I'm pretty confident this is good. GoblinRabbleMaster beat an earlier version 2-0 with GRc Ramp, but I had unusually poor draws in those games. In twelve games where I played both sides with this against his deck, Super Friends went 10-2. It does have a bit of a learning curve, and is quite decision intensive. It's also just a ton of fun to play. In the me vs. me games, the deck won on Turn 7 four times and three more on Turn 8 or Turn 9. For a control deck, it turns the corner very, very quickly.

I also haven't had meaningful mana problems yet. Four colors is aggressive, but Oath of Nissa, Sylvan Ranger, Explosive Vegetation and Ulvenwald Hydra give eleven different sources of mana fixing, and that's worked just fine. Only complaint on the mana-base is the number that enter tapped, but that's the price for running six creature lands. One thing I really like about this deck is that it can use as much mana as you can get because of all the card draw (from walkers) and creature lands, which also work great with the Sylvan Advocates and with Arlinn.

I've also tested it against UW Tempo (50/50 match-up, permission is really good against this deck) and WB Control (almost depressingly one-sided in favor of 4C Super Friends).

Creatures

4 x Sylvan Ranger
2 x Sylvan Advocate
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 x Linvala, the Preserver
1 x Greenwarden of Murasa
1 x Woodland Bellower
1 x Ulvenwald Hydra

Enchantments

2 x Oath of Chandra
2 x Oath of Gideon
2 x Oath of Nissa

Sorcery

2 x Call the Gatewatch
1 x Declaration in Stone
4 x Explosive Vegetation
2 x Planar Outburst
2 x Radiant Flames

Instant

2 x Anguished Unmaking

Planeswalkers

1 x Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 x Sorin, Grim Adversary
1 x Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 x Chandra, Flamecaller
1 x Arlinn Kord

Lands

2 x Shambling Vent
2 x Needle Spires
2 x Hissing Quagmire
2 x Canopy Vista
2 x Cinder Glade
4 x Evolving Wilds
4 x Forest
2 x Plains
2 x Swamp
2 x Mountain

I've tried this and it's a great build Randomname, I'm gonna use it as a base for my own version. Great Job !

Thank you! It's worked well for me so far, 23-2, and CGB was 3-0 with a modified version on his stream last night. I think it has a lot of promise.

Got my ass handed to me by randomname last night. Kudos for the good deck and GG

Thanks, GG! I wouldn't agree with your description of how the game went though - that couldn't have been closer. I top-decked Bellower, which let me get Sylvan Ranger to fetch a black source after your Ulamog exiled my shambling vent. If I didn't get that break, you'd have won the next turn with anguished unmaking stuck in my hand.

Hey randomname i want to thank you too for this very awesome deck, its funny to play and quite effective against all kinds of decks - and very steady against all decks so far! Might stick to it till i get in a lossing streak due bad draws/manaflooding/changing meta etc., but so far so good haha. Also an advantage that i already got all the cards from your deck, compared to other decks i wanted to play

My only loss so far was against a player who played a lot of werewolves (on the draw) and played Arlinn Kod instantly on the 4th turn, which took me a while to get rid off - unfortunately the player could finish me off later with a bit of luck and due my current inexperience with the new cards (didnt know there was a werewolf (?) who got flash for example haha)

Unfortunately i struggled alot against the current meta with my usual decks. With RDW its quite hard to finish the game if you draw bad, my current Gruul and Selesnya are not as steady as before the patch, even with new setups in the deck (cards) they dont perform as i want them to be - might need more cards from SOI or have to build a new better deck haha

Here's what I've done with the deck.


Creatures

4 x Sylvan Ranger
2 x Sylvan Advocate
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 x Linvala, the Preserver
1 x Greenwarden of Murasa
1 x Woodland Bellower
1 x Ulamog, the ceaseless hunger

Enchantments

2 x Retreat to Emeria
2 x Oath of Gideon

Sorcery

2 x Call the Gatewatch
2 x Declaration in Stone
4 x Explosive Vegetation
2 x Planar Outburst
2 x Radiant Flames
2 x Languish Removed

Instant

2 x Anguished Unmaking
1 x Kozilek's Return

Planeswalkers

1 x Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 x Sorin, Grim Adversary
1 x Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 x Chandra, Flamecaller
1 x Arlinn Kord

Lands

2 x Shambling Vent
2 x Needle Spires
2 x Hissing Quagmire
2 x Canopy Vista
2 x Cinder Glade
3 x Evolving Wilds
3 x Forest
3 x Plains
2 x Swamp
2 x Mountain
1 x Westvale Abbey


So I know removing the oath to Nissa/Chandra kind of defeat part of the theme of the deck, but there is already enough spot removal and I've never had a mana problem since the switch.

The hydra is a great card and I just removed it and an Angelic Purge to put in the 2 Languish. Again, I've not had any mana fixing problems and with all the spot removal, Hydra is easily killed. The Woodland Bellower is another obvious great card that I removed and I really want to put it back in because it creates a 6/5 and a 4/5 body that pumps our man lands.

But these changes allowed for me to 4 x spot removal and 6 sweepers. The Languish will be the first to go as I just added them and haven't even tested them yet. (Maybe remove the Langushes and add back Bellower and Kozilek's Return??).

Retreat to Emeria may seem odd, but has saved my butt more than once and is another wincon all by itself with Explosive Vegetation. It also allows me to activate Westvale Abbey. Though I've only done that once. But to be able to swing for 9 over everybody's head has got to win me a game or two. Though the Retreat does clog up the 4 mana spot a little.

The hardest games have been against aggro decks if I didn't draw a sweeper. Hence the addition of Languish. As I type this, I want Bellower back so I think I'm going to -2 Languish and +1 Kozilek's Return +1 Woodland Bellower.

What do y'all think about these changes?

I'd remove Kozilek's Return and put the Languish back in. Return only does 2 damage, and the creatures are better now than in the past...you need to be able to kill 3 toughness creatures. I'd almost say get rid of the Radiant Flames for Oath of Nissa; the draw/filter is pretty relevant and not having to worry about mana costs for your Planeswalkers is pretty good, IMO.

Another change I would suggest is removing Explosive Vegetation and replacing with Natural Connection. Yes, you are getting 1 less land but you get to ramp up to 5 mana on turn 4, which allows you to Planar Outburst earlier against aggro.

I'd also look at removing the Retreat to Emeria. Yes, it is sexy and all, but I am not a fan. If it's working for you, cool. I'd drop kick it to the curb, though, for something more proactive, like say, the creature that you get a clue token for every land drop that gets bigger when you sac a clue.

Also, if you aren't going to run the new Hydra, you might want to go up to 2 Westvale Abbey.

Well it happened. I was playing Golgari Elves and had Westvale, Emeria and Vegetation in hand. He got me down to 6 life before I could get Emeria out there for some blockers. I did draw a Planar to wipe the field t5. Played an Evolving wild and Vegetstion T6. Got another Vegetation T7 and dropped Westvale on T8 and flipped him to gain 9 life. I was at 4 life at the time.

He quit after that.

The vegetation fixes the mana too often. I'll keep testing, but I will -Kozilek return +1 Languish.

I didn't draw a PW all game and only Chandra would have helped.

What can be subbed in for Arlin. Dont have him yet.... was thinking omnath or other nissa (not sure why noone plays her)

You have to have the creature base to play her. There, she's awesome. Here, not so much.

I'd say Avacyn if you have her. If not, some sort of removal, point or mass, depending on what you need.

Ended up putting another land. top heavy 4 color decks on 24 land is not something i enjoy. 25 seems more comfortable. I am thinking Abbey is rarely going to go off in this super friends deck

Thank you everyone for playing the deck and for all the feedback on it!

After talking about the deck with CGB, I have tweaked it slightly. I'm at -1 Planar Outburst, -1 Needle Spires, -1 Hissing Quagmire, +1 Avacyn, +1 Clifftop Retreat, +1 Woodland Cemetery. Avacyn is just too strong of a card to cut out, and my experience has been that while Radiant Flames is excellent, Planar Outburst is often not needed as the deck can usually just play out over-powering stuff instead. Also, while not a sweeper, Avacyn can often eat an attacker and so serves a similar-ish role. This does weaken the deck against Kozilek, but the big guy's not shown up nearly as much as I was expecting, so I'm currently ok with that. If the meta shifts I'll have to address him though. Swapping out two creature-lands reduces the power of the deck a bit but makes the mana smoother, and I think it's more likely to lose because of a slow start than an insufficiently strong late-game.

I've seen a lot of suggested changes that make the mana worse. These include switching out explosive vegetation for natural connection, including westvale abbey, and dropping oath of nissa. I'm pretty sure these are all bad ideas. You're playing a 4 color deck! The mana requirements are punishing, and you need to be able to meet them consistently and on-curve for the deck to work. The mana fixing is what allows this list to be a real deck instead of a timmy "all the mythics!" pile of junk. The cards in the deck are still strong enough that you can win quite a few games even with worse mana, but over a decent sample size, it won't be nearly as good. As I mentioned above, I'm currently 23-2 with it on Steam, and that kind of consistency just isn't possible with worse mana.

@RogueAssasin, another Green source would be nice, as 14 is on the light side. But it's not really a 24 land deck. There are thirteen different non-land cards in the deck that can get land or fix mana, not including the four planeswalkers that can draw cards, so if you can get to two lands with at least one green source, it has less trouble making land drops the rest of the game than most 27 land decks.

TL;DR - The deck has lots of good cards and if you can play them you'll probably win. Keep the cards that let you play them.

@Randomname

What do you think about fitting in 2 Woodland Wanderer in there? Would usually be a 5/5 or 6/6 trample on t4 which is pretty threatening for some decks. I'm thinking of cutting Oath of Chandra, partly since I don't have it and partly since it seems both slow and of limited impact.

edit - not saying Oath is bad, just that the longer term value isn't going to be crazy.

edit2 - played a few games with Wanderer and it's worked very well, but obviously I don't have oath to compare it with.

Technically it walks the line between a 4 and a 5 colour deck, and I could use some help making my deck competitive, but here's the catch, I only have the cards from battle for zenzikar.
Luckily I have all of thm except some commons and a couple of trashy mythics(the phoenix and the 10 mana legendary eldrazi) so I can start picking up another pack now.

Critters
3x sylvan ranger
2x lantern scout
3x skyrider elf
4x tajuru stalwart
2x woodland wanderer

Enchantments
1x gideon, ally of zenzikar
3x retreat to emeria

Instant
1x twin bolt
2x brutal expulsion

Sorceries
4x brilliant spectrum
2x coastal discovery
2x planar outburst
2 radiant flames
3x roil sprout
3x united front

Lands
1x all basics
2x glacial fortress
2x rootbound crag
2x sunpetal groove
2x clifftop retreat
2x hinterland harbor
2x sulfur falls
2x canopy vista
2x cinder glade
2x prairie stream
2x lumbering falls
Looking at it as a whole I probably need another land or 2.probably over natural connection and one of brutal expulsion/twin bolt,I think 2 of the WB checklands should work there.

Any suggestion?
The mana base feels surprisingly alright for a 4-5 color deck
But I can't find any way to gain life while affecting the board even if I have chosen white as the color with spells requiring more than a mana of that color.

EDIT: just remembered that lantern scout exists,worth it?
Also what should I buy next?

Edit2 changed the deck a little:
removed prism array,natural connection and reclamation sages.
added lantern scouts lumbering falls and a second brutal expulsion.
The latter two have vastly overperformed my expectancies,turning out somewhat decent,lantern scout is still a bit awkward and requires more testing.

randomname, I've been playing your iteration of SupahDupahPals and it's such fun! I kinda miss Planar Outburst, and Archangel Avacyn has been "meh" at best, but the deck is crazy consistent, and effective. Thanks for sharing your build, mate!

Ok I had an idea and wanted to what critiques you have. I want to be able to use this in 2HG as well so I would probably remove Fall of Titans.


Friends Burning Friends

Creatures

1 x Sylvan Ranger
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 x Ulamog
1 x Archangel Avacyn
1 x Linvala, the Preserver


Enchantments

2 x Oath of Nissa
2 x From Beyond
2 x Oath of Gideon

Spells

4 x Explosive Vegetation

2 x Fall of Titans
1 x Ravaging Blaze (Maybe a 3 of if I take our Fall of Titans)
2 x Rolling Thunder

2 x Declaration Stone
2 x Anguished Unmaking

2 x Radiant Flames
1 x Languish
2 x Planar Outburst

Planeswalkers

1 x Gideon
1 x Nahiri
1 x Arlinn
1 x Obnixilis
1 x Chandra, Flamecaller
1 x Sorin

Lands

3 x Plain
2 x Swamp
3 x Forest
2 x Needle Spire
2 x Shambling Vent
2 x Cinder Glade
2 x Canopy Vista
2 x Woodland Cemetery
2 x Rootbound Crag
2 x a Evolving Wilds


I just threw the mana base together. So I imagine it needs some work. What do you think?

random, I think I just played against you on steam, using your deck. You were playing some golgari thing with the zombie sac package. By the way, I rocketed from rank 10-40 with your deck in about 32 matches. Great deck, great fun.

Has anyone tried LegenVD's superfriends deck? Splashing towards black and running Grasp with Kalitas?

He isn't running any fixing beyond Ranger and Wilds. When I tried it I got screwed on double mana costs a few times, but it seemed to flow smoothly enough for him and Kalitas put in a fair amount of work. When I tried it I had to be really aggressive with mulligans to get my hands to work, whereas running a skew towards green lets me keep hands that would otherwise be a bit wonky. Maybe I just got a couple of bad hands.

Good game! I actually had in my notes for that one "I think he was running the list I posted", so I'm happy to have that confirmed, and happier yet that it's worked so well for you .

Yeah, the Golgari list isn't as good as the 4C Walkers deck, but it's been decent for me against most things. I'm currently 9-4 with it against pretty darn good opposition (a lot of strong decks, played well), which is kind of B/B- range. I'd been hoping for B+, but don't think it quite gets there. It's a lot of fun when it works though - with 3x Baloth Null and 1x Greenwarden, it never runs out of gas. It can get beat for other reasons, but not because I didn't have something to cast.