Did some testing.
(this is more aimed at anyone else whou would give it a shot)

The deck did good at about rank 40. I didn't keep track of the score, but I remember 4 losses out of about 15-20 matches, of which one was due to Duels refusing to -20pause the timer when I ask for it, so most of my counters missed timing and the deck was useless (but I would've won, I literally had them hang on one card and had 8 counter Jace backed up by counters. But since the game denied me counters...). 2 games I've lost to bad tempo against PW midrange/control and White aggro. Couldn't clean the board and/or establish control early enough. As you put it " You can have all the answers you need in hand and still lose the game if your opponent is one threat ahead of you."; exactly that. 1 game I've lost to out of nowhere Ulamog (they had 10+ lands and passed turn or two before, it was a topdeck) for which I didn't have a Celestial left in hand.

Do I like the deck? Very
I understand the inclusion of Celestial flare now. Playing around isn't as much of a problem as I thought it would be (but is something to be considered when deciding on keeping a hand, tutoring lands or scrying) and most of the time I can control their field to the point of forcing them to attack me with that one creature I can't reach with my other removals. With good planning, Declaration in stone isn't needed, and its sorcery speed becomes a big drawback. However, depending on the meta, it still is a potential inclusion in the future.
Adding Ob and Jace was on spot. At first it seemed to me that loss of Linvala would hurt, but with these 2 on board you get instant tempo. All our walkers can use their - abilities to net some significant advantage, enough to justify (almost) tapping out, therefore giving us constant card advantage and/or field control on each turn. I've ended games using only Vent backed up by Walkers, after a few turns of 2 Walkers and a Vent, opponent can usually just sit back and watch as we draw into more counters and win step by step.
Complete disregard is neat. Isn't auto-include, but helps using opponents' end phases to the maximum, capitalizing on their fear of us having the counter for their bomb, therefore helps us a lot in the long run.

The only change about the deck I dislike is addding Island instead of adding Swamp.
Math says that it is the right call, but often, much more often than I'm ready to, I've been lacking black source.
Why? Languish and Shambling vent. Both good cards, both important in certain matchups, both significant factor in keeping hands. And both require double swamp (counting Vent as one spent because we can't use it for its transformation). Sure, we can tutor it via Evolving wilds, but sometimes it's too slow. Languish on t4 against aggro is often worth to tap out, and the only problem is that . That being said, I'm probably testing
-1 Island
+1 Swamp
Maybe it's only me being subjective, but that's the only real problem I've had when piloting the deck.

Thank you for the great list to play and work with!

P.S.
Sorry for the long write-up, I tend to be exact and extensive while writing. Some people like it, some don't . ^^'

P.P.S.
I've just seen your log;
Avacyn has been...so so. Good, sometimes great. Good field control with significant board presence packed in one card, but far from a decent finisher.
Comparative analysis - I love it. It is poor early game, but it's one of the cards that supports our transition into late game the most. Fresh batch of cards helps a lot, and when paired with a Telling time, it's a blast. I have a feeling that drawing into bigger cards and sustainable lockdown hands would become more difficult.
Journal is sometimes neat, but doesn't pack the punch of a walker to justify the same horrible tap out...at least I feel that way, and felt so while testing it. But it's just me.
I've found Calculated dismissal to be great. Early to mid game it's instant counter (even so most of the late game if timed well), and scrying helps a lot, especially combined with Telling time or Analysis.

Dr. Johnny - I agree that tempo is the key. I keep moving my curve down and each time it gets better.

I redid the mana somewhat, I made enough changes I am just going to repost where I am now.

3 x Telling time
3 x Celestial flare
4 x Gideon's reproach
2 x compelling deterrence
1 x felidar cub

2 x Anguished unmaking
2 x Scatter to the winds
3 x broken concentration
2 x calculated dismissal

2 x Languish
2 x bone to ash
1 x gideon, ally of zendikar

2 x Planar outburst
2 x Confirm suspicion
1 x Jace, unraveler of secrets
1 x Ob Nixilis reignited

1 x Sorin, grim nemesis

4 x plains
4 x island
2 x swamp

2 x shambling vent
2 x sunken hollow
2 x prairie stream
2 x drowned catacomb
2 x glacial fortress
2 x isolated chapel
4 x Evolving wilds


I am all in on the conditionally untapped dual lands. It slows you down a little but this deck needs a lot of colored mana to function.

Average CMC is down to to 3.2.

There are a lot of individual changes I could discuss... but I am posting this mainly for reference.
The gameplan is to gain control of the board using board wipes and cheap spells like Gideon's Reproach, and then lock it down with counterspells / planeswalkers.

The Felidar Cub is in for testing... cute kitty. I have had too much trouble with enchantments.
Complete Disregard was quite disappointing. In theory it offers a lot more flexibility, in practice reproach would have worked just as well at a lower mana price. 3 mana Reave Soul is too expensive.

The mono white aggro matchup is not in a great place. If I get a board wipe I have a very good chance of winning, but I usually can't survive long enough to draw into one if it is not in my first 10-12 cards. White mixed with another color is a lot easier because they tend to opt for more expensive threats.

Edit to fix card names

The biggest confliction for me when building an Esper control deck is deciding whether I want many counterspells or cards that respond to threats on the board. In what direction do you all go? What specific cards or trends in the metagame lead you to decide which road to go down?

Here are the counterspells in the game. Which cards do you lean towards? (Please don't respond, "I play x because control deck because U").

4 x Dispel
3 x Horribly Awry
2 x Scatter to the Winds
3 x Broken Concentration
4 x Spell Shrivel
4 x Calculated Dismissal
4 x Abstruse Interference
4 x Countermand
4 x Bone to Ash
2 x Confirm Suspicions

Here are some of the & removal spells. Some of these cards seem to be the reason WB control is viable in standard (not countering rarity restrictions).
2 x Declaration in Stone
3 x Reprisal
4 x Puncturing Light
4 x Gideon's Reproach
4 x Celestial Flare
4 x Sheer Drop
4 x Angelic Purge

2 x Anguished Unmaking

4 x Bone Splinters
3 x Grasp of Darkness
4 x Reave Soul
4 x Murderous Compulsion
4 x Complete Disregard

Here are some "soft removal" in all the above colors.
4 x Disperse
4 x Expose Evil
4 x Dazzling Reflection
3 x Roil Spout

I went back and forth between 4x spell shrivel and 2/2 split with broken concentration. Ultimately, getting counters online is too important. If someone can squeeze down a 2 drop vs me turn 6, so be it.

The counterspells are easy to rank. I will give them a rating on a scale of 1 to 10. 10 doesn't mean the best in Magic ever, just the best in the format. Also these ratings are in the context of a control deck.

Scatter to the Winds 10. Cancel with an upside that is relevant in maybe 1 out of 10 games. It is relatively inexpensive and it is unconditional. The mana is a downside, but if you are playing blue in this planeswalker.deck format you should be playing counters.

Broken Concentration 9. Basically just cancel. In most decks you should run all three of these and both scatter to the winds before you run any other counters.

Confirm Suspicions 6. Big drop off in usability compared to the 3 mana counters so it is several points lower. But this is still a hard counter, and drawing three cards is a huge swing. Generally I think using this spell requires that you minimize the number of sorcery speed plays you make.

Spell Shrivel and Calculated Dismissal 5. Usable. The easy mana cost is a big plus. They work well enough in the early game but they become irrelevant rapidly. A control deck should never use these mana leak style counterspells as the center of its control. I ranked them equally because they both have rather minor advantages, I personally tilt towards dismissal. I think the best approach with these spells is to use no more than 1-3. I rate these higher than bone to ash only because they perform better by themselves and countering planeswalkers is critically important.

Bone to Ash 4. Drawing a card is great. You will find targets to counter. The problem is that you really need to be able to counter things like planeswalkers in this meta. Bone to ash is fine as a sprinkle but never a 4 of.

Countermand 3. A hard counterspell that can target everything is a hard counterspell that can counter everything. If we didn't have confirm suspicions I might rank this higher, but it seems pretty overcosted right now.

Horribly Awry 2. We are talking Esper control here with access to and sweepers, which work really well at killing the small creatures this spell targets. I dislike the lack of scalability. In a Mono or maybe type deck this card has more application.


Abstruse Interference - Dispel 1. These really do not belong in a control deck. Dispel is meant to protect your board presence (creatures). Abstruse is a 3 mana mana spike. Summoning a token is nice and all but mana spike is still mana spike, as weak as a counterspell can get.

Discussing the removal is way more complicated. I think Anguished Unmaking is a must-include in this meta due to the popularity of planeswalker.deck, it also helps a lot vs a number of different decks that run nasty enchantments.

I think Declaration in Stone is amazing in a vacuum. But in my control shell I have not felt it is at all necessary, and I do not want my opponent to draw cards. This card performs the best in an aggressive deck that does not care about card disadvantage IMO.

My go to removal has basically been Gideon's Reproach and Celestial Flare. Both have the advantage of being only two mana. The drawback is that your opponent must be attacking you. If you are playing against a control deck with a completely empty board, how often will you attack? Every creature, every turn will attack... only exceptions are Baby Jace and TiTI. Having a large number of instant speed removal spells is also CRITICAL due to the prevalence of man lands. I think the removal package I use is controversial... all I can say is try it for yourself.

Finally: Compelling Dominance / Disperse - incredibly flexible. They give you an answer to planeswalkers without requiring something stupid like a 4 mana sorcery speed aura. Can also be used to save your own stuff from removal. The value depends on how many counterspells you run. If you are at ~3-5 counterspells, you will often find yourself wanting to bounce something but not having the counter. If you are at ~7+ counterspells it will gain a ton of value. The version I am testing right now is at 11 and I ALWAYS find a use for disperse.

@divinevert - granted I think vs. aggro you do not need hard counters, you can shut them down early and they can't interact with your board. But I have a lot of games that go really, really long, and I would not want a 4 of that is almost a dead draw. I run 2 calculated dismissal as per my post above. I like your deck though and I will take it for a spin.

Spell Shrivel is never a dead draw. Even as they reach 8+ mana, they are typically trying to do things and drop things that Spell Shrivel can shut down. And in spots super late, adding +4 to a casting cost can quite painful to a deck anyway.

You are WAY underrating Horribly Awry and overrating Broken Concentration I think. Horribly Awry comes online at 2 and hits so much, from Woodland Wanderer to Kalitas to Slyvan Advocate....it enables turn 5 Horribly Awry + Comparative Analysis. Broken Concentration is great, but even though I skew blue, having UU by turn 3 can be tricky and restrictive on your keepable hands.

I also think you are underestimating Confirm Suspicions, which is a late game backbreaking play. It's an auto include as a 2x in any draw-go I'm building from here on out. It's everything you want: a hard counter, a draw spell, and a EOT mana sink.

I also think you are way underselling Declaration in Stone, which deals with absolutely everything, blows out any token strategy, and is cheap enough you can play it and potentially still have countermagic open behind it. Plus, decks have to slow down to crack the clue, and the slower games go, the more certain Esper is going to win.

My deck is something like 70-3 at this point. Alot of those are Rank 1s and probably don't count for anything, but the deck has about zero bad matchups if it survives to Turn 5, which is why early counters are so critical. It just durdles its way into card advantage lockdown.

Divine regarding your previous post: I did underrate confirm suspicions, but the other ratings require a more complex discussion. I think you can talk about cards in a vacuum but it makes more sense to discuss them in the context of a deck. Here is your list from the fight club website:

Creature(2):
1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 x Archangel Avacyn

Instant(22):
2 x Celestial Flare
2 x Telling Time
3 x Horribly Awry
2 x Grasp of Darkness
2 x Scatter to the Winds
4 x Spell Shrivel
2 x Anguished Unmaking
3 x Comparative Analysis
2 x Confirm Suspicions

Sorcery(6):
2 x Declaration in Stone
2 x Languish
2 x Planar Outburst

Planeswalker(4):
1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 x Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1 x Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 x Sorin, Grim Nemesis

Lands(26):
2 x Prairie Stream
3 x Plains
2 x Shambling Vent
5 x Island
2 x Sunken Hollow
2 x Swamp
2 x Glacial Fortress
2 x Isolated Chapel
2 x Drowned Catacomb
4 x Evolving Wilds


Deck comparison: (our decks)

The sweeper/planeswalker package is identical.
We both run 11 counterspells.
You run 6 targeted removal spells vs. my 7.
You run 5 draw/filter spells vs my 3.
You run baby Jace and Avacyn vs my 3 utility spells (lion and two bounce spells)

As far as removal choices:
1. I want all of my targeted removal to be able to hit manlands. Manlands have literally been the bane of my existence. Reproach is cheap and easy to cast, my singleton grasp is there for targets like Jace/TiTi. I actually like flare, and it is even better in this meta thanks to Lumbering Falls. Three copies works for me.

2. I want most of my counters to scale. Sure, almost every deck runs cheap creatures, except a ramp deck will only have stuff like Sylvan ranger. I guess you get a little value out of hitting them with awry since they don't come with lands.... but I would prefer to just wipe the little stuff off the board and save my counters for big threats.

3. In practice, with the variety of counterspells, targeted removal, bounce, board wipes, and planeswalker abilities at my disposal I find that Declaration has been completely unnecessary. I tried it for a while and it either sat in my hand because I had removal that would not give my opponent a card, or I used it and I wished I had something that would not give me opponent a card.

4. Horribly awry is at its best vs. stuff like Sylvan Advocate and Woodland Wanderer. These are the only two commonly played creatures that have toughness > 4. But keep in mind they are both rare, and they are usually run in planeswalker.deck which can often include 6 or more planeswalkers. I would much rather devote space in my deck to a flexible response that can handle planeswalkers. Lash/Grasp works against 90% of the creatures under 4 CMC that are played in this meta.

When I unlock my remaining copies of Horribly Awry I will take your deck for a spin.

Congrats on your 96% win rate.

Horribly awry hits the VAST majority of creatures in the meta. Isn't that what counts?

Also, I agree with vert on Spell Shrivel. If they put 10 lands on the board they're going to play Ulamog.
...unless it's a mirror match, in which case the shrivels are still useful in a counter war

I hate having to sweep, that's the big thing. Tapping out turn 4 or turn 5 is what lets planeswalkers resolve. Usually, I'm cool with manlands just pummeling me until I EOT them with Grasp or take them out midcombat with Celestial Flare. Usually, an opponent having to pay 3 mana plus swing with a 4th is enough of a tempo gain on my part, while I draw from clues or other spells that it doesn't bug me. At some point, I'll deal with their man lands (removal/Avacyn/my own man lands/etc).


And if it's a mirror match, you need to have at least 4 blue sources to pull off multiple counters (which is usually what happens; they'll play something, I'll counter, they'll attempt to counter my counter; and I'll Spell Shrivel their counter in response). That comes up more than you'd expect in Esper mirror matches, but even vs. other blue control builds.

Sure, Horribly Awry isn't bad in a vacuum. But what matters is how it compares to alternatives.

How many ways do I have to deal with resolved, small creatures? Lets see - 9 targeted removal, 2 bounce spells, the lion and Gideon's bear token, 4 board wipes, plus three planeswalker minus abilities. That is 20 spells/abilities that can resolve small threats, and most of them are also much more flexible.

I will admit that I would love to put one awry in my deck and draw it in my opening hand every time. But how exciting is it as a topdeck?

My deck can durdle for an eternity. I have won multiple games with ~10 cards left in my library, sometimes all of my planeswalkers like to hang out at the bottom of my deck. Often something like Ulamog chooses to ruin my party. I win the vast majority of these games BUT that is because I do not go into topdeck mode or have dead cards in hand. I usually need to have 2-3 cards in hand in order to respond appropriately to new threats each turn.

I think the comparison with Languish is fair. Languish is a dead card in certain matchups - vs control, ramp, and it won't hurt some midrange decks very much. But it is worthwhile as an include because of how it shuts down agro and some more aggressive midrange decks. It is a specialized card but it offers more than just a one for one answer. It can often trade three for one or even better.

Awry is cheaper than languish and instant speed. The comparison isn't in terms of raw power level, but rather overall utility and what it offers compared to alternatives. If it was just remove soul I can justify the easy mana cost. But with two restrictions ("Creature" and "CMC <= 5") and a variety of other cheap removal / answers I just don't see the value.

Ultimately it isn't a bad card, but answering small/cheap creatures isn't enough of a problem for my deck to devote another specialized card. The white agro matchup is an exception... but Awry performs no better or worse than other 1 for 1 removal I can muster.

Still though, those little creatures and manlands are what kill you. Ulamog and planeswalkers aren't tricky to deal with if you can get to late game. Letting stuff resolve and pummel you or tapping out on your turn to deal with them if what kills you.

And the value that Horribly Awry offers is that it comes online turn 2. Sure, it's worse than Removal Soul. But since I can't put Remove Soul in my deck, it's a faulty comparison. I think Horribly Awry is generally better than removal because it's easier to get online early (vs. BB or WW for Grasp and Celestial Flare) and because it really hits way more than you give it credit for. 4 CMC is alot of the creatures in the game.

So, out of the above removal suite, this is the configuration I'm testing right now.
1 x Dispel
1 x Dazzling Reflection
1 x Reprisal

2 x Declaration in Stone
2 x Disperse

2 x Anguished Unmaking
2 x Scatter to the Winds

3 x Roil Spout

2 x Languish
2 x Planar Outburst


_Roil Spout usually swaps spots with Horribly Awry & Grasp of Darkness. One is like soft removal, while the other wants to counter ETB effects that cost < 4 & the other interacts with manlands but requires . All of which are dead against a control matchup.

_The Dazzling Reflection/Solemn Offering, Reprisal/Angelic Purge, & Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet/Archangel Avacyn are usually trading spots.

_I regret going with creatures in my tournament deck because it would then require me to run 27 lands and is less interactive but I went that route predicting there would be plenty of slow decks and they are somewhat good against the fast decks.

1 x Dispel
1 x Dazzling Reflection
1 x Reprisal

2 x Declaration in Stone
2 x Disperse

2 x Anguished Unmaking
2 x Scatter to the Winds

1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 x Thing in the Ice
3 x Telling Time
2 x Oath of Jace

1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 x Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
1 x Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 x Sorin, Grim Nemesis

3 x Roil Spout
2 x Languish
2 x Planar Outburst
2 x Thought-Knot Seer
1 x Linvala, the Preserver
1 x Part the Waterveil

2 x Glacial Fortress
2 x Prairie Stream
2 x Drowned Catacomb
2 x Sunken Hollow
2 x Isolated Chapel
2 x Shambling Vent
4 x Evolving Wilds
4 x Island
3 x Plains
2 x Swamp
1 x Wastes

The only problem I have with Gemini's build is that it's more proactive which sometimes just makes it feel like a weaker version of Planeswalkers. If Planeswalkers can start resolving things, it's just bad news bears.

There are only few that matter.

Arlinn Kord is Gideon #2. Nahiri, the Harbinger is only as good as the creature it tutors. Lastly, Chandra, Flamecaller is just about the only other relevant planeswalker that can close out the game.

I don't like the tempo elements. Disperse and roil spout do not do a whole lot of work here... you do not curve out aggressively with creatures so playing the tempo game is not going to be helpful. Same thing with part the waterveil. At the very least I would swap disperse with the 2/3 mirror mages.

The mana for thought-knot seer is a little ambitious. 5 mana sources? Be prepared to have them sit dead in your hand. Green decks are able to splash in stuff like this but we can't.

This is kind of Esper-midrange, and in a complete aggro environment it might do well, but I do not think it is well-placed to defeat other midranged decks, which predominate this meta.

Since I completely suck at Esper deckbuilding, I decided to give divinevert's deck a spin, and that deck is amazing. I did not record my results, but I should be somewhere between 6-2 and 8-2 judging by my gold account.
Losses were against an Abzan Midrange deck after a long and swingy game that I believe could've ended either way, and another Esper control deck (different build though) where I had to mulligan to 4. Even in these losses the deck had some play though; with more experience on how to play the deck I might have been able to win the first match (though I don't believe Esper Control beats Abzan Midrange 90% of the time) and with more experience I might build up an opinion of my own on which cards I want to run/not run in this deck.

Anyways: divinevert; props and thanks to you!

I play seldomly and I'm also not very good (but I love draw-go). I'm playing HenWen build, with two minor changes: +2 Declaration in Stone, -1 Felidar Cub, -1 Gideon's Reproach.

So far very good result. I didn't keep stats, also playing a lot more against AI (which sucks) than players for timing reasons. However I managed a good number of wins, the latest of one I was able to recover after a LOT of major blunders (mulliganed an otherwise perfect 2-land hand to a less great 2-land hand, failed to break the time on discard so played Telling Time as sorcery - ouch - Let a Zendikar's Roil resolve because out of counterspells etc.).

Congrats HenWen, great deck.

Glad it was fun and glad it had good results.

As for Abzan midrange, it's probably close to a 50/50 matchup. If they draw good and just pump out relevant threat after relevant threat, it's gonna be tough, especially if you don't hit all your land drops up to at least 6 and hopefully are able to slam down a Confirm Suspicions early to reload your hand. That is a matchup where any single creature, even a Sylvan Advocate, can do serious work.

I'm going to hate running into Esper in the Xbox tourney. Vert's list especially. I've played against Geminis list extensively. His lack of counter spells lets PWs resolve and his creatures give me something to do with my removal.

I just pray for missed land drops and sweepers against Vert's list.

Were those games against me or someone else?