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 Post subject: Wharf Infiltrator
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:48 am 
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Scenario: I control a Wharf Infiltrator and Platinum Angel. I have a creature card in hand and no cards in my library. I attack with Wharf Infiltrator. It is not blocked and combat damage is not prevented.

Question: If I choose to draw a card, do I get to discard my creature card even though there are no cards to draw from my library?

I'm leaning towards a no (55% sure it's correct) but want to be sure.

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 Post subject: Re: Wharf Infiltrator
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:57 am 
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Edacade wrote:
Scenario: I control a Wharf Infiltrator and Platinum Angel. I have a creature card in hand and no cards in my library. I attack with Wharf Infiltrator. It is not blocked and combat damage is not prevented.

Question: If I choose to draw a card, do I get to discard my creature card even though there are no cards to draw from my library?

I'm leaning towards a no (55% sure it's correct) but want to be sure.

You do not get to discard. The "if you do" means "if you draw a card", not "if you choose to draw a card".

This is the same reason why you can't deal extra damage with Furnace Scamp if it gets killed while the trigger is on the stack.


I was wrong. See below.

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Last edited by CommanderJim on Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Wharf Infiltrator
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:21 pm 
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Yes, you will discard the card and get a fluffy Eldrazi Horror token. Choosing to draw a card is possible even when your library is empty. Also, the "if you do" clause applies if you chose the option to draw a card, even if you actually didn't draw because the library was empty or a replacement effect changed what happened.

Rules wrote:
120.3. If there are no cards in a player's library and an effect offers that player the choice to draw a card, that player can choose to do so. However, if an effect says that a player can't draw cards and another effect offers that player the choice to draw a card, that player can't choose to do so.

117.12. Some spells, activated abilities, and triggered abilities read, "[Do something]. If [a player] [does or doesn't], [effect]." or "[A player] may [do something]. If [that player] [does or doesn't], [effect]." The action [do something] is a cost, paid when the spell or ability resolves. The "If [a player] [does or doesn't]" clause checks whether the player chose to pay an optional cost or started to pay a mandatory cost, regardless of what events actually occurred.


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 Post subject: Re: Wharf Infiltrator
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:38 pm 
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That's really interesting. I guess it works because attempting to draw from an empty library isn't an illegal action.

So in the Furnace Scamp scenario (say it gets Unsummoned with the trigger on the stack), I'd assume that you can't choose to sacrifice it, since it no longer exists, and sacrificing a non-existent creature is an illegal action.

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 Post subject: Re: Wharf Infiltrator
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:10 pm 
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Correct. It's only drawing a card that's a weird exception,


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 Post subject: Re: Wharf Infiltrator
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:29 pm 
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That is indeed a weird exception. Thanks for clarifications.

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 Post subject: Re: Wharf Infiltrator
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:24 pm 
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Interesting rules note: the reason it's a weird exception is because if it wasn't, it would be impossible to lose to decking. The game doesn't let you "attempt to perform" impossible actions, it just skips those instructions entirely, so if there was no exception, when your library was empty and something tried to get you to draw a card, you'd just skip that instruction. And since you skipped the instruction, you never attempted to draw a card, so there's no reason for you to lose...

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