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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:51 pm 
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Here's a fun Tokens/Artifacts/Enchantments synergy combo thing. I'm 21-4 with it on Steam. Three of the four losses I stumbled on land drops (which isn't too common with the deck, but punishing when it does happen) with the fourth coming to a Rakdos Sac/Steal with a perfect draw against my hand. It's quite similar to the Boros Tokens deck I came up with a while ago that CovertGoBlue recently analyzed on his blog, but is slower and more mid-range-ish while having better resilience against sweepers and more card advantage engines. It also tries to incorporate a few of the improvements he made to the Boros version. On the whole, I think it's very strong, and wish I'd entered it for one of my three decks in the all platform tournament that is currently running.

Creatures

1 x Kytheon, Hero of Akros
4 x Perilous Myr
3 x Runed Servitor
3 x Pilgrim's Eye
3 x Chief of the Foundry
4 x Eldrazi Skyspawner
3 x Whirler Rogue

Spells

4 x Alchemist's Vial
3 x Valor in Akros
3 x Retreat to Emeria
2 x Thopter Spy Network
1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 x Angelic Edict

Lands

4 x Plains
5 x Island
4 x Azurius Guildgate
4 x Evolving Wilds
3 x Foundry of the Consuls
2 x Prairie Stream
2 x Glacial Fortress


If it looks interesting to any of you guys, please give it a try and let me know how you like it! I think it's a lot of fun; quite often there are tricky decision to make and it leads to interesting play.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 10:00 am 
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I decided to try out a mill deck that focuses on card drawing and defense, to mixed results. This deck has issues, not least of which is the lack of creatures, but I'm having a tough time figuring out if this deck has pretty much reached the peak of its ability for lack of additional power cards or if there are other options that would improve it performance. Here's the deck:

Creatures
3 x Fortified Rampart
1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 x Tide Drifter
3 x Esperzoa
3 x Darkslick Drake

Spells
4 x Alchemist's Vial
3 x Gideon's Reproach
3 x Celestial Flare
3 x Sphinx's Tutelage
3 x Artificer's Epiphany
2 x Suppression Bonds
3 x Inspiration
1 x Planar Outburst
2 x Tragic Arrogance
2 x Angelic Edict

Lands
6 x Plains
6 x Island
3 x Foundry of the Consuls
2 x Prairie Stream
2 x Glacial Fortress
2 x Azorius Guildgate
1 x Skyline Cascade


JThe basic concept it play total defense, put up walls and try to get to a level where at least one Tutelage is out and the deck is under control. I know I am relying heavily on the Esperzoa/Alchemist Vial combo, but the Vial isn't bad on defense on its own, and Esperzoa is passably good on defense, though keeping it on deck is harder than I thought it would be. One direction I've been considering is adding in landfall cards with Pilgrim's Eye, but it seems to contradict the focus of the deck, watering down both. Thoughts?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:14 am 
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Encino, don't want to be rude, but this deck has so many things wrong, that you should consider rebuilding it.

First of, if you're going for azorious mill with def, why not play Thopter Spy Network + Whirler Rogue - free card advantage and chumps? Especially, that you already have 4 Alchemist's Vial.
Except Jace, Vryn's Prodigy all you creatures are crap in such a deck :P I'd definitely add some Felidar Cubs.
You should play 2x Planar Outburst and 4x Inspiration. I'd also go up to 4x Artificer's Epiphany, especially with Thopter Spy Network and Whirler Rogue. Maybe some Perilous Myr to block aggro and give you more TSN and Epiphany activators.

I personally really dislike Tragic Arrogance as it usually doesn't hit what you want to hit, there's always that 1 planeswalker left etc. If you want another wipe, maybe you should consider Hixus, Prison Warden as a flash creature. It's decent in a draw-go deck.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:06 pm 
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Auunj is right in that there are quite some things wrong with this deck; let's see what we can salvage.

First off, the deck runs too much early defense. 3 Ramparts, 2 Tide Drifters, 3 Reproaches and 3 Celestial Flares is way too much. It's good vs. aggro, but even then they are 1-for-1s only; and they are blanks against Ramp and Control.
Another thing to note is that Celestial Flare does not work well with your walls.

Auunj mentioned Thopter Spy Network, which is just a great card in blue control decks running artifacts. Since you are already running the Esperzoa + Alchemist's Vial card advantage machine (as well as Artificer's Epiphany), it fits very nicely. Also, both Perilous Myr and Runed Servitor might have some merit in your deck.
Not really sure about Pilgrim's Eye; you should have enough ways to find your lands. Also not 100% sold on Whirler Rogue, as it is a lot better with more creatures (it is a better fit to the deck than Darkslick Drake though).

Your deck really wants counterspells; that way you can disrupt your opponents efficiently. Definitely add some number of Spell Shrivel and Scatter to the Winds.

On the Wraths; IMO Planar Outburst is a better fit for a control or mill deck like yours, but Tragic Arrogance has some merit.
Conversely, I am not sold on Hixus, as the opportunity cost for that Wrath is too high (Life total can be a very scarce resource in a mill deck) and it is actually quite easy to undo the Wrath. Also, it does not interact well with a second Wrath at all.

As a final note, 22 lands is not enough I think. I'd go up to 24 definitely.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:10 pm 
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This is the updated version of a deck I posted a couple of weeks ago. I haven't lost in the 16 games I've played since the changes. I was hovering around 85 percent before (around 40 games). Outside of 4 dual-lands, I have 0 rares and mythics. Put down some early pressure and get to work.

PureBird (why not)

4fairie miscreant

4welkin tern

4stalwart aven

2eldrazi skyspawner

3thunderclap wyvern

3dauntless river Marshall

4clutch of currents

4disperse

3anchor to the aether

3celestial flare

3telling time

2foundry of the consuls

2prairie stream

3evolving wilds

2glacial fortress

3skyline cascade

6plains

5 island


Last edited by PureSynesthesia on Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:28 pm 
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Pure: I have a list similar to this.. and Kytheon's Tactics is a total all star for me. It ends games out of nowhere.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:48 pm 
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Well here I feel pretty finely tuned and you drop a gamebreaker on me to tinker with. Kytheon's tactics. I usually like to play around 6 overrun in decks with that end so maybe 3 tactics to go with 3 wyvern. I'll check it out. Thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:06 pm 
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This is the updated version of a deck I posted a couple of weeks ago. I haven't lost in the 16 games I've played since the changes. I was hovering around 85 percent before (around 40 games). Outside of 4 dual-lands, I have 0 rares and mythics. Put down some early pressure and get to work.

PureBird (why not)

4fairie miscreant

4welkin tern

4stalwart aven

2eldrazi skyspawner

3thunderclap wyvern

3dauntless river Marshall

4clutch of currents

4disperse

3anchor to the aether

3celestial flare

3telling time

2foundry of the consuls

2prairie stream

3evolving wilds

2glacial fortress

3clifftop retreat

6plains

5 island


There are only 2 clifftop retreats?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:45 pm 
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Yes but ask yourself why I wanted red mana? It's a screw up on my part. It's really skyline cascade. Oops


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:58 pm 
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Roil spout over anchor to the aether. Cost is a bit more prohibitive (although not much of a big deal) but you gain the awaken option


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:40 pm 
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Yes but ask yourself why I wanted red mana? It's a screw up on my part. It's really skyline cascade. Oops


Cool will give it a try. It is funny because Razorfoot griffin (i.e the hard AI) is a pretty good counter for this. But you see him in 2% of versus.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:15 pm 
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On a second look, I'm not really interested in kytheon's tactics in this build as it wins by slowing the other person down rather than winning out of nowhere. Great card for a slightly different direction, though. Maybe I can still find a place to jam one in anyway. I can picture the top deck now...mostly

Elk, I started with 3 roil spout to 1 anchor but came around to 3 anchor as the scry digs where this deck otherwise would not. With the lack of much presence on the ground, I absolutely need the haste for it to work. It may partly be my bias from paper magic and the 23 land count, but there's a big difference between 6 mana like clutch of currents and the 7 mana for spout. Great card overall but the same 23 lands that help ensure consistent starts get in the way of drawing relevance as the game goes on. At face value, the 3 wyverns are the only spell costs over 3. I could just say acid moss but you knew that.

Mowie if someone plays the griffin you should just concede immediately, haha. Seriously they need a win more than you do since they lose to everything else. It's still a 4mana sink if you bounce it, though. Celestial flare that 2nd rate bird if you have to.

I appreciate the insights, peoples. I'll keep them in mind.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:26 pm 
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On a second look, I'm not really interested in kytheon's tactics in this build as it wins by slowing the other person down rather than winning out of nowhere. Great card for a slightly different direction, though. Maybe I can still find a place to jam one in anyway. I can picture the top deck now...mostly

Elk, I started with 3 roil spout to 1 anchor but came around to 3 anchor as the scry digs where this deck otherwise would not. With the lack of much presence on the ground, I absolutely need the haste for it to work. It may partly be my bias from paper magic and the 23 land count, but there's a big difference between 6 mana like clutch of currents and the 7 mana for spout. Great card overall but the same 23 lands that help ensure consistent starts get in the way of drawing relevance as the game goes on. At face value, the 3 wyverns are the only spell costs over 3. I could just say acid moss but you knew that.

Mowie if someone plays the griffin you should just concede immediately, haha. Seriously they need a win more than you do since they lose to everything else. It's still a 4mana sink if you bounce it, though. Celestial flare that 2nd rate bird if you have to.

I appreciate the insights, peoples. I'll keep them in mind.


Yeah.. mine is all about developing a board, ignoring what my opponent is doing unless they play a flier (then I put that enchantment on it that gives -6/-0 and loses flying). After I have my board, I protect it with Spell Shrivel and plink away until Tactics is lethal, then just win the game. The only bad matchup is Twin Bolt, as a lot of the creatures in my build are 1 toughness. It wins vs everything else.. including Thopters bc it's faster and tactics makes them chump all their thopters.. unless they have Twin Bolt.. sigh. RDW has been the toughest matchup in testing (40-50 games).

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:30 pm 
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If you are playing 3 thunderclap wyvern and 2 foundry of the consuls it makes sense to play a couple counterspells. Also, I think the skyhunter skirmisher is better than the stalwart aven when you are pumping them with the wyvern.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:04 pm 
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I'm trying out this thunderclap wyvern deck that also uses willbreaker:

1 Kytheon, hero of Akros
2 anointer of champions
3 dauntless river marshal
1 Jace, Vryn's prodigy
2 harbinger of the tides
3 welkin tern
2 tightening coils
1 pilgrim's eye
3 eldrazi skyspawner
2 scatter to the winds
2 spell shrivel
3 roil spout
3 whirler rogue
3 thunderclap wyvern
1 Gideon, ally of Zendikar
1 guardian of Tazeem
1 willbreaker
1 drowner of hope
5 plains
8 island
2 prairie stream
2 glacial fortress
2 foundry of the consuls
2 azorius guildgate
4 evolving wilds

The concept is the same that has been proposed by others: slow ramp decks that play few win conditions, and control decks that rely on mass removal, can be beaten by playing a couple cheap fliers on turn 2 and 3 and riding them to victory while holding up counterspells/wyverns; while aggro decks should be held at bay by harbingers and cheap removal, until I start playing whirler rogues, guardian of Tazeem and drowner of hope.

The anointers may appear out of place: they are here to help my fliers against opposing thopters, and to provide early defense against aggro.

Finally the willbreaker is in the deck by virtue of the massive amount of repeatable targeting effects that I have: anointers, whirler rogues, river marshals, guardian of Tazeem, drowner, a flipped Jace or Gideon, plus harbingers (you can target a tapped creature and choose not to bounce it) and tightening coils (which is going to give me a crippled but still usable creature). Needless to say the most awesome wins come from this guy, although I think he's not necessary to the overall plan of the deck, and having two in play is redundant, so I chose to only have one for now.

I'm still tweaking the numbers (do I want 4 welkin terns ?) but at least the general idea seems to be working.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:59 pm 
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This is a slightly modified version of the deck I posted, though really I've found this deck to not only be successful, but fun to play in the app meta.

First, I want to address some of the awesome comments I got:

Auunj wrote:
First of, if you're going for azorious mill with def, why not play Thopter Spy Network + Whirler Rogue - free card advantage and chumps? Especially, that you already have 4 Alchemist's Vial.

Good question, which led me to one of the biggest trade outs in the deck, Suppression Bonds for the Network. I dunno why I missed it, but it is certainly a huge increase in capabilities, especially with the Tide Drifters, and hit right on the concept. Thanks Auunj!

Here's another:
Modulo wrote:
First off, the deck runs too much early defense. 3 Ramparts, 2 Tide Drifters, 3 Reproaches and 3 Celestial Flares is way too much. It's good vs. aggro, but even then they are 1-for-1s only; and they are blanks against Ramp and Control.
Another thing to note is that Celestial Flare does not work well with your walls.

So, to defend the concept, why walls? Because big walls are far cheaper than any of the creatures that can flat out kill them, you get them 3 or 4 turns earlier and they last much longer. So, walls are perfect for the main tactic of this deck...stall. This is an ENTIRELY defensive concept, and the only goal is to stall, frustrate and delay your opponent long enough to mill their deck away. There is no other win con, though I did win once attacking with a pair of drakes, but that was the exception. Against control decks, yea, there is some struggle, and I have found it's much tougher to get to my wincon against them, but what usually turns the tide is card advantage.

But, Modulo, I don't understand...why don't Flares work with walls?

And another quote:
Modulo wrote:
Your deck really wants counterspells; that way you can disrupt your opponents efficiently. Definitely add some number of Spell Shrivel and Scatter to the Winds.

This was a tough choice for me when I was building this deck, but in the end I chose to spend my resources on card drawing (which fits the concept perfectly) than on more defense. The reality is, when this deck gets lockdown, after my opponent is topdecking and I've cleared the board, there's no need for counters. The only thing I'm afraid of are hordes of critters, and I tend to deal with those well enough. Tragic Arrogance, btw, though it has its limitations, is still a pretty amazingly effective Wrath. I do not like Hixus at all, mainly for the casting cost, but also for the limitations. I don't like being one Reprisal from a horde killing me. :D

So far the deck plays really well. Most losses are due to no land/all land draws, or if I miss getting enough shields up before I can settle in and mill, but it's a fun deck to play.

Creatures
1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3 x Tide Drifter
3 x Esperzoa
2 x Guardians of Meletis
3 x Darkslick Drake

Spells
4 x Alchemist's Vial
3 x Gideon's Reproach
3 x Celestial Flare
3 x Sphinx's Tutelage
3 x Artificer's Epiphany
2 x Thopter Spy Network
3 x Coastal Discovery
1 x Planar Outburst
2 x Tragic Arrogance
2 x Angelic Edict

Lands
6 x Plains
6 x Island
3 x Foundry of the Consuls
2 x Prairie Stream
2 x Glacial Fortress
1 x Azorius Guildgate
2 x Skyline Cascade


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:20 pm 
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I wanted to play mono white control but since that is not possible without some kind of card drawing i made this mono white with splashed in jace and spectrums for drawing. Feels ok deck but of course it would want to play better finishers. 3 mana drop was really puzzling and there really was nothing important to actually play. The main problem imo is that some times when i don't draw spectrums or u just don't find angels the deck really does not do much to win the game. Feel free to give ur opinion on making this better.

Azorius Angel Control
Added little video of the deck in action https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxhaTghrfI

White
3x Felidar Cub
4x Alchemist's Vial
4x Celestial Flare
1x Archangel of Tithes
3x Retreat to Emeria
4x Suppression Bonds
1x Gideon
2x Planar Burst
2x Tragic Arrogance
3x Angelic Edict
2x Angel of Renewal
2x Emeria Shepherd

Blue
4x Brilliant Spectrum
1x Jace

Lands
10x Plains
2x Island
1x Swamp
1x Mountain
2x Canopy Vista
2x Prairie Stream
2x Glacial Fortress
4x Evolving Wilds

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:45 pm 
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Here's a UW Tempo/Fliers/Draw-Go deck I've been testing.

I think this one is good, not great. I'm unsure how it can be improved. As with all UW decks, Gaea's Revenge is a problem, but unlike more controlling decks this one is not running Planar Outburst or Thopter Spy Network for infinite chump blockers, and that might just be an achilles heel. I think it has pretty good match-ups against most anything other than Gaea's though. I could try Drowner of Hope to have something that could match Gaea's, but I'm not sure it fits well with the rest of the deck. In testing, Confirm Suspicions has been the best card in the deck, which is a surprise - I'd have bet on Jace, Gideon, or Reflector Mage. It is possible that it's correct to cut Roil Spout for either more permission (in which case Jace, Vrynn's Prodigy should also be cut, as there's not much left to flash back) or for card draw (Pore Over the Pages would be pretty nice to have). Essence Flux is also a bit iffy, even in a deck with this many spirits, and I could be talked in to cutting all three for Whirler Rogue or something.

Creatures

1 x Archangel Avacyn
2 x Bygone Bishop
3 x Dauntless River Marshall
2 x Dimensional Infiltrator
2 x Eldrazi Displacer
1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 x Rattlechains
3 x Reflector Mage
3 x Thunderclap Wyvern

Instants

2 x Broken Concentration
2 x Confirm Suspicions
3 x Essence Flux
2 x Scatter to the Winds
1 x Spell Shrivel

Sorcery

2 x Declaration in Stone
3 x Roil Spout

Planeswalkers

1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 x Jace, Unraveler of Secrets

Land

4 x Evolving Wilds
7 x Island
4 x Plains
2 x Prairie Stream
2 x Glacial Fortress
4 x Meandering River
1 x Wastes

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:09 pm 
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I think Spell Shrivel is strictly better than Confirm Suspicions if you're forced to choose between them.

Since you're only two color, you can probably support Foundry of the Consuls as an additional colorless source and a mana sink for draw-go.

Don't think the River Marshal is ultimately worth it, especially instead of Thing in the Ice. Prophet of Distortion is a possibility, too. Same with Stormrider Spirit.

You'll probably want to cut down on some of the creatures for more draw spells/counterspells. As it is, it feels like your deck doesn't know if it wants to be control or tempo.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:13 pm 
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@ randomname

Ok so you remember I played this janky spirit I brewed deck vs you a couple of times , and my conclusion is there are simply not enough playables to make it really great... but I think you are as usual on the right track to make headway.

Some things:

_ Definately do not run Thing in the ice, since the last thing you wanna do in this deck is bounce your own board. I kinda want to say 'yeah include some instant draw... but we don't have good ones for this deck... You make some clues.... maybe it's enough?' River marshall is a 3/2 for 2 and a manasink. Go beat face brother.

_ Eldrazi Displacer does amazing things, but he's a 2 off, and only does ANYTHING the deck wants to do if you get one of your 5 wastes on the table. Cut him.

_ We dont have enough 2 drop fliers to really go off with 3cmc counterspells (unless you wanna go deep with welkyn tern, which i tried... it sometimes works !), so that's obviously a weakness of the deck. We do have access to Spectral Shepherd and Topplegeist. Together these and rattlechains represent a very cool little manasink. I know we only have 2 Rattlechains, and for this deck to really shine, you'd need 4, but I still think those cards are playable and merit consideration. They also upgrade Essence Flux quite significantly.
What i've found very hard is to enable delirium for topplegeist in this archetype (which turns this card into the best 1 drop EVER, well after Goblin Guide... and 25 legacy/vintage cards). Angelic Purge may help a bit, but it's not really enough imo.

_ I really like Confirm Suspicions here. Babs made a jank counterburn deck that also correctly (imo) identified it as a synergistic card. I also had other people asking me today if I consider that card playable in Zorius, Esper control. Answer is YES ! as long as you have a very heavy flash or instant theme, it's a fine 'wincon'. Wether 1 or 2 is the correct number, I don't know.

_ Finally, and this may come as a surprise, but unlike many, I enjoy a good Roil Spouting. But you know; I'd rather play 1 of it and 2 Always Watching at first glance.


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