@DJ I'm done conversing with the liquored up brick wall.. goodnight.

@Marnel: Gisela? God help us all.. she's gonna be the Archangel or Tithes replacement.

Sweet! Something to look forward to!

Thank you kindly for the reply!


elk

@Elk they're reprinting Dawntreader Elk.

Source: http://magic.wizards.com/sites/mtg/file ... cxxs24.jpg

Incidentally our Planeswalkers for this set are just Lily and Tamiyo yeah?

I'll read through it tomorrow, but from what I can tell, I don't think much I've said would change. Tamiyo is just a better card than Jace most of the time, it's also cheaper for what that's worth (and possibly not worth playing in duels thanks to our crappy mana, which I mentioned earlier today). /shrug

You guys are talking about midrange,superfriends and control decks with tamiyo. This planes walker would be fine in those decks but this is an aggressive walker for an aggressive deck. She's like edric who is insanely good. You target your creatures and tap there guys to get through. This is where the card really shines now she can see play in the cute tap ur guys and give your guys the ability so they won't want to attack her but she is an aggressive styled walker.

Honestly, Tamiyo's ultimate is too situational. By the time you can play it, if you're still having mana issues, there's probably something wrong with you're deck. Honestly, I can't think of a situation when I would want to play everything in my hand. There is too much removal for me to want to drop a ton of creatures at once, and if I'm going for control, my hand is so reactionary, that there's almost no way that I'm going to be in a situation where I need to. Really, it's more of a ramp mechanic where it allows me to play a huge Eldrazi on turn 8 (I'm just gonna assume I have an Oath of Gideon out). I'm not saying it's bad, just that it's very niche. But hey, her entire kit promotes being in a creature-heavy deck or one with token support, so that's not a terrible thing. I could see her doing very well in a solid clue deck.

But comparing her to Big Jace....? There is never a situation where I do not want Big Jace's ultimate--it's just THAT good; it can win games by itself--and for me at least, the card draw is just better since it allows me to scry and there's no risk involved or question if I can actually use it. Bottom line, you can put Big Jace in almost any deck that runs blue and he will help you.

As for Tamiyo? I'll just say that I don't think Tamiyo can perform in a control deck. She might be a Superfriend, if only because most superfriend decks will typically have tokens running around and she can stall opponents fairly well if you need her to. The ultimate with Superfriends isn't going to be that useful, typically, because you've got Oath of Nissa. I think she'll shine most in a creature-clue deck where you can use your mana to draw with clues and then play whatever you draw into without worrying about what colors you have available.

@peepy: I think the issue is that you're probably not going to see 3-color decks that can be aggressive successfully... Maybe if you only splash blue you can pull something off.

Being able to cast anything for free is not niche. Anyways, Tamiyo is everything you could want in a walker: provides advantage, can defend herself (not only her -2 but her +1 can discourage attacks) and a game winning ultimate. Definitely bonkers for Bant tempo. So far I'm thinking:

Spells
3 x Essence Flux
2 x Declaration in Stone
2 x Always Watching

Creatures
2 x Sylvan Advocate
3 x Duskwatch Recruiter
2 x Skyrider Elf
2 x Bygone Bishop
2 x Thalia, Heretical Cathar
2 x Tireless Tracker
3 x Reflector Mage
3 x Bounding Krasis
3 x Whirler Rogue
2 x Woodland Wanderer
1 x Gisela, the Broken Blade
1 x Archangel Avacyn

Planeswalkers
1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 x Tamiyo, Field Researcher

The cuts were Kiora, Bellower, Nissa and one Skyrider Elf. Gains are Tamiyo, Thalia and Gisela.

Cutting Kiora was a harder decision than I thought it would be - she may be the worst walker in the game, but she was super useful in this deck. Still, Tamiyo is clearly better and I'm inclined to trade walker for walker than cut creatures from a creature deck.

Nissa was always going to be one of the first cuts, and Giselayer Angel was always going to make the deck: easy trade there. Gisela is stupidly good, but with Always Watching up too... either she gets removed or she likely wins the game on her own.

Thalia, assuming we get her will overtake Tracker as the premier 3 drop in the game, giving you a massive boost in tempo advantage. I took out Bellower, choosing to lower the curve slightly and a Skyrider Elf. Testing will decide whether Bellower comes back in and two elves go, but that is dependant on the new meta and how much I need the evasion.

How often do you need to cast something for free at a point in the game where you could reasonably have her emblem? Really think about it. You can't build a deck around the ultimate ability of a one-of planeswalker. If you can get her there, it's really just making you win MORE than you already are. Not many decks will actually benefit from it, because you have to build your mana base assuming you'll never get it anyways. That's why it would be good in a ramp or creature deck like you have here and like I suggested.

If you have something like a draw spell or a clue machine it is possible that casting for free might be really good.
plus you get to make plays and animate manlands in the same turn..free awakened wrath,then attack wuth both lumbering falls gg.

The deck posted above w/ the 26ish creatures is pretty bad.

Wow, tested it already?

I can get both sides of the Tamiyo argument here. So lets identify 2 key issues:

1. She has to (at minimum) be in Bant colours. Luckily, Bant is one of the tri archetypes that can get away with supporting early-mid tempo aggression that Tamiyo is clearly made for. Where I do see a problem with this, is it's the only archetype she can truly excel in. Bant Control isn't amazing, and I'm not sure if we have a combo deck in those colours. Would she work in 5 colour decks? Absolutely if you can hit ult, but those decks have their own problems that a turn 4 Tamiyo won't address over their current turn 4 options. Any later than that, your mana is probably already fixed by the time she ults.

2. Her ult being "niche" in some decks. The only archetype I can think of that literaly goes top-deck mode on purpose is aggro, be it White or Red. Therefore, how can casting spells FOR FREE ever be bad if you can keep up that instant speed removal/pump/counter/whatever else you have? Aggressive decks don't run many lands right? What if you didn't have a 2nd source of either W/U/G that you needed to play both your cards and win? This facilitates that. This is where it's such a shame she's been crammed into Bant, 4 and 5 colour. Sure, I could splash Green sources in Jeskai and Esper Control to run her for the ult, but that destroys any reliability to cast her on a turn I'm likely needing to use for a counterspell or sweeper. Against aggro with pump available to kill her and 3 creatures, she still contributes at best a 2 card draw for dying just to +1. That's why she belongs in the niche Bant has atm.

She isn't a bad walker. She is like Kiora on steroids (ironic since she fits the same deck) and basically replaces her for most of what Bant tempo wants to facilitate. She is a game changer/winner/auto-include in her archetype, and so-so everywhere else. More than can be said for Arlin, who is so-so in her archetype and poor everywhere else. I think those who are poo-poo'ing her and doing what I did on first inspection and thinking "these abilities are great" before seeing the mana cost.

EDIT: If Sjok's deck above had Wingmares in it, that would be the new cancer deck for me to face. Turn 6 until board wipe? GG.

I've never had much time for Vryn Wingmare, preferring the raw stats that I usually get off Skyrider, but imagine this: T2 Recruiter, T3 Recruiter flips play Wingmare (ensures they can't Radiant Flames), T4 Thalia... obviously that's a dream play, but the addition of Thalia does give credence to rethinking my stance on Wingmare.

Stats can be removed. From my perspective, not being able to play a damn thing before death would be the more frustrating part. Almost like a certain 4cmc Green sorcery spell that got removed...

hmm, now that Nahiri has escaped Innistrad should she be considered a threat to the Multiverse? And more importantly was Nahiri summoning Emmy to Innistrad part of Bolas' plan?

Garren_Windspear et all,

The release date has not been shared yet. Should be this upcoming week.

Kryder out...

Well she's put Sorin on ice (stone), and he's probably one of the only PW's along with Ugin to present a threat level anywhere near Bolas. So...maybe?

So, regarding Tamiyo...

1) My initial thought was Bant Midrange with Tutelage backup. You throw a couple of dudes out, try to control the board, and drop a Tutelage fairly early. 3-6 or so. Try to make it through with your dudes, if not, use draw (Jace, Elemental Bond, Tamiyo, etc.) and Tutelage to wear them down. Fog won't work with Tamiyo's +1, but if you need Fog you probably want her -, or her - might mean you don't need Fog that turn. Not even 100% sure Fog is a relevant piece, but I'm willing to consider it.

2) It's entirely possible to run Oath of Nissa and run Tamiyo only in a 1 or 2 colour deck, particularly if Lifespring Druid comes to play too. While I think her colours are perfectly acceptable for her + and -, her ult might do better in other colours. I could see, for example, GW with Druid and Oath (but not Oath of Druids) with Investigate or Bond to get a full hand and Oath of Gideon to get a 5 loyalty Tamiyo out to try and speed up her ult into a hand full of fat things. Preferably stuff like Decimator of the Provinces or Gaea's Revenge that has immediate impact before they can throw a sweeper.

3) As Babs points out, Tamiyo + Always Watching + (maybe) Gisela = dumb.

You guys keep throwing words like aggro, control and superfriends at each other as if it wasn't like most decks in Duels are creature-based midrange decks, an archetype where she shines. She's like the queen of the board stalls. I for one can't wait to target mine and my opponent's Advocate with her +1 to put my opponent in a really awkward spot.