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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:55 pm 
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I don't really want them all. I just want specific things. In fact, I would be significantly happier if they removed 75% of the cosmetic options from the game because it would make getting things you actually want from the game easier. And I don't think it's ridiculous to complain about a company putting an intentional grind to mess with the user experience to intentionally push microtransactions in a full price retail game. This "it's just cosmetic you don't **** need it" mentality a lot of people seem to have doesn't make sense to me, because I don't really get why I can pay $60 for a game and then it's okay for them to lock a massive part of the user experience behind a very large grind intentionally designed to be miserable if you want a very specific item from it.

The phrase "to get them all" is useful for complaining about the grind, but I feel like I may have misrepresented the problem a bit. Give me a second to come up with a better way to phrase this.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:25 pm 
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There are about 300 to 400 common items (sprays), 300 rare items (skins and player icons), 170 epic items (emotes, skins, and victory poses), and 84 legendary items (skins) that you can get out of any specific loot crate. This makes up about 800 to 900 items you can get out of them. A VERY large number of these are not anything anyone is going to really want or use, and it's effectively a massively bloated system on purpose to intentionally "lengthen" the grind to get ANYTHING you do want.

The worst part of this grind is player icons. There are about 300 rare items possible from loot crates, and you can't craft any of the 120 player icons. Since it takes about 1.5 to 2 hours to get a loot crate if their servers cooperate, the odds of getting a specific player icon you want is slim to "never going to happen" unless you drop money on the game. Like.... I should actually calculate the odds. At 4 items a crate and likely 1.25 rare items per crate, how long would it take someone to get a specific uncraftable rare item from the pool? With duplicates being a thing? That's something like 1 in 300, 5 times every 4 crates (yes I know the odds of getting a second rare item per crate is about 1 in 4). That's... not good.

Taken further, the odds of you getting anything you specifically want in particular is very very poor, and you will have to get well past level 50 to start getting enough duplicates to be able to get ANYTHING you want without getting super lucky. Also being honest, most people don't even like all the characters so most of the "loot" is worthless if it's someone you don't plan to ever use. So a large amount of the game is people leveling up to get very few things they want and never getting the profile icon they want because those intentionally can't be crafted.

And a lot of the items are obvious "bloat". As in it is my honest opinion that they could remove over half the items in the game and barely affect it in a negative way. These items basically exist to increase the number of items in the pool to make it harder to get the "cool stuff", not because that one character needs another item very similar to one they already have.

It's basically a cluster****ton of crap designed to be a massive grind because they couldn't figure out another way to milk the game for money. And no, it's not just cosmetics. Large parts of the UI were designed around these items being a thing, to intentionally put this crappy system front and center so that you can't "ignore" it. In fact, the entire "leaver penalty" thing is solely tied to this system, and yet it works because so much of the **** game emphasizes this crap that that is actually a problem.

I wouldn't care if the game was free to play. I wouldn't care if the game wasn't intentionally trying to annoy the **** out of me. But since a third of the experience is tied into these things, and I paid $60 for the game, I think it's something worth complaining about. The number of people saying otherwise is just a symptom of the constantly lowering standards we've been experiencing because that's just the way the industry is going.

Edit: Don't think I put that that much better but it's at least a bit more coherent.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:31 pm 
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We're going to fundamentally disagree, with no middle ground. I don't think you should get what you 'want'. Its a cosmetic system, when you can get what you want fairly easy, everyone ends up looking the same and its all rather meaningless. I like the pot luck approach, meaning that for most players there will be significant variation in the skins, sprays etc you encounter in a game.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:38 pm 
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There is middle ground. I think the system should exist in some form, because they probably do need some form of microtransactions. Just not the current one. It would actually be better, imo, if they removed the ingame currency but made duplicates impossible. Would still take upwards of 500 hours to get everything and force variety if that's valuable, but you would at least feel like you are making progress towards some of the rare crap (although minute).

-----------------------------------

I can't believe I forgot to mention my #1 issue. Right now it sounds like every time new cosmetics come out they are just going to throw it into the already overbloated pool instead of letting you get the stuff another way. That's MUCH worse if they don't figure something else out.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:49 pm 
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Sounds like you want the Halo 5 system. Hugely bloated pool of cosmetic items ranging through helmets, armour, icons, poses, weapon skins, and visor colours with each update further bloating it. But no repeats.

Also you know, actual power weapons and vehicles also drop in the boxes, which makes it p2w. So that's bad.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 4:04 pm 
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Elijin wrote:
Sounds like you want the Halo 5 system. Hugely bloated pool of cosmetic items ranging through helmets, armour, icons, poses, weapon skins, and visor colours with each update further bloating it. But no repeats.

Also you know, actual power weapons and vehicles also drop in the boxes, which makes it p2w. So that's bad.


Yes. Halo 5 has a bad system too. Are you suggesting p2w is the only alternative? If you are not, I don't understand the point here.

----------------------

A simple thing that would make people (not me but the vast majority of people) care a lot less is if they made player icons craftable. This is the #1 complaint about loot crates, by a lot. Even if they cost a ridiculous number of credits. After some point, even if it's level 200, everyone who has been playing for a while will look the same anyways (your main complaint). Unless we want to imply every single person wants the peanut butter jar as their avatar, there is no reason with 120 different options that they shouldn't make player icons craftable, even if for a ridiculous number, other than that the grind MUST be longer to get exactly what you want, when the thing is already so long already.

It doesn't actually take a lot to improve the system. Very small things could be done that would greatly improve it. I am sure there is tons of middle ground we could find SOMEWHERE where this thing doesn't have to be as bad as it is in every single way possible.

Edit: Or they could just let you pay $5 per item. People would care less that way too, although I would not prefer it.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 4:11 pm 
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My main problem IS that the odds are going to get worse over time. They are going to add 2 new characters and thus like 50 new items in July. Probably a couple more times later this year. If they just put that stuff into the existing pool, even after only 5 characters, it's going to make the problem much worse. But if they don't then those items will be "too easy to get" I assume? The system is set up to become more **** up over time.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 6:08 pm 
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While I've fallen off the wagon, here's the other things I've been playing on PS4 (pc is just Hearthstone):

Megadimension Neptunia VII - For some reason I'm still buying each one of these. Um... awful awful rpg you should only buy if you've played the rest of them because it's basically a continuation of the story. It's "the best in the series" as far as gameplay goes.... but that's not saying much.

Just Cause 3 - I suck.

Fallout 4 - I still suck.

Spelunky - Spiders. Spiders everywhere.

Octodad - I would watch it on youtube instead of buying it.

Divinity Original Sin - This game is too hard for my sanity. Not like "Hey Jack is bad at the game." No that's fallout 4. This game is "Jack has done 100% of stuff and is stuck on two bosses and can't continue on the easiest difficulty" hard. My biggest gripe with this game is that there is literally no grinding possible. There is a finite amount of everything, and once you've killed something it stays dead. So it's not like I can go off and fight some knights for a while and Snorlax and Pikachu will still be there when I get back. It's just frustrating man...

Dark Souls III - \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ Do you even praise? \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/

Doom - Blowing up demons is fun. Single player good. Multiplayer the most imbalanced piece of crap I've played this year, multiplayer-wise (since it's out of like 4 games that's not saying much, but no this multiplayer is really badly balanced).

Uncharted 4 - I think it's as good as Uncharted 3. 2 is still better. <- Only real complaint is that every big fight feels like it went on 2-5 minutes longer than it should have. But there's not that much that stands out and makes me go "Wow. This is the new Uncharted 2." It's just an 8/10 you know? Hit's all the right buttons and looks better but the story is meh and it didn't really excel that much past 2 or 3.

Overwatch - Fun as ****. Only reason I'm on computer is because Blizzard's servers are ***.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 7:06 pm 
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I don't understand your insinuation about p2w. I was mentioning it as 'Halo packs have their downsides' not as a 'this is how it should be done'. That said, the p2w elements and the cosmetic unlocks being discussed are totally different. You get 2 permanent (cosmetic) upgrades per pack, then a bunch of single use power up cards. There is no need for them to go hand in hand as you're implying.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 7:11 pm 
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So that's who started that bs?

Doom multiplayer has those. I don't like them. That and the demon rune. The demon rune is absolute, 100% bs.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 7:25 pm 
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I would give Dark Souls 3 a 7/10.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:39 pm 
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Things Wrong With Dark Souls 3:

- The enemy drop rates are lower across the board, with some items feeling like I'm farming Darkwraiths for slabs all over again. Never farmed a Darkwraith for a titanite slab in Dark Souls? It's one of those things where you are probably better off going to NG+ instead. That's how getting some of the items in Dark Souls 3 feels, even with a **** ton of item discovery. I don't understand how some items need to have a microscopic drop rate to the point where the only people who will ever actually get them are people who google it. The saving grace here is that the vast majority of the items in Dark Souls 3 are useless.

- The vast majority of items in Dark Souls 3 are "useless". The only reason to use them is because #FashionSouls. <- That being said if you want to cosplay as Solaire or can't get the Blade of the Darkmoon Covenant to work you are in for quite the treat. *stares the stare of 30 concords and shivers*

- Poise is non-existent for players and overpowered for enemies. No really. You know that stat that even has a ring dedicated to raising it? Does absolutely nothing at all. The game lies when it tells you it does something. Don't believe me? Test Full Havel's vs the Deprived set. It's freaking obvious.

- Physical Defense; not strike, slash, or thrust but actual physical defense; only mitigates damage from slugs. Literally useless against any other enemy, which all do strike, slash, or thrust. The more you know *watches rainbow fly by*.

- Magic is ***. A melee character at the same level will always be better than a mage until you are WAY out of normal pvp range on the high side, at which point your melee character is going to start putting levels into magic anyways. The number of levels required to get anywhere in magic makes it a massive pain for anyone but the most experienced players to use at all on NG, and even then those people know they are handicapping themselves a little bit. To add insult to injury, magic is so SLOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwww in this game that you have to be really bad to get hit by an invader using it, meaning it's almost useless outside of utility spells and pve even if you put the investment into using it. Just feels so bad to have so many cool things in the game and noone really gets to use them until NG+ without making the game way harder than it needs to be.

- Bosses are *** too. More on that in the next post.

- Covenants are *** this time around. They took out sin so blue bros are almost always sol, forcing people who want those items to actually farm 30 concords (O.O It's like farming 30 tit slabs in DS1). Purple bros basically end up red bros because no one trusts a purple bro. The bell bros basically got two covenants , and red bros work the same. And they removed the arenas. Big step back. Oh and the ganking. The endless ganking. You see this time around invasions prioritize worlds with multiple people instead of it being random. The intent was to make it harder for coopers but what it really did is make it the golden age of 4 people ganking some poor sod. Basically a lot people have stopped invading because so many invasions end up ganks that it's just miserable, not fun. Since the number of people in the way of the blue was already tiny enough, this basically put blue bros out of business. good job fromsoft. Meanwhile there are 4 covenants for invading the **** out of people and sun bros now even get rewarded by doing it. Meaning blue bros, the covenants that might as well not exist, are the only covenents that don't get heavily rewarded for invading people. AND invasions are STILL dying off a bit at a time. That's how bad the ganking is because invasions prioritize ganks.

- Game is too easy.

- There are 3 poison swamps.

- The jailers suck.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2016 11:14 pm 
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Insulting Dark Souls 3 Bosses


Come at me dlc.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:22 pm 
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@__@

I'm glad to see you back, mjack, but... I don't know how much of those I should link in the OP.


Also, while I have not played and seen very little of Overwatch, I am more of the opinion to look down on the game and the developers (well, publisher more than the developers, but still) for including microtransactions on release day for a $40-60 game. I am a big follower of Jim Sterling and TotalBiscuit, there's no way I would be in favor of that.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 5:09 pm 
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In the current format of these style of games needing servers and maintenance, and also wishing to expand, something needs to change. Could Blizzard be doing it slightly better? Maybe. But so long as its entirely cosmetic crap, these are the models which are going to make these games sustainable. Economies evolve, yet as gamers the popular opinion is that in spite of needing 100 times more servers to exceed demand, and our harsh views on DLC, that payment models should be frozen as it was in the 90s, when literally nothing else about the service or industry has.

While there could be better methods of applying these changes in the future, this is what we have now.
Essentially, gamers need to grow up and take an economics class.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:03 pm 
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Okay. Let me try reviewing Overwatch again. *ahem*
----------
Spoiler


TLDR: The game is repetive as **** and has a tacked on F2P system but I wouldn't care if I hadn't spent more time troubleshooting the **** thing than playing it.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:13 pm 
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Elijin wrote:
In the current format of these style of games needing servers and maintenance, and also wishing to expand, something needs to change. Could Blizzard be doing it slightly better? Maybe. But so long as its entirely cosmetic crap, these are the models which are going to make these games sustainable. Economies evolve, yet as gamers the popular opinion is that in spite of needing 100 times more servers to exceed demand, and our harsh views on DLC, that payment models should be frozen as it was in the 90s, when literally nothing else about the service or industry has.

While there could be better methods of applying these changes in the future, this is what we have now.
Essentially, gamers need to grow up and take an economics class.


Found the bolded ironic given the context.

No um..... there is a middle ground between Blizzard's current system and no system at all. I think we have to accept SOME level of microtransactions in this kind of game given where they plan to take it in the future, but that doesn't mean we should bend over and take it no matter what they do. There's a big difference between selling extra content and lowering game quality so that you have extra content to sell. The former might be a necessity but Overwatch does enough of the latter that it should be dinged for it.

Again, I would not care enough to be posting if I could play the **** thing. Not sure where that $280+ mil went but it's not on working servers.

Edit: <- I keep complaining about the server problems because I don't expect pc's to necessarily always be able to work with the game, but if you have an open beta on ps4 and xbone than xbone's and ps4's on comcast and verizon should not be having issues connecting to your servers and only your servers almost a couple weeks after launch, especially when the issue was present in open beta. There's something really screwy going on when I'm trying to figure out how to port forward my router to allow it to talk to Blizzard's servers but everything else works ... well not perfectly but good enough for me (ps. it didn't work).


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:42 pm 
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@__@

I'm glad to see you back, mjack, but... I don't know how much of those I should link in the OP.


Also, while I have not played and seen very little of Overwatch, I am more of the opinion to look down on the game and the developers (well, publisher more than the developers, but still) for including microtransactions on release day for a $40-60 game. I am a big follower of Jim Sterling and TotalBiscuit, there's no way I would be in favor of that.


You shouldn't add anything to the op.

Overwatch should have some form of microtransactions. It's going to be releasing content "forever" for free and something needs to pay for that. The upfront cost pays for development of the game itself. The microtransactions pay for the next 10 years of gameplay-related content people will be getting for 100% free (I mean they are still pushing patches for Diablo II every so often).

I am probably not "back". The reality is that I only post every few months when something is particularly annoying the **** out of me, and I'm trying to stop even that. I'd rather just read everything once a week.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:04 pm 
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NGA isn't as fun without your reviews of random things, though.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 11:05 pm 
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There's nothing wrong with micro-transactions for purely cosmetic items.


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