yeah it's only a coincidence that it happens almost exclusively to men
the wage gap is real women's issue doe, trust me, I took gender studies

Stop projecting so much. They're bringing it up because you and many others clearly don't give a ****.

no, it's not a coincidence. what it is is a product of discrimination against women, because people refuse to hire them for low-skill manual-labor jobs, the sorts of jobs where injury and death are most common. if you saw even hiring practices between genders, you'd (probably) see even injury/death rates between genders.
I mean, it is, but if that's how you're going to approach it there's no real point in trying to convince you.

it's not that we don't give a ****, it's that we give more of a **** about the significantly more common problem of actual rape. false reports do happen, and they're a problem, but they affect a much smaller portion of the population, and they also affect a portion of the population that is otherwise much more powerful, so while it's an issue that should be addressed it isn't the most important one, and focusing on it actively detracts from a larger issue. I'm perfectly willing to admit that when I hear accusations of rape I immediately believe it until I see strong contradicting evidence, but that's because, lacking further information, odds are incredibly good that it's true.

(Imma pop a trigger warning here, just in case. read on at your own discretion.)

there's also the problem of why you'd falsely accuse someone of rape. there's no real financial incentive. there's no real gain of any sort. best case scenario, you're submitting yourself to intense scrutiny, mockery, and vilification, which will drag on for at least months if not years, all for what? just to hurt someone else? to ruin their life, even though you ruin yours in the process? do you think women are that petty? compare that to the incentive to actually perform rape. you get to have sex, which is enjoyable, the whole thing takes minimal time and effort, and odds are very good your victim won't report it and won't be believed if they do, so consequences of any sort are unlikely. purely on an incentives level, the decision to rape someone makes a lot more sense than the decision to lie about being raped, so I'm perfectly happy to always assume it happened until I'm shown otherwise.

mown wasn't saying anything about false reports, he was saying that door didn't give a **** about men being raped.

90%+ of work fatalities are the product of discriminatory hiring practices?
Prove it. Show me that it's because of discrimination and not e.g. different life values or lower qualifications.

You're right, there's isn't, because you have no ground to stand on. What are you going to do about it? Force women into slavery because they take more part-time jobs and men take more full-time jobs?
What are you going to do about the reversed wage gap for Americans below 30?


I was saying he didn't give a **** about (white) men in general. Because presidents are male!!!

Nice to know that you're anathema to our justice system.

Whether or not I think they are petty has no bearing on the fact that it happens. Good to know that this only concerns women though.
http://thoughtcatalog.com/janet-bloomfi ... ey-did-it/
Since you seemed curious. No, that's not a scientific article, and you're free to dismiss the claims or think of them as petty, whichever suits your fancy.

Whoa there, you almost convinced me to become a rapist.

Why is it that this seems to be the only issue that gets discussed? There's income inequality, education issues, gang violence and a host of other social issues, but it always seems to come back to just this one issue, why is that?

i guess because its hard to say that someone who was raped isn't a victim

mown knows that

Because we started talking about it first. Once everyone agrees to disagree on the topic, we'll probably start on something else. Unless someone says something hyper-offensive about one of those topics while discussing this one. But also probably because rape is an utterly confusing scenario with no good answers other than "support people who are or believe they are survivors."

I really wish I had something to add to this conversation but for the life of me I can't think of anything to add. So yeah keep on talking folk - it's been an interesting read.

false accusations are bad but it is important that rape be condemned as clearly as possible so that people feel comfortable seeking help, and talking about false accusations contradicts that goal.

no, of course not. the fact that they happen to men is, though.
and where would those "different life values" come from? perhaps patriarchic societal messaging? as for "lower qualifications"... that seems pretty easy to prove, if you'd like to try. while it's certainly true that, biologically speaking, men have somewhat more upper body strength, the limits of that strength are pretty rarely tested in low-skill manual labor jobs. they tend to be much more about endurance, which is something women tend to be better at, which means that there's no particular reason a woman wouldn't be equally qualified.
no. what? what are you talking about? "take"?
the what? I can't access the census data right now, but here's a thing that cites it and shows that men out-earn women in every single age group. less so among younger workers, which shows progress, but there doesn't appear to have been a flip yet. of course, that site concludes that it must be because pregnancies exist, instead of discriminatory wage practices and patriarchic messaging that insists that only women should sacrifice their careers to raise children, but that site's conclusion is largely immaterial to the point, which is that as far as I can tell no such thing exists.

yes, because men, especially white men, have more power and thus are in less need of protection. that doesn't mean that individual men can't be harmed or vulnerable, but it means that men as a class don't need the same sorts of systemic defenses.
turns out razorborne is not a court of law. you sound like the people who claim that telling them to shut up is a violation of their right to free speech.

sure, it happens. no one said it didn't. but does it happen with anything resembling the frequency of actual rape?

its time for RAGNAROKIO'S RIDICULOUSLY SIMPLIFIED HYPOTHETICALS HOUR

@razorborne: what would you do if a close friend of yours came to you crying saying he was falsely accused of rape and his life was being ruined

I mean, that's basically happened to me. the partner of one of my best friends started spreading rumors that he was abusing her. as for what I did, I stepped back from the situation and listened to both of them. in that particular case I knew the inner workings of the couple well enough to know that the picture she was painting was inaccurate, but I started from the assumption she was right and then set about trying to confirm or deny that. I actually withdrew from my friendship with him for a while while I worked out how I was going to approach it.

it also happened in high school, and I handled it significantly less well then, but I regret that and I would do things differently if I could change the past but sadly I can't.

as for what I'd do today if I didn't have enough information to answer either way... I don't really know. I don't know that I'd handle it the way that I think I should handle it. humans behave out of line with their beliefs all the time, but that's a moral failing on my part, not a flaw in my morality.

Internalized misandry.
Feminists come up with some nice terms.
also, lol, my browser recognizes misandry as a spelling error, but not misogyny. I guess the former doesn't exist :^)

In the sense that they are a byproduct.
Biology? Where does different physique and IQ distribution come from?

Perhaps, perhaps not.

I don't have to prove anything. I'm not making the assertion that the current situation is because of anything in specific. You are calling it sexist, which means you are stating there are sexist practices, which means you have to show me those sexist practices. Although if you want me to give you research on boys and girls showing different preferences even during extremely early development, then I can probably do that.
I don't know what all the qualifications for all the different jobs are. If you want to be a truck driver, experience with cars is probably an asset. *Men are on average more likely to have an interest in cars. There are therefore more men who apply to be truck drivers, and those who do have on average higher qualifications.* That is entirely speculation, but it serves as one of many possible examples.

Okay, let me rephrase it, since I made a small mistake.
Women are more likely to work part-time jobs and men are more likely to work extra time.

Looking into it, it seems to be concerned with specific bachelor degrees, and not the age group as a whole. I guess I learned something.



The people that are disproportionately more likely to be prosecuted for a crime are in less need of protection.
The people with the highest likelihood of being subject to serious assault are in less need of protection.
The people with highest suicide rate and lowest life expectancy are in less need of protection.
The people that are more likely to die are in less need of protection.
Nice.
At least I can take solace in knowing that the American president is a man.

Turns out that the problem with false rape accusations is people with that attitude ruining the lives of innocent people.
You sound like the people who say false rape accusations are a good thing because it gets us to talk about rape, so what?
I've already outlined ways in which silencing tactics are being utilized, and none of them are people saying "shut up because muh feels."

I don't know. Probably not. Is the frequency of something the only metric for justifying attention? Why did you bring it up? Did you just want me to call women petty?

I've always felt that real problem with addressing these issues is recommending fixes "as a class" rather than towards individuals. It reinforces the idea that whole groups of people are the same, which reinforces the stereotypes that are the roots of the problem.

Yes, the class/race is being oppressed, but can't we be a bit more imaginative in our solutions than creating blanket and conformative policies or solutions? Probably not because it would be terribly difficult to manage and would rely on individuals reporting poor behavior...and society doesn't have the best record when it comes to disagreeing with the group.

Privilege is a superpower. It can make you a superhero or a supervillain, depending on whether you use it to help those who don't have it or to oppress them.

I have been ruminating on this point for a long while now, because I noticed it in myself a while back, due to a series of arguments with a friend in the meat.* I have taken to borrowing a phrase from a game I've never actually played and saying "What is man? A miserable little pile of contradictions."

Not that this absolves me of my failings, but I have accepted that, at least for me, I will not act in the heat of any moment in the ideal way I would like to, and that I shouldn't hold myself up to the unachievable ideal. I have tried, though it is coming more slowly, to extend that same courtesy to others whom I judge.

I apologize for the digression, but it was something I felt I needed to say.


*"in the meat" being a phrase borrowed from Serial Experiments Lain, roughly equivalent to "irl" or "meatspace" (the opposite of "cyberspace")

a while ago i used meatspace a lot and then i realized no one knew what meatspace meant so i stopped

omggggggggg meaaaaaaaaaat what if the meat is raped why havent you talked about meatrape

are you drunk