I'm 5-1 with Valor Blues now. I kept rise from the tides for now

I love Oath of Gideon for token generation. Glad to see I'm not all alone.

Vessel of Ephemera, however, seems like too much mana for what it gives you, even spread over two turns. (though, note to self: see what that vessel does in a deck with Sigil of the Empty Throne.)

is Dauntless Cathar a consideration as a decent blocker and then later a cheap token? or is he just too weak against first strike to be worth it?

What about Retreat to Emeria? Is that just a poor man's Valor? Or is it worth doubling down?

and a crazy idea... Vryn Wingmare instead of Rattlechains to slow down PW and Prowess decks?

Delirious Spirits

Kind of sort of inspired by Barney's Fight Club deck. I am tired of getting rolled by walkers once I get past rank 30, so I thought I would try a fliers/counters deck to hate on the walkers. This deck has a little of the clue synergy that Barney's deck has with Illuminator and Expose Evil. Instead of Expose Evil I am using Press for Answers. This is maybe a bad idea, but I was hoping to turn on delirium for Topplegeist by adding more sorceries and the two Vessels. I have played a bit against the AI but not pvp yet. Seems like I always playing from behind but the evasion, blinking, and tapping pull me through. Suggestions welcome. Maybe I am chasing too many subthemes by going for spirits, delirium, and clues...?


Creature(17)
3 x Topplegeist
2 x Rattlechains
2 x Dimensional Infiltrator
3 x Erdwal Illuminator
2 x Bygone Bishop
1 x Archangel of Tithes
3 x Thunderclap Wyvern
1 x Archangel Avacyn

Instant(10)
3 x Essence Flux
2 x Disperse
3 x Spell Shrivel
2 x Scatter to the Winds

Sorcery(5)
2 x Declaration in Stone
3 x Press for Answers

Enchantment(4)
1 x Vessel of Ephemera
1 x Vessel of Paramnesia
2 x Invocation of Saint Traft

Land(24)
2 x Prairie Stream
6 x Plains
7 x Island
2 x Glacial Fortress
3 x Foundry of the Consuls
4 x Evolving Wilds

To view this deck go to: https://www.magicduelshelper.com/deckli ... 9c868c974c

Created using Magic Duels Helper: http://www.magicduelshelper.com

You are playing Vessel of Paramnesia to turn on Topplegeist? And you cut Reflector Mage to fit in that "combo"? I.....

Oath was my first choice for RftT sub, because it's 2 evasive bodies for 3CMC + Planeswalker boost. Seemed the smartest choice for available replacement options. Vessel was option 2, mostly for its instant speed option. Foundry is a great card in this deck, and vessel would provide the same net benefit of 2 instant speed flyers, but instead of having to hold up 5 mana in one pop, I can divvy it up and only need to spend 3 to crack it. Downside is it doesn't give me in the mean time.

I'm considering taking out St. Traft for Vessel. Traft has been total love/hate in testing with it so far - either it does something awesome or I want anything else in my hand - and there's been little in between those extremes.

In the end, I might cut St Traft, add back 1 RftT, keep the Oaths, and add 1 Vessel. Rise from the Tide is so epic when you can get a huge pump from it late game that I'm missing having it in the deck.

I don't like Dauntless because it's all sorcery speed. If I could trigger the token as an instant I might give it more thought - but currently I don't even want to use the more powerful Bygone Bishop as a 3CMC single body. This deck is trying to turn every spell that puts out bodies into Overrun with evasion instead of trample.

I've paired Retreat with Valor in decks before, and have a similar problem I'm having with St. Traft here - it's a love it or hate it card. If your opp is durdling, it's great to get the extra pump + body out of land drops with both Retreat and Valor in play - but if you're up against any kind of pressure it sucks and I'd rather draw anything else.

Wingmare was totally off my radar and I would have to give that more thought before saying for sure - but off the dome, I am loath to make my Valors and Fluxes more expensive.

How are Oath's tokens evasive? I'm pretty sure they're only dinky 1/1 Kors.

Was thinking it was same as vessel; hadn't cast it in testing yet. Not as good as I was thinking, but still pumps 2 and allows Gideon to ultimate on the drop without dying, so opinion on it otherwise unchanged.

RM is actually not a great card against walkers which was my central theme. It doesn't fly or have haste or flash.

But you are right the vessels are trash, so I will trim the vessels and one evolving wilds for the obligatory RM.

Update 1.0:

Delerious Spirits

Creature(20)
3 x Topplegeist
2 x Dimensional Infiltrator
2 x Rattlechains
3 x Erdwal Illuminator
2 x Bygone Bishop
3 x Reflector Mage
1 x Archangel of Tithes
3 x Thunderclap Wyvern
1 x Archangel Avacyn

Instant(10)
3 x Essence Flux
2 x Disperse
3 x Spell Shrivel
2 x Scatter to the Winds

Sorcery(5)
2 x Declaration in Stone
3 x Press for Answers

Enchantment(2)
2 x Invocation of Saint Traft

Land(23)
2 x Prairie Stream
6 x Plains
7 x Island
2 x Glacial Fortress
3 x Foundry of the Consuls
3 x Evolving Wilds

To view this deck go to: https://www.magicduelshelper.com/deckli ... 9c868c974c

Created using Magic Duels Helper: http://www.magicduelshelper.com

It hasn't done it's thing in the tournament cuz I haven't run into creatures but Displacer is bonkers and more reliable than topplegeist.

I like your idea of synergizing flash with counterspells like Rabble did with demonic flash. That's good fun

Mathematically speaking, the odds of 1 of three Valors and 1 of two Wingmares, and playing the Wingmare on turn 3 instead of holding that one for turn 5.... I can't compute this. But you know what I mean, he doesn't always have to be dropped ASAP, especially to disrupt 6-cost PW.
I've been running the Wingmare in my WG Renown deck. Occasionally it costs me 1 more to play Wildsize, but it seems an OK trade-off. You can feel the times he hits the board turn 3 and the opponent was expecting to play Explosive Vegetation turn 4. Oh the rage quitting, it's so satisfying. But I digress.

I tried three other changes last night....

1, I dropped Reprisal in favor of Celestial Flare. Yes, it's WW instead of 1W, I haven't noticed any problem there. But it's a better draw against white aggro decks. Seems like a real benefit.

2, swapped Reflector Mage into that spot where you were playing with Rise/Traft. A solid turn 3 blocker against fast aggro, and it's removal that trips Valor putting on even more pressure. Generally speaking, Traft was rather weak. In the end it's similar to only getting one turn out of Traft - you get one shot of Valor, and you have a 1-creature swing in the number of attackers/blockers on each side, but it can be more tactical.

3, I put in... brace yourself cause this may be stupid... Haunted Cloak. Haste for late-game - including things like Whirler entering play at 5/5 and then sitting there. Trample adds a lot of pressure. so it works. not entirely sure it fits the curve, though.

Consider it Reverse-Flash. Why do you want Haste or Flash for walkers? Because if they're prepared to block your 2 creatures with 2 of theirs, you suddenly have 3 to their 2. Well, Reflector simply means you suddenly have 2 able to attack to their 1. Same 1 difference, you get one more creature thru.
Oh it's not perfect - you could be throwing back something like a Sylvan Ranger, or you could open them up to be more willing to thru Planar Collapse - but it's not useless, particularly not when you compare to Flash/Haste options.

Celestial Flare doesn't seem like a bad idea. I do hate those games where Reprisal is effectively a dead card. I avoided it in initial building because of the cost, but thinking more about it- by the time an opp gets a creature out with 4+ power, I should be able to have (do want Gideon to be able to land T4 after all) - so it doesn't seem like it'd lose much speed over Reprisal. I think I'll test this change too.

Reflector Mage is interesting. Would be useful to bounce a flying blocker for 2 turns. St. Traft should go (I've coincidentally drawn it every test game since adding it - only once did it help me win, but several times I've wished it was anything else), so I think I'll put Reflector Mage in the test queue behind the vessel/RftT change I want to try.

Lol, I braced, but not hard enough. I don't think Cloak is worth the casting cost, and it does nothing for my side when cast. Don't think it's worth the trample/haste benifit. If I really want the haste, I'd rather make this Jeskai and use Thopter Engineers for that. Let me know how it works for you tho.

2 straight wins vs r40 monored madness and r38 rakdos control (good opponents with T2/T3 decks) with this deck brings me up to rank 38. I would have expected to tread water at r35 so better than expected so far. It pays to play your flash creatures on your opponents end step most of the time, playing Wyvern as a combat trick seems to always end badly.

HUMANDRAZI

I did not come up with this list. Credit goes to Atmadog https://www.reddit.com/r/magicduels/comments/4km9x2/atmas_may_deck_techhumandrazi_meta_analysis_data/

1 x Kytheon, Hero of Akros
1 x Expedition Envoy
2 x Hanweir Militia Captain
2 x Thalia's Lieutenant
2 x Knight of the White Orchid
3 x Consul's Lieutenant
4 x Topan Freeblade
1 x Reprisal
3 x Spatial Contortion
2 x Declaration in Stone

2 x Lantern Scout
2 x Eldrazi Displacer
3 x Reflector Mage
2 x Always Watching

2 x Thought-Knot Seer
1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

2 x Reality Smasher
1 x Archangel Avacyn

9 x Plains
1 x Island
1 x Wastes
2 x Prairie Stream
2 x Glacial Fortress
2 x Westvale Abbey
2 x Foundry of the Consuls
2 x Crumbling Vestige
3 x Evolving Wilds


I am still testing this deck. Its "A" game is unbelievably good, but it can really stumble on the mana requirements.

Blue and colorless add a lot to monowhite aggro. Reflector mage and spatial contortion help to get key creatures through for renown etc. White creatures are less powerful from 3-5 mana but the colorless creatures help the deck to curve out. TK Seer helps to protect against sweepers. And the displacer is purely broken even if you do not exploit the bug.

But yes, mana is an issue! What do you think about this deck?

I think at this point it just wants to be the kind of Bant/C list I'm running in the Showdown. Green both helps with the mana and brings better creatures than the white humans, and essence Flux probably outperforms the displacer in a majority of cases.

Otrisk for the benefit of others reading this discussion I am going to post your decklist here.
Creature(27)
2 x Hanweir Militia Captain
4 x Sylvan Ranger
2 x Sylvan Advocate
2 x Bygone Bishop
2 x Tireless Tracker
3 x Reflector Mage
3 x Bounding Krasis
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2 x Altered Ego
2 x Thought-Knot Seer
2 x Reality Smasher
1 x Archangel Avacyn
1 x Woodland Bellower

Instant(2)
2 x Essence Flux

Sorcery(4)
2 x Declaration in Stone
2 x Angelic Purge

Planeswalker(2)
1 x Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

Land(25)
2 x Prairie Stream
2 x Plains
2 x Island
3 x Forest
2 x Canopy Vista
2 x Lumbering Falls
1 x Hinterland Harbor
1 x Sunpetal Grove
1 x Glacial Fortress
1 x Wastes
2 x Rogue's Passage
4 x Evolving Wilds
2 x Westvale Abbey

To view this deck go to: https://www.magicduelshelper.com/deckli ... 96ac5b4c7e

Created using Magic Duels Helper: http://www.magicduelshelper.com

There are others like it I think in the Bant subforum. It's nowhere near optimal at any rate, didn't have the time to playtest quite enough before the tourney.

I've gone 4-0 online testing the following version, and am feeling pretty good about it since going 2-2 with previous changes. One of those wins was vs a 100 card deck so I don't know if I should count it, but one was vs a Planeswalker.netdeck. Just ignored the walkers and steamrolled with oversized thopters thanks to an on turn Valor, a pair of Rogues, a flux, and a Foundry. Opp dumped a languish early to Jace's oath that could have caused me problems, but never got a 2nd black source so it was moot anyways. That was my 1st PW matchup with V.Blues, but now I don't think it's as bad a matchup as I originally believed. All my creatures are innocuous individually, so spot removal is largely meaningless. Sweepers are a huge threat, but fortunately all (commonly played) but Radiant Flames require 2 of a color to cast which can be problematic in 4-5 color decks. Declaration in Stone can surely hurt, but having 3 dif token types and flux in a pinch helps mitigate the pain. Not to say I think I'm favored in the matchup (because yeah it was just 1 game), but I do think it's not quite as bad/scary as I initially thought.

Valor Blues 2.0

15 Creatures
1 x Kytheon, Hero of Akros
1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 x Hanweir Militia Captain
2 x Rattlechains
4 x Eldrazi Skyspawner
3 x Whirler Rogue
2 x Drowner of Hope

2 Planeswalkers
1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 x Jace, Unraveler of Secrets

6 Enchantments
2 x Vessel of Ephemera
1 x Oath of Gideon
3 x Valor in Akros

10 Instants
3 x Essence Flux
2 x Reprisal
2 x Gideon's Reproach
3 x Telling Time

3 Sorceries
2 x Declaration in Stone
1 x Rise from the Tides

24 Land
6 x Plains
6 x Island
2 x Prairie Stream
2 x Glacial Fortress
2 x Westvale Abbey
3 x Foundry of the Consuls
3 x Evolving Wilds


Changes from original: -2 Allied Reinforcements, -1 Rise from the Tides. +2 Vessel of Ephemera, +1 Oath of Gideon.

The instant speed pop of vessel has been valuable in testing. More evasive tokens to pump is good stuff too. Waffled on Gideon's oath, but settled on 1 copy. Decided against 2 because it's legendary and its tokens are ground based. Liking 2 Vessels more than 2 Oaths. In either case, I like both better than Reinforcements because they're cheaper ways to produce 2 bodies, allowing some opportunities to make additional plays that same turn. Downside is it takes a few spells away that could feed RftT, but I still think I have enough to support a single copy for long game shenanigans.

I've completely ruled out Invocation of Saint Traft. It's just not a good fit in this deck, and I blame it for 1 of the 2 losses in that last round of change testing.

Still waiting to live the dream of having all 3 Valors out. Next time I have the opportunity, I'm not going to pass it up, even if I have a better play and it ultimately costs me the game.

Yeah, I often play a 2nd or 3rd when there's clearly a better play. I can't resist. I think your changes look really good. I'm 6-1 with the old version but I'm already convinced this is better. You sure about Planeswalker Jace? I never play him when I have him.

I gotta remember to make these swaps. Thanks for the update. It's so much fun. I often get knocked down to one life versus twenty and pull off the win. Use your life like a resource if the guy doesn't have red, you need your creatures. I love it when the other side taps troublesome blockers

I feel you on Jace - he does take a back seat for better plays sometimes - but I still like running him in the deck. He's a good multi tool when you get to top deck stage. Nice to have options to bounce and replay a Rogue, move a blocker, dig for Valor, or just scrying past lands and drawing more ammo. If I could run another Drowner or Rogue, I'd prob consider subbing him for that, but I can't think of better options otherwise.