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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:37 am 
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It's not hard to say at all. It's real bad


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:34 am 
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Why are people defending crap cards? Let garbage be garbage and move on.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:44 am 
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Why are people who are convinced a card is unplayable garbage bothering to argue with people who are trying to think of clever ways to make use of it? Let the people who like to get wonky be wonky and move on ;-P

Edit: for a minute I thought that :w: enchantment that gives equipments and auras flash worked for all enchantments and was ready to build a deck that turned the enchantment/counter into a legit :2::u: hard counter that I could use on repeat with auramancer... But dammit it's not going to work that way :/

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Last edited by The Secret of TIMH on Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:48 am 
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GFTL wrote:
Why are people defending crap cards? Let garbage be garbage and move on.


Because they are playing a crap game with a crap format. Sometimes even on a crap system to boot!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:54 am 
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binderato wrote:
New blue card just got posted on mythic spoiler no translation yet other than 2 normal mana and a blue.

edit:


Power of the Moon

2U
Enchantment
Whenever an opponent casts a spell, sacrifice Power of the Moon and counter that spell.
The moon's sacred warmth calms me. One cannot feel this way under the sun.

not exactly what I was hoping for :(.


What the ... ???

I guess if you have so many counters that you plan to just indiscriminately counter EVERYTHING they throw, then... maybe if they topdeck land on the next turn you can throw a counter and save more land for later to... counter... again?

I got nothing. Not even an empty throne to justify the bits to code this card. I have no throne at all. Sigil of the Null Throne Exception.


Image

So, the obvious comparison here for you old-timers and vintage/legacy folks is Hesitation, which sees occasional play in budget builds like a "fair" version of Standstill. Hesitation threatens all spells, even your own, so it's a stall tactic (or it makes your early drops/manlands really annoying to deal with). Power of the Moon only threatens the opponent's spells, but it costs 1 more mana, which is a bit crippling. It's bad, but not so bad that I won't try it and see what happens. Sometimes the very act of putting down a card like this puts the opponent off their game (on "tilt," which I guess is a pinball reference), and you can absolutely watch some players make poor decisions trying to deal with a simple on-board trick like this.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:10 am 
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I don't think I've ever seen Hesitation, but I did think of Standstill when I saw power of the moon and had memories of disrupting game plans. I used to love Standstill back in the day.

I suspect people will find ways to get cute with this card and pull off outrageous stuff. We prob won't (at least without new toys from future sets) in our format, but I prob will try to make good use of it. Prob fail to make anything legit, but will piss a person or two off when beating them in a game I play the card in - like how peep rage when they lose to an aura deck.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:16 am 
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Starfield of Nyx on the field makes this into a Big Jace emblem. We don't have that option.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:19 am 
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In other news, how messed up is it that they'll print Imprisioned In the Moon in the same they print Working Together? We'll prob get both in duels so everyone will be main decking enchantment hate that will quell one of our few ways to answer PWers... :cries:

Seriously they better be holding out on some unspoiled cards that answer walkers.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:21 am 
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With the large amount of enchantment cards we may be getting, I could see Starfield being the AoT replacement.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:27 am 
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GFTL wrote:
Starfield of Nyx on the field makes this into a Big Jace emblem. We don't have that option.


That's exactly the type of thing I was talking about - it's a counterspell on an unusual card type, there has to be a way to break it... But of course we don't have it... :(

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:29 am 
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With the large amount of enchantment cards we may be getting, I could see Starfield being the AoT replacement.


If (IF) we get it, and I'm not holding my breath because that opalescence-lite ability seems like a coding nightmare, it's still a one-of, so good luck assembling that combo.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:29 am 
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I dunno. I see a number of applications for Power of the Moon. In a midrange/tempo deck vs. control, you can drop that T3. They either have to counter it and have one less counter in hand, or play something main phase to get rid of it, or automatically let your T4 play through. In any deck, just drop it after Sylvan Advocate or baby Jace to protect them. Also, it can be used to protect your creatures - if they have only one removal spell in hand, or only enough mana to play it as their only spell the next turn, your creatures survive another turn. It's anti-sweeper tech; play dudes turns 1-3, or 1-4 if playing first, then on your 4th/5th turn, drop this. They don't have enough mana to play both a 5 mana sweeper and something to pop this, so if they tapped out the prior turn and couldn't pop it as an instant, you probably just won the game. It works in discard-backed decks (which are about to become a thing) by limiting what spells they can throw at it to get rid of it. It delays Geistramp from going off an extra turn, or keeps opponents from playing a PW on curve. It's absolutely brutal as a response to Call the Gatewatch. This applies all the pressure of Standstill or Hesitation, except completely one-sided so that you don't even have to be ahead when you play it to get value out of it.

This is to say nothing of shenanigans with Auramancer, Greenwarden, etc. PotM won't break Duels, but if you can't find uses for it, you're not trying hard enough.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:23 am 
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I dunno. I see a number of applications for Power of the Moon. In a midrange/tempo deck vs. control, you can drop that T3. They either have to counter it and have one less counter in hand, or play something main phase to get rid of it, or automatically let your T4 play through. In any deck, just drop it after Sylvan Advocate or baby Jace to protect them. Also, it can be used to protect your creatures - if they have only one removal spell in hand, or only enough mana to play it as their only spell the next turn, your creatures survive another turn. It's anti-sweeper tech; play dudes turns 1-3, or 1-4 if playing first, then on your 4th/5th turn, drop this. They don't have enough mana to play both a 5 mana sweeper and something to pop this, so if they tapped out the prior turn and couldn't pop it as an instant, you probably just won the game. It works in discard-backed decks (which are about to become a thing) by limiting what spells they can throw at it to get rid of it. It delays Geistramp from going off an extra turn, or keeps opponents from playing a PW on curve. It's absolutely brutal as a response to Call the Gatewatch. This applies all the pressure of Standstill or Hesitation, except completely one-sided so that you don't even have to be ahead when you play it to get value out of it.

This is to say nothing of shenanigans with Auramancer, Greenwarden, etc. PotM won't break Duels, but if you can't find uses for it, you're not trying hard enough.


Hmm you're still better off running a counterspell over this though. Even Spell Shrivel with the same casting cost would be more useful in most situations as you can choose the target. Drop this and they play some crappy 1 or 2 drop next turn and you've wasted a counter. Plus the idea is not to reveal counter spells lol!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:41 am 
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StepUp wrote:
I dunno. I see a number of applications for Power of the Moon. In a midrange/tempo deck vs. control, you can drop that T3. They either have to counter it and have one less counter in hand, or play something main phase to get rid of it, or automatically let your T4 play through. In any deck, just drop it after Sylvan Advocate or baby Jace to protect them. Also, it can be used to protect your creatures - if they have only one removal spell in hand, or only enough mana to play it as their only spell the next turn, your creatures survive another turn. It's anti-sweeper tech; play dudes turns 1-3, or 1-4 if playing first, then on your 4th/5th turn, drop this. They don't have enough mana to play both a 5 mana sweeper and something to pop this, so if they tapped out the prior turn and couldn't pop it as an instant, you probably just won the game. It works in discard-backed decks (which are about to become a thing) by limiting what spells they can throw at it to get rid of it. It delays Geistramp from going off an extra turn, or keeps opponents from playing a PW on curve. It's absolutely brutal as a response to Call the Gatewatch. This applies all the pressure of Standstill or Hesitation, except completely one-sided so that you don't even have to be ahead when you play it to get value out of it.

This is to say nothing of shenanigans with Auramancer, Greenwarden, etc. PotM won't break Duels, but if you can't find uses for it, you're not trying hard enough.


Hmm you're still better off running a counterspell over this though. Even Spell Shrivel with the same casting cost would be more useful in most situations as you can choose the target. Drop this and they play some crappy 1 or 2 drop next turn and you've wasted a counter. Plus the idea is not to reveal counter spells lol!

:confused::confused:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 5:27 am 
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I like Power of the Moon. I see it as a tempo card that's good against mid range decks which are plenty in our format. It's usage may depend on the synergy of the deck - enchantments, delirium. I don't think it's bad. If we get this card, it will add variety to deck design.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:55 am 
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I dunno. I see a number of applications for Power of the Moon. In a midrange/tempo deck vs. control, you can drop that T3. They either have to counter it and have one less counter in hand, or play something main phase to get rid of it, or automatically let your T4 play through. In any deck, just drop it after Sylvan Advocate or baby Jace to protect them. Also, it can be used to protect your creatures - if they have only one removal spell in hand, or only enough mana to play it as their only spell the next turn, your creatures survive another turn. It's anti-sweeper tech; play dudes turns 1-3, or 1-4 if playing first, then on your 4th/5th turn, drop this. They don't have enough mana to play both a 5 mana sweeper and something to pop this, so if they tapped out the prior turn and couldn't pop it as an instant, you probably just won the game. It works in discard-backed decks (which are about to become a thing) by limiting what spells they can throw at it to get rid of it. It delays Geistramp from going off an extra turn, or keeps opponents from playing a PW on curve. It's absolutely brutal as a response to Call the Gatewatch. This applies all the pressure of Standstill or Hesitation, except completely one-sided so that you don't even have to be ahead when you play it to get value out of it.

This is to say nothing of shenanigans with Auramancer, Greenwarden, etc. PotM won't break Duels, but if you can't find uses for it, you're not trying hard enough.


I would rather disrupt their tempo by countering the thing at the top of the curve than by pushing the curve back a turn.

Let me illustrate: opponent plays first, so your turn 3 you can drop this. Their turn 4 they can play Explosive Vegetation. But instead, seeing your counter, they play their 2nd copy of, I dunno, Duskwatch Recruiter, pick something for 2 mana.
So "yay!" you say. "I stopped them from using Explosive!"
But you didn't stop them completely. A normal counterspell and they play Explosive and you get rid of it. It's done. Gone. Not trying again next turn.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:16 am 
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binderato wrote:
New blue card just got posted on mythic spoiler no translation yet other than 2 normal mana and a blue.

edit:


Power of the Moon

2U
Enchantment
Whenever an opponent casts a spell, sacrifice Power of the Moon and counter that spell.
The moon's sacred warmth calms me. One cannot feel this way under the sun.

not exactly what I was hoping for :(.


What the ... ???

I guess if you have so many counters that you plan to just indiscriminately counter EVERYTHING they throw, then... maybe if they topdeck land on the next turn you can throw a counter and save more land for later to... counter... again?

I got nothing. Not even an empty throne to justify the bits to code this card. I have no throne at all. Sigil of the Null Throne Exception.


Image

So, the obvious comparison here for you old-timers and vintage/legacy folks is Hesitation, which sees occasional play in budget builds like a "fair" version of Standstill. Hesitation threatens all spells, even your own, so it's a stall tactic (or it makes your early drops/manlands really annoying to deal with). Power of the Moon only threatens the opponent's spells, but it costs 1 more mana, which is a bit crippling. It's bad, but not so bad that I won't try it and see what happens. Sometimes the very act of putting down a card like this puts the opponent off their game (on "tilt," which I guess is a pinball reference), and you can absolutely watch some players make poor decisions trying to deal with a simple on-board trick like this.

The way I see it, it can buy a control player time. That can be good, because control needs time to set up. It can and will screw your opponents tempo.
Imagine this scenario: against White aggro, play it turn 3. T3 or T4 is when they drop always watching and start beating down hard. With the Enchantment out they'll have to sacrifice a Weaker creature or a Combat trick before always watching comes down. So you bought yourself a turn to draw a sweeper or get to 4 or 5 lands to play that sweeper. In this scenario, its not so bad...
Or imagine late game, when your opponent is in topdecking mode. He'll have to draw a lesser spell to sacrifice first, before he can cast the important spell if you happen to play the Enchantment. Its 1-for-1 so it doesn't give anyone card advantage, but you do mess with your opponents tempo.
And... Everyone is playing powercards, how often do you have expendable cards in your hand? If its often, you probably have a bad deck.
So... Some Insight and imagination is necessary before you can dismiss cards as simply bad... It may not be a card you want to put in any of your decks, but as history shows, many cards that seem bad or meh at first can become annoying staple in many decks (acid-moss Ring a Bell?)

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:30 am 
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Based on the handy in-game pop up, it looks like Duels could be getting EMN around August 1st.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:31 am 
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Does it HAVE to counter the next spell played? Or can you pick and choose when to use it?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:32 am 
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Does it HAVE to counter the next spell played? Or can you pick and choose when to use it?


It has to, there is no "may" in the text.

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