I wouldnt be a proper Scandinavian if I didnt like black metal hehe

You're making it sound like that matters.

But we're getting away from the point. You'll notice I wasn't the one to say "objective" here. I said my tastes were "rational" after Van said taste was irrational. All I did was ask what the merits were in music where I question the performers' abilities to play their instruments.

I will say, that was a well-executed dodge on Shadow's part. I hardly noticed it until everyone started jumping up and down on it.
Yes, actually. Do you even 6th century B.C. debate?

On topic:
Nightwish - Phantom of the Opera

I've found this more enjoyable than any performance I've seen. I've only seen tenors as the Phantom, for reasons beyond me, and they rarely have the voice to sound powerful, imposing, or even interesting over the music. Especially when some nutjobs decide synthesizer is a good accompaniment to this scene.

of course taste comes into play when judging music. if some guy who only enjoyed listening to hip hop and dance music tried listening to Rain Dogs by Tom Waits they'd probably turn it off halfway through the first track.


yeah i'm sure all those greek philosophers loved to argue semantics too

Love this vid

I don't know why, but I love this song.

to celebrate my initiation into gnomes gang

If I understood metal genres then I could maybe talk about depressive black metal or not, but I honestly have no idea what three quarters of the various genres mean.
I don't think I like black metal though, so probably not.

Metal genres are a total **** mess rivaled only by electronic music genres.

I don't think I've actually posted any metal yet so here is some of my favorite metal from when I listened to metal a lot:

Traditional heavy metal is Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Disturbed, and the like. It's pretty distinctive.
Example 1 2 3 4 5
Power metal is typically more melodic, although some American bands are more speed metal than anything, and is frequently associated with symphonic metal due to both using keyboards and putting value on the singers being able to sing.
Example 1 2 3 4 5
Symphonic metal is... well, exactly what it says in the hand. It also tends to have female lead singers in an almost operatic style. Also, has some overlap with power metal.
Example 1 2 3 4
There is also Doom, which includes Theatre of Tragedy, Candlemass, and others, goth metal which I've never been terribly clear on the borders of and more.

And those are just the genres where singing is mandatory.

It's also worth noting that I'm not a fan of several of these songs or groups, but they represent a relatively good sample of the range of music from relatively well-known groups.
I'll let wiki make my argument for me. Normally I don't like doing such, but I think it works here. Needless to say, neither do I.

Well, I know the basic ones. It's when you get into stuff like this that I lose track. I think what I listen to is Melodic Death Metal.

And I'm actually certain that I don't like Black Metal, come to think of it.

I approve of the Be'lakor video.

I just enjoy any music that makes me smile. Like this:



~SE++

Like this?

Can't say I'm a fan, personally. The guitar and drums are nice, but I'm a sucker for nice singers singing.

Be'lakor also has some nice instrumentals. I found the first minute of Neither Shape nor Shadow to be quite enjoyable.

Singing is nice but growls (like in death metal) and screams (like in black metal) provide a visceral, grim atmosphere that is good as well. Black metal is all about being simultaneously cold, bleak, but beautiful. Black metal drains you of your hope, Mown. As I said, I posted a Thy Light song last page, Mown. Check for yourself. Melodic, depressive beauty. No genre of metal (or any music really) comes close to hitting me in the feels like black metal does.

Also Van has good taste in metal. Be'lakor is great.

I have discovered the most amazing thing in the history of metal. It is glorious.

Lets not go that far i still think BFMV is amazing.

it also took me a long time to get used to screams and growls and the like. I used to have work shifts where my travel lined up with the xm metal station's grindcore hour and i HATED it. If you're not already into it you gotta kinda ween yourself onto harsh vocals with either more melodic screaming or bands with regular clean/harsh vocals.

Grindcore hour? Oh god I would jizz my pants.

Eh. I somewhat liked it until the singing/growling/vocals/whatever started. The method of growling I commonly face in Black Metal is primarily the reason it drives me off. It's too jarring, it stresses me out, when I normally listen to metal because I find it calming.

Well, no. The song was okay and all, but it's not a band I'm thrilled about. My spotify list that I rarely if ever listen to is fairly representative of my taste.

Love the growls from deicide

I can appreciate that reasoning.

Eh, I dunno. Part of the reason I dig it is just because it goes against all the established norms, its a big "**** you" to the norms of music composition and recording, and an even bigger "**** you" to those who say "these are the rules of music; if it doesn't conform, its not good". The (generally) lo-fi sound... the cold, shrill melodies, the de-emphasis on heaviness and emphasis on atmosphere. Black metal is about finding beauty in the ugly, deranged, and cold. and I love it.