.

Abbey/Disciple vs. Island/Lili: Abbey was one of my lands in the starting hand and one time I wished it was an Island; but it ended up working out (though it was on mana duty all the time). Drew Disciple late, decided to cast Sorin rather than her (she would've been better than Liliana though).


Game 5: Loss vs. Spirits (on the draw)
Good starting hand ended up flooding horribly; the only spells I saw on my first 6 turns were Telling Time, Languish and Confirm Suspicions from my starting hand as well as a Grasp of Darkness off Telling Time - no answer for his t5 Jace, though. A Westvale Abbey Token could keep him off the ultimate (which would've been backbreaking for me) for some time, but ultimately he got way too many cards off it while I drew neither Imprisoned nor Unmaking.

Abbey/Disciple vs. Island/Lili: Didn't draw Disciple; would've slightly preferred Lili in this match-up. Abbey was the only thing kinda keeping him in check for a long time.


TL:DR Abbey is definitely in over the Island; also Disciple > Lili for now; though that slot seems to be highly flexible and I could see a lot of cards here; including Avacyn and baby Jace.

The counters are still good vs. aggro; they keep the board from spiraling out of control too much while you wait to either cast a sweeper or 2 spot removal or counter+removal in one turn. I like them better in that match-up than extra draw; often you just don't have time for that. Liliana is situational against aggro as well.

Drawing too many counters when they have the board had been an issue for me while running Horribly Awry over some of the early-game removal; with 3 Grasp and 3 Blessed Alliance it rarely has been the case. If you still feel like you draw too many counters vs. aggro, you can try Declaration in Stone though.


EDIT:

Going to 1 plains greatly reduces my chances of getting when I need it as I cut 5 sources for in a sense (as Plains+Wilds or Wilds+Wilds can no longer be ); I need for Gideon and Planar Outburst and sometimes is convenient (albeit not necessary).
If I really want 5 Island, I'll go down to 2 Swamp, but that doesn't seem like it's worth it either. Or I'll run 27 lands, which I wouldn't hate.

Just a kind of Random note here. I like the 2 of on each counter instead of 2 Scatter and 3 Broken, but for a different reason then versatility.

When playing against a counter deck, when I see a counter, I generally assume that they are running a full set of that counter, especially on something like Broken. If I see one of each, I will greatly overestimate your ability to counter my spells, and play more conservatively, thereby giving you more time to set up your victory condition.

I have considered adding a single counter to my Jeskai just for that psychological advantage when it comes up, but I think that may be a bit too "techie" for duels.

Probably so. The first and foremost issue is our own versatility and flexibility before worrying about how it is interpreted by others.

Edit: Deleted post as my list has changed a lot as of this post.

Well I guess I should post my list. I finally lost a round against RW aggro since I started playing this extensively 2 days ago. He got 2 Iroas's Champion, Thalia lieutenant and somebody else out. Had Languish and murder in hand, but couldn't get double black in time. Had it been in a tourney, I would not have kept the hand, so I'm not too terribly worried.

Esper Why not have all the Wincons?

1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 x Blessed Alliance
2 x telling Time
2 x Unsubstantiate
2 x Declaration in Stone

2 x Scatter to the Winds
3 x Broken Concentration
2 x Spell Shrivel
2 x Murder
2 x Anguished Unmaking
1 x Liliana, the last hope

2 x Comparative Analysis
2 x Languish
2 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

1 x Archangel Avacyn
1 x Disciple of the Ring
2 x Confirm Suspicions
2 x Planar Outburst
1 x Big Jace
1 x Ob Nixilis

1 x Sorin

Lands 26

2 x Plains
4 x Island
2 x Swamp
2 x Shambling Vent
2 x Sunken Hollow
2 x Prairie Stream
1 x Westvale Abbey
2 x Drowned Catacombs
2 x Isolated chapel
2 x glacial fortress
4 x Wilds


Yeah I got tired typing a couple times...

Anyway, so yeah I've got Abbey, Lily, Ring, Avacyn and baby Jace.

Abbey helps in the mirror and inevitability.

I love lily. Especially t3 with an Unsub in hand.

Disciple is OP.

Baby Jace for recursion. Though sometimes I think he's going to eat removal unless you try to play him once you can protect him.

I love Unsub. I don't know why everybody is hating on it. Want to play your PW but you don't want them to play theirs next turn and only have PW mana +2, check. You don't care if they play Nissa's Renewal, but you want to Time Warp for 2 mana on t6, check. You're on the draw and they drop some nasty 2 drop that you want to counter, Unsub it at the end of their t3, check. Need that extra turn to ultimate Lily, check. Want to bounce that threat back to get maximum payoff from your sweeper a couple turns down the road, check. The list goes on and on.

As long as you can control the board efficiently, Blessed Alliance is a life gaining champ. Answers anything. Ulamog, Gaeas Revenge, TKS whoever. Wish I had 3.

7 hard counters and 2 spell shrivels. I did actually almost lose a game because I only drew counters and no removal. The guy had the upper hand but rage quit after I countered his Hydra haha.

2 murder, I wish I had 3. 2 of dec stone and anguished. Though, Lily doubles as removal against white weenies too.

2 Telling time and 2 confirm suspicions for draw. I have considered going to one Scour the Laboratory instead of the 2 confirm suspicions, so I can have a 3 of something else, but thats not going to fly.

I wish I could have 3 BA, 3 TT. But I'm not cutting Unsub.

Thoughts?

And then I got owned by a RDW with only 2 mana. Goblin Glory Chaser, Arsonist, 3 Titans strength and bolt to finish me off.

Cut the shrivels for another Blessed Alliance and Unsubstinatiate.

I'd say cut Murder for Grasp and Unsubstantiate for the third Blessed Alliance and Telling Time.

Also, if I did count correctly, you're playing 25 lands in a 61-card-deck. You definitely want the 26th land (a third Swamp) and then cut two more cards.

If your playing lots of aggro which I believe you xbox guys are then i would add in 2-3 dead weights, and like Modulo said you definitely want the 3rd copy of blessed alliance, right now I'm running 3 copies in all my control decks with white because it's just that good.

I might have copied the deck wrong. It's 60 cards with 26 land. I'll try cutting the shrivels for BA and maybe add grasp.

So I've re-read the last couple pages. Am I being too greedy having baby jace, Avacyn, disciple, lily and abbey in the deck?

I know Vert swears by baby jace and I just love Lily. Looking at the last few tourneys, I really don't think we will see much aggro. Mostly control and midrange. So having a creature less build may be the way to go. Though I don't see Disciple as being a problem as she can protect herself from all the removal.

You may get one block and attack with Avacyn before she's removed. Is it worth it?

Baby Jace's recursion is huge though.

And I have to have Abbey to beat Vert's face in when the mirror comes up haha!

I think it might be too greedy. You could try it if you removed some removal as well as some counters, but this makes the deck less consistent, you really need a high density of answers, which leads to not being able to run too many threats.

Baby Jace is really good, though; I could see him replacing Disciple in my list.
Avacyn works well with the Flash theme of the deck, but is a removal magnet. I found her good to pressure Planeswalkers, but two Imprisoned in the Moon make thm less of an issue.
Lily I think does a similar thing to Abbey, but Abbey goes over a land, whereas Lili takes a spell slot.

Maybe cut an Unsubstantiate for the third Blessed Alliance, but the list is pretty good as is.

Personally, I'm not a fan of Disciple this season tbh. It's harder to keep her alive because of all the 2 mana kill spells, and yeah you can stack her "counter target spell unless they pay " but that won't be a problem for them if it's in the late game and both of yall have 8+ lands on the field. She may be fine for pubs, but I believe she'll have problems in tournament; maybe as an sideboard option though.

Usually she is a t8+ play. That way you can hard counter something. And you have the advantage on mana. It only costs you 1 to counter. It costs them the original spell cost plus 2 for every time you 1.

That's almost like card advantage haha. Mana advantage.

Anyway, if she sticks for one turn its GG.

lol, until the third time she time walks for you. She runs over removal.

So I built an Esper deck yesterday that is the first deck I'm really happy with since EMN was released. Checked this thread to see what all of you were doing with Esper Control, and think it's pretty interesting where we ended up in the same spots and where we differ.

Here's my list:

Planeswalkers (5)

1 x Sorin, Grim Adversary
1 x Lilliana, the Last Hope
1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 x Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 x Jace, Unraveler of Secrets

Creatures (3)

1 x Linvala the Preserver
1 x Archangel Avacyn
1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy

Enchantments (2)

2 x Oath of Lilliana

Spells (24)

3 x Telling Time
2 x Blessed Alliance
4 x Take Inventory
3 x Broken Concentration
2 x Scatter to the Winds
2 x Anguished Unmaking
2 x Languish
2 x Confirm Suspicions
2 x Planar Outburst
2 x Tragic Arrogance

Lands (26)

4 x Island
4 x Evolving Wilds
3 x Plains
3 x Swamp
2 x Shambling Vent
2 x Sunken Hollow
2 x Prairie Stream
2 x Drowned Catacomb
2 x Isolated Chapel
2 x Glacial Fortress


So far I've won 17 out of 20 games with it, and it has felt powerful and consistent. Mill decks I think are not a particularly good match-up, though I'm 2-1 against them so far, and aggro decks with particularly good draws are likely too fast. But it has very much felt like average draws from this deck beat average draws from most everything else, particularly the various non-esper 3-5 color good stuff decks floating around the Steam meta. I've not found a lack of winning conditions to be a problem so far, though I also haven't run into the mirror, but am still tempted to go up to 61 cards and add a Westvale Abbey, as I really don't want to cut anything currently in the deck.

A few thoughts on card choices:

Avacyn isn't a good genuine winning condition, but is often able to snipe a creature land or assasinate an enemy planeswalker, so I think she more than earns her slot.

Baby Jace often eats removal, but if an aggressive opposing deck spends their turn two or three killing Jace rather than playing out a threat, I'm more than happy with that exchange. And with Last Hope, his ability to recur whatever spell you need is pretty important (particularly against mill decks, as he can get back Anguished Unmaking to take care of a tutelage). He's also just a productive use of a game's turn two. It's a pet peeve of mine to play a deck that can't do something useful on turn two.

I'm running all six sweepers and cutting some of the instant speed removal found in most lists (no grasp of darkness for instance) because I want to consistently able to cast a sweeper by turn five, as I've been running into a lot of aggressive creature decks. I've not included Declaration in Stone, Unsubstantiate or Trapped in the Moon because I really hate giving up card advantage, but may be wrong on some or all of those.

Take Inventory has been quite good for me, as games tend to go long and I most often cast three, which really contributes to the deck's inevitability. The extra velocity is quite helpful early on too, just digging one card deeper for the fuel you need. It may well be that Comparative Analysis is simply right, but I went with Take Inventory just so that I've got eight cards to productively cast on turn two along with baby Jace and Telling Time (removal often isn't a genuine two drop, as there may not be something to kill). It's a lot easier to stomach keeping a two land hand after one mulligan when you've got a cantrip in the hand to dig one card deeper for land.

I'm torn on whether to try to add another win con, just because there are some I think are quite good cards (Alhammarret is one I've always liked, Bruna is objectively powerful, Westvale Abbey is amazing in draw-go mirrors, and Disciple of the Ring is good too). However, once this deck gets rolling it generates just so much card advantage that I haven't had trouble finding a way to win, even if sometimes that's by awakened land beat down or baby Jace Emblem or something stupid. And none of the games I have lost would have gone better with higher win con density, so I probably should be disciplined and skip it.

Any of you guys have any thoughts, criticisms or suggestions?

Your list looks really good overall. How has Oath of Lily been working for you? I figured since you want to be casting boardwipes consistently you could probably cut them for more win conditions. They do protect your Planeswalkers so I can see why you added them in.