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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:41 pm 
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DJ0045 wrote:
Gegliosch wrote:
Slip Through Space is your evasion.


It's not enough. I'd run slip through space in a deck where the creature does something major when it slips through, I'm not seeing this in prowess at all. I'm mean, there's just almost no way Umara Entanglers are playable. Give me a ton of flashback cards and I'd consider it - think twice for instance - without that, I could be running a card that deals 3 damage on its own for 1 mana.


In a deck that runs Titan's Strength to get damage through, the one-time evasion is good enough for me. There is a lot of card draw with the cantrips and you'll have enough spells to make even the Entangler worth 2 mana. I don't see a better 2-drop for this kind of deck.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:17 pm 
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Gegliosch wrote:
chile125 wrote:
I'm still testing IzzetMill? without Fevered Visions and I think you can make a very strong case for it, once you have Tutelage out. But when Tutelage isn't out, I wonder if it might be a bit too useful for my opponent for my taste, especially once they have enough mana, like vs a ramp deck or something.


In my experience, it's good in both cases. If you don't have tutelage, you need to find it asap and drawing 2 cards a turn helps. Your deck should be full of control and therefore able to fend off an opponent curving out. Visions helps them find the best play per turn, but just because they have more cards, their best play doesn't have to be much stronger. They just get the stronger plays more consistently. The bigger problem is that Izzet can't hope to stall the late game, so you better get digging for that Tutelage fast ;)

Well the deck is supposed to be the "fast" version of mill; my alternate win con comes from Thing in the Ice.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:37 pm 
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This is the deck I play against CGB today.

http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/visual/395104


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:39 pm 
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May i recommend you to look at DJ's beast of a deck in Jeskai? It's turbo and pretty consistent: viewtopic.php?p=436290#p436290


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:06 pm 
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Gegliosch wrote:
Here's what I settled on for my Izzet Prowess. Giving Jace another shot, but he might go for another Clutch.

Creatures (15)
1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4x Umara Entangler
2x Abbot of Keral Keep
3x Stormchaser Mage
3x Jhessian Thief
2x Jori En, Ruin Diver

Instants & Sorceries (22)
2x Fall of the Titans
2x Clutch of Currents
4x Fiery Impulse
4x Titan's Strength
4x Slip Through Space
3x Expedite
3x Geistblast

Enchantments (2)
2x Fevered Visions

Land (21)
9x Mountain
8x Island
2x Sulfur Falls
2x Wandering Fumarole

Slip Through Space are essential for the triggers and evasion, while the Haste on Expedite isn't always useful, but the cheap cantrip still makes it a superb Prowess trigger.

Titan's Strength is there for the oomph.

Geistblast and Fall of the Titans synergize well with all the 1-mana spells.

Clutch of Currents can be useful as a tempo play against slower decks, while Fiery Impulse deals with the fast ones.

The 3-mana stuff is there to refill your hand. An early Fevered Visions can also do some work to their life total.


Nice list! But does Geistblast enable Prowess and Jori En?

According to paper rules it shouldn't since copying a spell is not casting, but who knows, maybe they got it wrong in this game.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:26 pm 
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They got it right.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:24 am 
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Yep, they got it right. It's still nice with the cheap spells, bouncing 2 creatures for 4 mana or something. Finished a couple of close games for me. If nothing else, it can copy a cantrip and draw a card for 3 extra mana.

Gemini's value list looks interesting. However, I'd be a little worried to run out of artifacts to trigger the networks.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:38 am 
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Gegliosch wrote:
Here's what I settled on for my Izzet Prowess. Giving Jace another shot, but he might go for another Clutch.

Creatures (15)
1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4x Umara Entangler
2x Abbot of Keral Keep
3x Stormchaser Mage
3x Jhessian Thief
2x Jori En, Ruin Diver

Instants & Sorceries (22)
2x Fall of the Titans
2x Clutch of Currents
4x Fiery Impulse
4x Titan's Strength
4x Slip Through Space
3x Expedite
3x Geistblast

Enchantments (2)
2x Fevered Visions

Land (21)
9x Mountain
8x Island
2x Sulfur Falls
2x Wandering Fumarole

Slip Through Space are essential for the triggers and evasion, while the Haste on Expedite isn't always useful, but the cheap cantrip still makes it a superb Prowess trigger.

Titan's Strength is there for the oomph.

Geistblast and Fall of the Titans synergize well with all the 1-mana spells.

Clutch of Currents can be useful as a tempo play against slower decks, while Fiery Impulse deals with the fast ones.

The 3-mana stuff is there to refill your hand. An early Fevered Visions can also do some work to their life total.


Great list, I'm currently 5-0 with it. Although I replaced one Jhessian Thief for Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh, because I think she really shines in here: a lot of cheap red spells to flip her or can use Clutch/Slip through Space to get through for an attack and flip with even one red spell, and the flip side does exactly what this deck wants. I replaced Jhessian Thief just to keep mana costs relatively the same but maybe some other card should have been slotted out instead... but I definitely want to keep Chandra in here, try it.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:22 am 
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Don't know you guys, but between the passing phases bug making an ordeal out of any instants-based prowess gameplan, and the freezing AI upon disconnect with no reward, I feel a real masochist for playing U/R.

2014's month of bugged counterspells made Mindmaze unplayable for me.
Now all of that makes U/R a desk job.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:09 am 
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Nice list! But does Geistblast enable Prowess and Jori En?

According to paper rules it shouldn't since copying a spell is not casting, but who knows, maybe they got it wrong in this game.

lol, nope; doesn't say cast (unlike brain in a jar)

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:21 pm 
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Ordev wrote:
Great list, I'm currently 5-0 with it. Although I replaced one Jhessian Thief for Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh, because I think she really shines in here: a lot of cheap red spells to flip her or can use Clutch/Slip through Space to get through for an attack and flip with even one red spell, and the flip side does exactly what this deck wants. I replaced Jhessian Thief just to keep mana costs relatively the same but maybe some other card should have been slotted out instead... but I definitely want to keep Chandra in here, try it.

Thanks for the input, I'll give Chandra a try. I considered her initially, but got a little too excited over the new cards and forgot ;)

Double red might be a problem though, I already had some colour issues as is. That's why I included 4 more taplands, even though it slows the deck down. Too many unplayable openers lately.


Edit: I tested both flipwalkers and they performed well. I cut an Entangler for Chandra. I'd love to keep more 2-drops, but the Entangler is the weakest creature. It's the greedy choice, but it payed off so far.

Btw, I also tried to be extra greedy and add 2 Scourge Wolf, but it doesn't work. Not only is the double red problematic, it is almost impossible to activate delirium. You get the instant and sorcery easy enough, but getting the other 2 is hard and unreliable. Not worth the trouble.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:00 pm 
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Gegliosch wrote:
I have my doubts about Thing in the Ice in a Prowess deck. I love the card and the deck has a lot of instant/sorcery backup, but you don't wanna cast them without creatures on the board, so you're kinda hurting yourself with the global bounce. It's also rather slow, despite the fact that you can trigger it turn 4. I think it fits defensive decks a lot better than offensive ones.

I also don't like Jace very much in aggressive decks. I know the loot mechanic helps a lot and he'll eventually get you another spell or two unanswered, but I'd rather spend my second turn to set up some Prowess action - that's what the deck does, isn't it? If you delay that with Jace, you start your 4th turn with a single creature out and your spells waste potential without multiple Prowess triggers. The longer you set up your plays, the more likely they are to have something prepared or simply win the race.

Long story short: You have no time to Jace. For more draw power, choose Fevered Visions, awesome card. I know, I just told you that you have no time for a timeout, but this one triggers prowess and can rack up quite a bit of damage unless they curve out at 2 cmc. Well, I guess you could make a case for Jace as a backup plan later on, when you can flip him next turn. I'll give it another try.


Thanks for the response! Thing in the Ice is a finisher. There's no point where you're triggering him that you're saying, "Man, I wish I didn't have to bounce my creatures." He wins the race after you've emptied your hand controlling the board and damaging the opponent.

Jace's purpose wasn't to draw, it was to re-use spells from the graveyard and neutralize blockers. He's also a removal magnet. However, Thing is so effective that he's fairly unnecessary, and can probably be removed. My dislike of Fevered Visions is that I think it'll cause you to lose the race in dedicated madness decks, like Rakdos, as you're feeding their discard habit without penalty.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:06 pm 
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Good points. The vision does feed discard decks, but either I have enough plays to win and don't need to play it or it is still the next best thing to fuel my attack. Running out of spells or creatures puts you in a very bad spot.

I already ate my words on Jace, he is useful, as long as you prioritize other turn 2 plays and save him for the flip later on. With Expedite he can flip immediately and get you another spell, along with the one you drew. Powerful stuff.

Thing in the Ice - well, I suppose I need to test that to make sure, but there are so many downsides. It hurts the tempo, as it sits there for a few turns and I really don't wanna see it bounce my board and get removed. Another thing to keep in mind: With Thing in the Ice sitting there, I can't play out multiple instants to buff my creatures without bouncing them back and negating the spell effects. It's a complete nonbo with most of the spells I use.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 4:23 am 
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Last edited by babassoonist on Sat Apr 09, 2016 4:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 4:45 am 
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I don't see Pore over the Pages in that list. Anyway, I just wanted to warn you that the card is bugged. You can't choose half of the instants/sorceries you find with it. It simply won't allow you to select them.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 4:56 am 
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Gegliosch wrote:
I don't see Pore over the Pages in that list. Anyway, I just wanted to warn you that the card is bugged. You can't choose half of the instants/sorceries you find with it. It simply won't allow you to select them.

oops, forgot to add those in, I havent had a problem with it, meh


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:37 pm 
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Gegliosch wrote:
Good points. The vision does feed discard decks, but either I have enough plays to win and don't need to play it or it is still the next best thing to fuel my attack. Running out of spells or creatures puts you in a very bad spot.

I already ate my words on Jace, he is useful, as long as you prioritize other turn 2 plays and save him for the flip later on. With Expedite he can flip immediately and get you another spell, along with the one you drew. Powerful stuff.

Thing in the Ice - well, I suppose I need to test that to make sure, but there are so many downsides. It hurts the tempo, as it sits there for a few turns and I really don't wanna see it bounce my board and get removed. Another thing to keep in mind: With Thing in the Ice sitting there, I can't play out multiple instants to buff my creatures without bouncing them back and negating the spell effects. It's a complete nonbo with most of the spells I use.


What you say makes sense, especially about Visions in regards to exhausting your spells or creatures. That's why I like Thing--he's a blocker early and typically flips only when my hand is low (or empty), and our low cc creatures make it relatively easy to recover.

Anyway, you've given me food for thought, and your version is certainly more aggressive. I look forward to trying it.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:02 pm 
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madwren wrote:
your version is certainly more aggressive.

I think that is the main reason why Thing in the Ice has been good for you and would be much worse for me: Titan's Strength is the only spell you cast on your own creatures, while I use 7 cantrip buffs along with them. This results in two things: You draw less cards/spells over the course of a game, which weakens the Prowess strategy and makes Thing in the Ice a strong finisher once you're out of spells. It also means that I would be wasting a lot of spell effects when I bounce my own buffed creature. I can absolutely see that card being good in your version, because it doesn't revolve around explosive one-turn kills that are impossible when I can't cast 3-4 spells in a single turn.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 6:03 am 
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3 x Lightning Axe

1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 x Thing in the Ice
3 x Telling Time

2 x Fevered Visions
2 x Scatter to the Winds
3 x Broken Concentration
4 x Catalog
3 x Artificer's Epiphany
2 x Geistblast
4 x Fiery Temper
2 x Exquisite Firecraft

2 x Brutal Expulsion

2 x Confirm Suspicions

1 x Chandra, Flamecaller

9 x Island
5 x Mountain
2 x Sulfur Falls
4 x Evolving Wilds
4 x Highland Lake


holy 3 drop slot batman, so I decided that maybe the X spells weren't the most efficient damage sources so now the main wincons are Firecraft and TITI


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:13 pm 
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I haven't unlocked any SOI boosters at all and am at 83% of OGW, so I am limited in the decks I can brew. Which is a bummer and its gonna take forever to grind all those damn boosters and get back to deck building proper which is what I like. I basically have 2 options with the cards I have, one is what I believe will be the strongest aggro deck in the meta (Izzet Prowess) or Eldrazi aggro which is something I'm still working on.

Izzet Prowess 2.0

Description
Updated version, still missing cards :(

Creature(18)
3 x Goblin Glory Chaser
1 x Umara Entangler
2 x Abbot of Keral Keep
2 x Mage-Ring Bully
1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 x Stormchaser Mage
2 x Jori En, Ruin Diver
1 x Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh
3 x Jhessian Thief
1 x Akoum Firebird

Instant(8)
2 x Fall of the Titans
3 x Titan's Strength
3 x Expedite

Sorcery(8)
4 x Slip Through Space
2 x Clutch of Currents
2 x Exquisite Firecraft

Enchantment(3)
3 x Infectious Bloodlust

Artifact(3)
3 x Alchemist's Vial

Land(20)
7 x Island
2 x Wandering Fumarole
9 x Mountain
2 x Sulfur Falls


View to this deck go to: http://www.magicduelshelper.com/decklis ... 2001f0cb5b

Created using Magic Duels Helper: http://www.magicduelshelper.com

So this is the update to the earlier version I posted. Main changes/differences with other builds posted here are:
- Fairies are gone - the ocasional draw was okayish as was the evasion but mid-game they were terrible draws if there wasn't another one on the board(kept the glory chasers, because 1 drops are essential for early beatdown and with slip through space they are much better draws later on)
- Added Fall of the Titans - Play testing confirmed that this card is just awesome in this deck, since its is very easy to trigger the surge. The perfect X spell to finish the game.
- The firebird stays. Not a whole lot of synergy, but the bird is still awesome by itself.
- Infectious bloodlust stays. +3 hasting tools, prowess activator, card advantage, +2/+1... Come on, if it rocks in RDW why not here? especially good to put on non-prowess guys or the 1/3s.
- Umara Entangler is good enough as a 2-drop to be in the deck (could even be more copies if you want more creature density) She's an Abbot without the extra card...
- Alchemist's Vial - This card seems to have been overlooked by everyone else and in my tests, I can say it works very well here. It activates prowess, its a cantrip to keep feeding the draw and the Joris, its cheap, its evasion in the sense that it removes a blocker for the final blow calculations... So its all good. With this in the deck, I haven't yet run out of steam/cards. It just keeps drawing, drawing, drawing... I actually believe there is no need for fevered visions at all.
- Exquisite Firecraft came in because burn just puts you that much closer to winning, especially if Jace lets you play it again.
- Jace and Chandra are still in, but they haven't exactly overwhelmed me in this deck. They work more like back-up plans. Jace is better than chandra because he can help ditch lands before he flips and then -3 for an extra card and more prowess shenanigans. Chandra is a win-con by herself and can magically make opponents concede, but she gets in the way of the rest of the deck to be able to flip her.

- Afterthoughts: Embodiment of Fury could be nice as a 4/3 trampling body who makes land drops stronger (although deck should win by the time it becomes relevant) or Pyromancer's assault (If your feeding 2 spells a turn to Jori, why not to this enchantment as well? Activates prowess the turn you cast it too... Probably the same issue with Fury, relevant too late)

So how does it play? Quite different to RDW. It starts off slower, setting up the board and not doing much damage in the first 3-4 turns, then all of a sudden on turn 5-6-7 hits for huge amounts and finishes the game then and there. Its the kind of deck the has to develop a critical-mass to work, because you get scale economies if you have more prowess creatures on the board. It works like this: if you have 1 critter an instant gets you +1/+1, if you have 2, and 2 instants, +4/+4, if you have 3 of each, +9/+9, and so on... So its exponential. Boom, your dead. The card drawing is also sweet, because it lets you cycle through a huge chunk of your deck very fast and consistently. All this, even with the priority bug that should cripple this deck, but not entirely. It can still kick-ass even with the abbot and Jace being severely wounded.

Let me know your thoughts (especially on the vial, which I urge other prowess players to try out), its nice to have feedback as I try to motivate myself for the megalithic task of unlocking all the cards I'm still missing.

BTW, I'm missing a stormchaser mage, thats why there are only 2.

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