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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:43 pm 
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Just 2 corrections

1. We got 8 Mythics in OGW (Linvala, Tentacle pr0n, Kalitas, Chandra, Nissa, Kozi, Tazri and Kozi's Return)

2. G&G are in one of the pictures posted in the confirmation thread, so they are confirmed.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:51 pm 
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The duels twitter tweeted Decimator so I think that's in and it's more considered green than colourless.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:02 pm 
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The duels twitter tweeted Decimator so I think that's in and it's more considered green than colourless.

well it does have a green color identity

and as a U mage, I really don't want mind's dilation. 7 mana to get a card killed by a 3 mana card? no thanks


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:13 pm 
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Sir_Shadow wrote:
Haven_pt wrote:
I want a card that says: exile all plainswalker cards. Can't be countered (optional).
Can be Black, Red or both and has a 4cmc tops. Please wizards, print this card soon or stop making new PW cards. They bore the hell out of me...
You're like the only one. The vast majority loves planeswalkers and thinks they're cool af.


I like Planeswalkers but especially in Duels they are overpowered af due to how hard they are to get rid of (especially OGW Nissa and Gideon).

Plus there's the whole way they completely change many fundamental rules of Magic which had not previously been messed with at all. It's like someone just stapled them onto an existing game, which is exactly what happened.

On the subject of that card that says "Exile all other spells" - what about that new dude that says "can be cast from Exile" - would that mean he would still get summoned? Super weird edge case but my gut says "yes".


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:19 pm 
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Sir_Shadow wrote:
Haven_pt wrote:
I want a card that says: exile all plainswalker cards. Can't be countered (optional).
Can be Black, Red or both and has a 4cmc tops. Please wizards, print this card soon or stop making new PW cards. They bore the hell out of me...
You're like the only one. The vast majority loves planeswalkers and thinks they're cool af.


I like Planeswalkers but especially in Duels they are overpowered af due to how hard they are to get rid of (especially OGW Nissa and Gideon).

Plus there's the whole way they completely change many fundamental rules of Magic which had not previously been messed with at all. It's like someone just stapled them onto an existing game, which is exactly what happened.

On the subject of that card that says "Exile all other spells" - what about that new dude that says "can be cast from Exile" - would that mean he would still get summoned? Super weird edge case but my gut says "yes".


Do you mean Summary Dismissal and Eternal Scourge? Here's what happens:

1. You cast Scourge.
2. Opponent responds with Dismissal
3. Scourge goes to exile.
4. You can cast Scourge again from exile, provided that you have priority and the mana to do it.

It's similar to what happens if your opponent uses Declaration in Stone on him.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:26 pm 
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I have a quick question - is the damage caused by a Fight effect (such as Prey Upon) considered battle damage? Mostly asking in regards to Permeating Mass

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:30 pm 
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I have a quick question - is the damage caused by a Fight effect (such as Prey Upon) considered battle damage? Mostly asking in regards to Permeating Mass


No. Combat damage only happens from attacking and blocking.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:32 pm 
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Aww... there goes that idea. Still fun card is fun. I'm sure I'll find other ways to annoy people with it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:54 pm 
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Aww... there goes that idea. Still fun card is fun. I'm sure I'll find other ways to annoy people with it.

just give it first strike


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:19 pm 
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Oh, it'll never be top-tier, that's for sure. If I knew I could draw 4 copies of it though, I could very well build a casual deck around it. Hmm... that reminds me... do you think this could be a solid role-player in two-headed giant decks?


2HG seems reasonable. You only take "half" the turn off, since the teammate can help cover for you after you spend all your mana to cast this.
Then it can trigger from each opponent. So you probably don't get zilch the turn after you cast it, one of them should have a non-land.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:23 pm 
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I actually want Mind's Dilation. It'll be fun in Simic ramp.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:26 pm 
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Oh, it'll never be top-tier, that's for sure. If I knew I could draw 4 copies of it though, I could very well build a casual deck around it. Hmm... that reminds me... do you think this could be a solid role-player in two-headed giant decks?


2HG seems reasonable. You only take "half" the turn off, since the teammate can help cover for you after you spend all your mana to cast this.
Then it can trigger from each opponent. So you probably don't get zilch the turn after you cast it, one of them should have a non-land.


It seems lot of folks don't realize that about Wizards R&D. Not everything is designed for Standard.. a lot of cards are made for other formats, especially Commander, and Modern. There are a lot of cards that do serious work in 2HG that are pretty awful in 1v1. Another man's trash is another man's treasure.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:17 pm 
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felbatista wrote:
1. We got 8 Mythics in OGW (Linvala, Tentacle pr0n, Kalitas, Chandra, Nissa, Kozi, Tazri and Kozi's Return)

2. G&G are in one of the pictures posted in the confirmation thread, so they are confirmed.
Ah, you're right, I forgot Kozi's Return, for some reason I thought that was just rare. I can only assume they put that in for flavor reasons, though. Doesn't really make sense otherwise.

And, oh good, I like G&G

@WrightJustice: Like I mentioned, that is possible, but I believe they're going to have one or two emerge eldrazi of each color and that the green one will just happen to be a the mythic of that 'theme'.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:21 pm 
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Fwiw, Kozi's Return is about to get a lot more playable.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:22 am 
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Sir_Shadow wrote:
Card predictions for Mythics! But first, let's look at the numbers!

ORI: 10 Mythics
BFZ: 10 Mythics
OTG: 7 Mythics
SOI: 10 Mythics

All sets have at least 1 per mono color. Origins had 2 per color and the second was the DF planeswalker. BFZ had 2 colorless mythics, and we'll look at Multicolor in a sec. In OTG, Conflux had 1 in Tazri and actual Colorless had 1 in Kozilik which is what I think the design team was going for. On to SOI and multicolor:

When looking at Multicolors, I've noticed that as a whole, they try to keep an even distribution of colors across the entire thing without regard for the rarity of the card. Looking at multicolor cards in BFZ, we see on 4, on 5, and , , nd on 6. As a as far as mythics go in BFZ, white had none, nd were on one each, and nd were on 2/3. Why did White get hosed? I don't know, they didn't even have more mono cards than any other color. Maybe the design team knew there would be two white mythics (technically) in OTG?

SOI has a pretty even distribution in the multicolor (fun fact: there are only rare and mythic multicolor in SOI and it's an even split) with 3 for , 4 cards for , , nd , 5 for . has no multicolor mythics in SOI, nd have 2 each, and nd each have 3. I was kind of surprised blue had absolutely no Mythics, but hey they got Fevered Visions and Altered Ego. It's also possible that the design team knew that some fun multicolor mythics for blue (Gisa and Geralf / Tamiyo) would be coming up in EMN and judged accordingly.

That said, I think you cannot argue that there will be 1 mono color mythic for each color. Based on what we have spoiled so far (though maybe a little early to speculate as we still have some weeks) I'd have to say they are as follows:

Deploy the Gatewatch
The Gatewatch is a major theme they are pushing right now, so it just makes sense to me. We know Gisela is going to be in the game, so she could fit this slot, I just think that due to her Meld mechanic, she will be considered a 'special' one like Tazri.

Mind's Dilation
Really, only because it's the only one that's been spoiled. As much as I personally like this card, I'd much rather see a creature in the blue mythic slot this time.

Liliana, the Last Hope
Needs no explanation. This is pretty much 100% a sure thing.

Mirrorwing Dragon
Again, just the only one that's been spoiled and it looks sick, so that might just be wishful thinking on my part.

Ishakanah, Grafwidow
Yeah... just the only one revealed. We don't even have really any spiders in Duels so I hope this isn't what we get, or that the tribe get some big support with this expansion.

So of those, only White and Black are what I'd put money on. At minimum we get 2 more for total of 7 or as much as 5 more for 10 total. I think at minimum we get Gisela and Emrakul since we know Gisela is in and Emrakul is the flagship antagonist for the set, and if they slot Gisela into the White slot, then it's definitely gonna be Tamiyo because everyone has a hard-on for planeswalkers apparently. If Tamiyo does get in, she'll be the first 3 color card in Duels.

On the subject of Decimator, I think it's almost definitely in but as a 'special' slot. Emerge is their major keyword for this expansion and there's probably going to be a suite of colorless creatures, one or two for each color.

If we get more... I'd say Gisa and Geralf are definitely in. They're popular characters and blue had no multicolor mythics in SOI. Plus, it would support the zombie tribe which is Innistrad's bread and butter. Ulrich is also a strong contender for a special slot since werewolves could use more support.


Here's my take on it:

SOI:

Black: 1 Mythic (Mindwrack Demon), 5 rares
Blue: 1 Mythic (Jace, Unraveler of Secrets), 5 rares
Green: 1 Mythic (Ulvenwald Hydra), 5 rares
Red: 1 Mythic (Wolf of Devil's Breach), 5 rares
White: 1 Mythic (Archangel Avacyn), 5 rares
Multicolor: 5 Mythics, 5 rares
Colorless: 0 Mythics, 3 rares

Total SOI: 10 mythics, 33 rares

Mythics we didn't get from the paper set: Relentless Dead, Goldnight Castigator, Descend upon the Sinful, Startled Awake, Behold the Beyond, Geralf's Masterpiece, Seasons Past. 7 total. All monocolored.

OGW:

Black: 1 Mythic (Kalitas), 3 rares
Blue: 1 Mythic (Crush of Tentacles), 3 rares
Green: 1 Mythic (Nissa, Voice of Zendikar), 3 rares
Red: 2 Mythic (Chandra, Flamecaller and Kozilek's Return), 3 rares
White: 2 Mythic (General Tazri and Linvala, the Preserver), 3 rares
Multicolor: 0 Mythic, 3 rares
Colorless: 1 Mythic (Kozilek), 6 rares

Total OGW: 8 mythics, 24 rares

Mythics we didn't get from the paper set: Sphinx of the Final Word, World Breaker, Inverter of Truth, Mirrorpool. 4 total.

Based on Maro's comment on twitter, EDM contains 47 rares and 14 mythic rares. This number counts the flip sides of transform and meld cards as separate cards, keep that in mind. Out of these, 12 mythics have been spoiled already. 2 double-face mythics have been spoiled (Ulrich and Brisela). If there's no other DFC mythic in the set the number of actual mythic cards should be 12, just like in OGW.

If they follow the pattern from SOI, we'll get all the multicolored mythics and one monocolored mythic per color. My predictions are as follows:

White: Gisela is confirmed in, so Deploy the Gatewatch is out.
Black: Liliana is confirmed in, so Tree of Perdition is out.
Green: Depending on whether or not you count Decimator of Provinces as green, Ishkanah may be out.
Blue: Mind's Dilation or some unknown blue mythic.
Red: Mirrorwing or some unknown red mythic.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:01 am 
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Just spitballing here, but I think there is a real chance that Duels will miss out on Tamiyo.

What makes me think that?
-So far, Duels encourages newer players to build 2-colour decks. Tamiyo would be the only card in the pool that could not be included in a 2-colour deck.
-Tamiyo is another Planeswalker, and while Superfriends is far from being as dominant as Moss Ramp, it still is a popular claim as least favourite deck to play against.

Basically I think if Tamiyo os in, she has to be over Ulrich or Mind's Dilation; and while I hope she'll be included over the latter I have my doubts.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:52 am 
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I am absolutely certain Tamiyo will be in.

So far, the mythics we've gotten are either: 1) planeswalkers (we haven't missed out on a single planeswalker in any set), 2) story-relevant creatures (like the Eldrazi titans and Avacyn, being the "face" of the set) and 3) bomb creatures (Kalitas, Greenwarden of Murasa etc). We don't get many quirky spells or Johnny build-around cards, we missed out on Mirrorpool, Startled Awake, Behold the Beyond and stuff like that. The pattern is easy to explain in terms of what Wizards want Duels to be - a casual beginner product that introduces people to Magic. With that in mind I can confidently say we won't get Mind's Dilation, but we will get Tamiyo and Ulrich.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:56 am 
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GFTL wrote:
Sir_Shadow wrote:
Card predictions for Mythics! But first, let's look at the numbers!

ORI: 10 Mythics
BFZ: 10 Mythics
OTG: 7 Mythics
SOI: 10 Mythics

All sets have at least 1 per mono color. Origins had 2 per color and the second was the DF planeswalker. BFZ had 2 colorless mythics, and we'll look at Multicolor in a sec. In OTG, Conflux had 1 in Tazri and actual Colorless had 1 in Kozilik which is what I think the design team was going for. On to SOI and multicolor:

When looking at Multicolors, I've noticed that as a whole, they try to keep an even distribution of colors across the entire thing without regard for the rarity of the card. Looking at multicolor cards in BFZ, we see on 4, on 5, and , , nd on 6. As a as far as mythics go in BFZ, white had none, nd were on one each, and nd were on 2/3. Why did White get hosed? I don't know, they didn't even have more mono cards than any other color. Maybe the design team knew there would be two white mythics (technically) in OTG?

SOI has a pretty even distribution in the multicolor (fun fact: there are only rare and mythic multicolor in SOI and it's an even split) with 3 for , 4 cards for , , nd , 5 for . has no multicolor mythics in SOI, nd have 2 each, and nd each have 3. I was kind of surprised blue had absolutely no Mythics, but hey they got Fevered Visions and Altered Ego. It's also possible that the design team knew that some fun multicolor mythics for blue (Gisa and Geralf / Tamiyo) would be coming up in EMN and judged accordingly.

That said, I think you cannot argue that there will be 1 mono color mythic for each color. Based on what we have spoiled so far (though maybe a little early to speculate as we still have some weeks) I'd have to say they are as follows:

Deploy the Gatewatch
The Gatewatch is a major theme they are pushing right now, so it just makes sense to me. We know Gisela is going to be in the game, so she could fit this slot, I just think that due to her Meld mechanic, she will be considered a 'special' one like Tazri.

Mind's Dilation
Really, only because it's the only one that's been spoiled. As much as I personally like this card, I'd much rather see a creature in the blue mythic slot this time.

Liliana, the Last Hope
Needs no explanation. This is pretty much 100% a sure thing.

Mirrorwing Dragon
Again, just the only one that's been spoiled and it looks sick, so that might just be wishful thinking on my part.

Ishakanah, Grafwidow
Yeah... just the only one revealed. We don't even have really any spiders in Duels so I hope this isn't what we get, or that the tribe get some big support with this expansion.

So of those, only White and Black are what I'd put money on. At minimum we get 2 more for total of 7 or as much as 5 more for 10 total. I think at minimum we get Gisela and Emrakul since we know Gisela is in and Emrakul is the flagship antagonist for the set, and if they slot Gisela into the White slot, then it's definitely gonna be Tamiyo because everyone has a hard-on for planeswalkers apparently. If Tamiyo does get in, she'll be the first 3 color card in Duels.

On the subject of Decimator, I think it's almost definitely in but as a 'special' slot. Emerge is their major keyword for this expansion and there's probably going to be a suite of colorless creatures, one or two for each color.

If we get more... I'd say Gisa and Geralf are definitely in. They're popular characters and blue had no multicolor mythics in SOI. Plus, it would support the zombie tribe which is Innistrad's bread and butter. Ulrich is also a strong contender for a special slot since werewolves could use more support.


Here's my take on it:

SOI:

Black: 1 Mythic (Mindwrack Demon), 5 rares
Blue: 1 Mythic (Jace, Unraveler of Secrets), 5 rares
Green: 1 Mythic (Ulvenwald Hydra), 5 rares
Red: 1 Mythic (Wolf of Devil's Breach), 5 rares
White: 1 Mythic (Archangel Avacyn), 5 rares
Multicolor: 5 Mythics, 5 rares
Colorless: 0 Mythics, 3 rares

Total SOI: 10 mythics, 33 rares

Mythics we didn't get from the paper set: Relentless Dead, Goldnight Castigator, Descend upon the Sinful, Startled Awake, Behold the Beyond, Geralf's Masterpiece, Seasons Past. 7 total. All monocolored.

OGW:

Black: 1 Mythic (Kalitas), 3 rares
Blue: 1 Mythic (Crush of Tentacles), 3 rares
Green: 1 Mythic (Nissa, Voice of Zendikar), 3 rares
Red: 2 Mythic (Chandra, Flamecaller and Kozilek's Return), 3 rares
White: 2 Mythic (General Tazri and Linvala, the Preserver), 3 rares
Multicolor: 0 Mythic, 3 rares
Colorless: 1 Mythic (Kozilek), 6 rares

Total OGW: 8 mythics, 24 rares

Mythics we didn't get from the paper set: Sphinx of the Final Word, World Breaker, Inverter of Truth, Mirrorpool. 4 total.

Based on Maro's comment on twitter, EDM contains 47 rares and 14 mythic rares. This number counts the flip sides of transform and meld cards as separate cards, keep that in mind. Out of these, 12 mythics have been spoiled already. 2 double-face mythics have been spoiled (Ulrich and Brisela). If there's no other DFC mythic in the set the number of actual mythic cards should be 12, just like in OGW.

If they follow the pattern from SOI, we'll get all the multicolored mythics and one monocolored mythic per color. My predictions are as follows:

White: Gisela is confirmed in, so Deploy the Gatewatch is out.
Black: Liliana is confirmed in, so Tree of Perdition is out.
Green: Depending on whether or not you count Decimator of Provinces as green, Ishkanah may be out.
Blue: Mind's Dilation or some unknown blue mythic.
Red: Mirrorwing or some unknown red mythic.


Mythics and rares being 1 ofs and 2 ofs are really hard to build a good deck around in duels, so I believe, without wanting to start a big argument, that great Commons and Uncommons can and should be just as, if not more relevant in the future decks we hope to make (that is, unless the most popular deck is all about good-stuff, packed with with all the best mythics... Oh hang on, thats the case isn't it?)
Commons and Uncommons don't get as much hype, because of relative power level, especially for standard, but we play duels with rarity restrictions.
I would prefer getting great Commons to okish rares and mythics, because you can build a deck around a 4-of or even 3-of, 2-of is stretching it and 1-ofs only show up every 3 or 4 games on average.
Still I see people doing great Jobs of documenting patterns in mythic distributions along the last set and extrapolating theories on which and how many we get.
But lowly Commons and Uncommons get no such love...

This set has a few Uncommons I really hope we get, a few interesting rares and the mythics don't look that interesting at all (in a makes we want to build a deck with that card perspective).

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:00 am 
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Haven_pt wrote:
Mythics and rares being 1 ofs and 2 ofs are really hard to build a good deck around in duels, so I believe, without wanting to start a big argument, that great Commons and Uncommons can and should be just as, if not more relevant in the future decks we hope to make (that is, unless the most popular deck is all about good-stuff, packed with with all the best mythics... Oh hang on, thats the case isn't it?)
Commons and Uncommons don't get as much hype, because of relative power level, especially for standard, but we play duels with rarity restrictions.
I would prefer getting great Commons to okish rares and mythics, because you can build a deck around a 4-of or even 3-of, 2-of is stretching it and 1-ofs only show up every 3 or 4 games on average.
Still I see people doing great Jobs of documenting patterns in mythic distributions along the last set and extrapolating theories on which and how many we get.
But lowly Commons and Uncommons get no such love...

This set has a few Uncommons I really hope we get, a few interesting rares and the mythics don't look that interesting at all (in a makes we want to build a deck with that card perspective).


The discussion was about mythics, so that's what I looked at. If you want to look at commons, feel free to run the numbers yourself, I can't be arsed.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:03 am 
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Lol, I have no such inclination. Good job Btw. I'm just saying its alot of work to go to when all you get is 1 card (even if it is a really good card) for a 60 card deck...

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