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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:17 am 
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jedc22 wrote:
I don't know if this is the real Lili or not yet, but if it is, it's really rather situational...

Image


Erm...yea. I'd hope that isn't real. Following big Jace in terms of "Insert generic X colour abilities". The discard is ok, the -3 is pretty rough given that pretty much ends her, and that ult feels underwhelming.

In comes the "she's great if you do this" crowd, just not very exciting to me.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:19 am 
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On the plus side...

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:22 am 
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That lil is a bit.... meh.... I hope it's not real.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:28 am 
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jedc22 wrote:
I don't know if this is the real Lili or not yet, but if it is, it's really rather situational...

Image


Didn't a card like this get spoiled 2 weeks ago? That card was fake though.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:46 am 
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zzmorg82 wrote:
jedc22 wrote:
I don't know if this is the real Lili or not yet, but if it is, it's really rather situational...

Image


Didn't a card like this get spoiled 2 weeks ago? That card was fake though.

Yeah it's confirmed fake. I believe Liliana gets revealed in the middle of the week and nothing is really supposed to appear on weekends.
Turn Aside was spoiled yesterday by gameinformer and is kinda off regular scheduling (hence it being the only weekend card).

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:39 am 
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zzmorg82 wrote:
Didn't a card like this get spoiled 2 weeks ago? That card was fake though.


Previous faker one had "summon 50 zombies" instead of 13.
Still fake, still a crappy PW for that sweet, sweet Lili.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:49 am 
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Eh, I won't buy it til it's on mythic spoiler


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:42 pm 
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Gotta be a fake. How embarrassing would it be for them to have the PW featured in all the hype videos, one of the power 5, be outshined by a 3 color sidekick PW in the same set?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:53 pm 
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Gotta be a fake. How embarrassing would it be for them to have the PW featured in all the hype videos, one of the power 5, be outshined by a 3 color sidekick PW in the same set?


Like what happened with Jace and Nissa in the last two Sets?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:57 pm 
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felbatista wrote:
Gotta be a fake. How embarrassing would it be for them to have the PW featured in all the hype videos, one of the power 5, be outshined by a 3 color sidekick PW in the same set?


Like what happened with Jace and Nissa in the last two Sets?


Yeah, it's worth remembering that, for whatever reason, WotC believe that multiple color cards should be pushed more than mono colored ones.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:59 pm 
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DJ0045 wrote:
felbatista wrote:
Gotta be a fake. How embarrassing would it be for them to have the PW featured in all the hype videos, one of the power 5, be outshined by a 3 color sidekick PW in the same set?


Like what happened with Jace and Nissa in the last two Sets?


Yeah, it's worth remembering that, for whatever reason, WotC believe that multiple color cards should be pushed more than mono colored ones.


They believe that because it's the right thing to do. Multicolored cards should be more powerful than monocolored cards.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:00 pm 
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Because it's 'easier' to play mono-color cards reliably? Kinda makes sense to me.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:12 pm 
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I would use the fake Lili, but mostly for her -3 as a Barter in Blood. I, too, would be disappointed with this power level from someone called "the last hope."

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:14 pm 
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felbatista wrote:
DJ0045 wrote:
felbatista wrote:

Like what happened with Jace and Nissa in the last two Sets?


Yeah, it's worth remembering that, for whatever reason, WotC believe that multiple color cards should be pushed more than mono colored ones.


They believe that because it's the right thing to do. Multicolored cards should be more powerful than monocolored cards.

Well yeah. Tamiyo requires you to be Bant and basically nothing but Bant.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:17 pm 
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Sir_Shadow wrote:
Because it's 'easier' to play mono-color cards reliably? Kinda makes sense to me.


FWIW, I am not convinced that mono cards are easier to play. But multicolor cards do force specific color combinations, which may justify the added power. I can't do it right now, but I read a very interesting article on the subject a while back. The were talking about GG vs GW 2 drops, and why it was actually more difficult for a competitive deck to reliably cast GG cards (obviously or are easier to play than , but that's a false equivalence, you must compare to or ). Basically, they were going over the math, but I can summarize it here:

You need 20 G sources to run GG on t2 vs. 11 G and 11 W to run GW on t2. So on the surface it looks like the GG is slightly easier (it requires a 20 card commitment and the other requires 22). It isn't however, because say you run 4 GW dual lands, you know only need a total of 18 lands to meet the GW card's requirement (4+7+7=18). This would hold true even if you don't follow the hypergeometric distribution theories on how to build decks - and use some other method to build you mana bases, you'd still have some starting point and the dual lands would make GW cards easier than GG, or WW.

On top of that, the majority of the time you are going to run 2 or more colors, so the GG requirement is an even bigger deal, from the perspective of deck building. GG forces you into mono, or maybe dual color decks. GW is believable in 2, 3, and possibly even 4, or 5 color decks.

It gets even more obvious with a card that costs GGG, vs a card that costs GWU - just as an example.

I actually think WotC has it exactly backwards - but for the record the above is the entire reason I believe this to be the case, so if you don't buy into the logic, I unfortunately don't have much to add.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:23 pm 
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DJ0045 wrote:
Sir_Shadow wrote:
Because it's 'easier' to play mono-color cards reliably? Kinda makes sense to me.


FWIW, I am not convinced that mono cards are easier to play. But multicolor cards do force specific color combinations, which may justify the added power. I can't do it right now, but I read a very interesting article on the subject a while back. The were talking about GG vs GW 2 drops, and why it was actually more difficult for a competitive deck to reliably cast GG cards (obviously or are easier to play than , but that's a false equivalence, you must compare to or ). Basically, they were going over the math, but I can summarize it here:

You need 20 G sources to run GG on t2 vs. 11 G and 11 W to run GW on t2. So on the surface it looks like the GG is slightly easier (it requires a 20 card commitment and the other requires 22). It isn't however, because say you run 4 GW dual lands, you know only need a total of 18 lands to meet the GW card's requirement (4+7+7=18). This would hold true even if you don't follow the hypergeometric distribution theories on how to build decks - and use some other method to build you mana bases, you'd still have some starting point and the dual lands would make GW cards easier than GG, or WW.

On top of that, the majority of the time you are going to run 2 or more colors, so the GG requirement is an even bigger deal, from the perspective of deck building. GG forces you into mono, or maybe dual color decks. GW is believable in 2, 3, and possibly even 4, or 5 color decks.

It gets even more obvious with a card that costs GGG, vs a card that costs GWU - just as an example.

I actually think WotC has it exactly backwards - but for the record the above is the entire reason I believe this to be the case, so if you don't buy into the logic, I unfortunately don't have much to add.


When you say "monocolored cards", you're including cards that cost XC. We weren't talking about the same thing.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:25 pm 
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felbatista wrote:
Gotta be a fake. How embarrassing would it be for them to have the PW featured in all the hype videos, one of the power 5, be outshined by a 3 color sidekick PW in the same set?


Like what happened with Jace and Nissa in the last two Sets?


Lol, basically true. Although Big Jace in my eyes is better than this alleged Liliana who's supposed to save everyone from the eldrazi invasion.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:26 pm 
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felbatista wrote:
DJ0045 wrote:
Sir_Shadow wrote:
Because it's 'easier' to play mono-color cards reliably? Kinda makes sense to me.


FWIW, I am not convinced that mono cards are easier to play. But multicolor cards do force specific color combinations, which may justify the added power. I can't do it right now, but I read a very interesting article on the subject a while back. The were talking about GG vs GW 2 drops, and why it was actually more difficult for a competitive deck to reliably cast GG cards (obviously or are easier to play than , but that's a false equivalence, you must compare to or ). Basically, they were going over the math, but I can summarize it here:

You need 20 G sources to run GG on t2 vs. 11 G and 11 W to run GW on t2. So on the surface it looks like the GG is slightly easier (it requires a 20 card commitment and the other requires 22). It isn't however, because say you run 4 GW dual lands, you know only need a total of 18 lands to meet the GW card's requirement (4+7+7=18). This would hold true even if you don't follow the hypergeometric distribution theories on how to build decks - and use some other method to build you mana bases, you'd still have some starting point and the dual lands would make GW cards easier than GG, or WW.

On top of that, the majority of the time you are going to run 2 or more colors, so the GG requirement is an even bigger deal, from the perspective of deck building. GG forces you into mono, or maybe dual color decks. GW is believable in 2, 3, and possibly even 4, or 5 color decks.

It gets even more obvious with a card that costs GGG, vs a card that costs GWU - just as an example.

I actually think WotC has it exactly backwards - but for the record the above is the entire reason I believe this to be the case, so if you don't buy into the logic, I unfortunately don't have much to add.


When you say "monocolored cards", you're including cards that cost XC. We weren't talking about the same thing.


I know, that's why I included the explanation. I wanted to make sure we were on the same page, because otherwise were talking cross purposes.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:30 pm 
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It's worth noting that WotC also pushes cards that cost XCC and such. Much like new Tamiyo couldn't cost 3U, Liliana of the Veil couldn't cost 2B.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:32 pm 
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felbatista wrote:
Gotta be a fake. How embarrassing would it be for them to have the PW featured in all the hype videos, one of the power 5, be outshined by a 3 color sidekick PW in the same set?


Like what happened with Jace and Nissa in the last two Sets?

This Liliana is just a random pic on imgur though and I have no clue what source this is from. Reddit doesn't even care about it and there's no discussion about it being possible either.

The name and art are clearly correct but it seems like another random mock up put directly to imgur.

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