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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:48 am 
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Hello,

Tonight I participated in a OGW draft (2 OGW boosters + 1 BFZ booster). I did 'okay' but I am seeking to improve and was looking for constructive criticism.

I don't have too much success at drafting, I usually go for cards that would be better in constructed but endup having something that doesn't stand on it own during matchups.

I tried a different approach tonight and did better than I had expected, but I still want to 'evolve'.


I will post the deck that I used and hope that someone can point out the holes or what the deck seems to be missing. I can't seem to pinpoint it but I'd say it lacks something to keep the momentum going.


Deck Breakdown



Creatures - White
01 Kor Bladewhirl
02 Makindi Aeronaut
01 Wall of Resurgence
02 Kor Scythemaster
01 Kor Sky Climber
01 Kor Entanglers
01 Felidar Sovereign
_________
09 White Creatures

Creatures - Black
01 Culling Drone
02 Dominator Drone
01 Silent Skimmer
01 Zulaport Chainmage
_________
05 Black creatures

Creatures - Multicolored
01 Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim
_________
01 Multicolored creature

Instants/Sorceries/Enchantments - White
02 Searing Light
01 Isolation Zone
_________
03 non-creature white spells

Instants/Sorceries/Enchantments - Black
01 Untamed Hunger
02 Tar Snare
02 Oblivion Strike
02 Witness the End
_________
07 non-creature black spells

Lands
08 Plains
07 Swamp
_________
15 Lands

Creatures: 15
Non-Creatures:10
Lands:15
Total:
40 Cards



Other White-Black Cards I could of used:


01 Corpse Churn
02 Kozilek's Shrieker
01 Mire's Malice
01 Mind Raker
01 Kozilek's Translator
---
01 Mighty Leap
01 Eldrazi Displacer
01 Shadow Glider
01 Courier Griffin
01 Unified Front
01 Steppe Glider
01 Expedition Raptor
-----
01 Hedron Blade




Like I said at the start, usually I would go for rare cards or strong cards and then try to make it fit together. This time, I tried to go for just colors. My 1st pick in my first pack was the Eldrazi Displacer, but then I realised that I did not want to fuss with getting colorless mana sources and decided to scrap my usual strategy and try something new and started getting black and white cards.

So, if someone has pointers or suggestions on what could have made a better deck with these cards, I would love to hear from you; I want to improve my game.


P.S.
One of the booster packs that I got as prize ended up not having a rare. The magic shop suggested that I send an email to WOTC and see what they say.


Thanks,
V.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:36 am 
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Casting a six drop with 15 lands can be painful.
I'd play displacer anyway, maybe instead of dominator drone, you don't have that many colorless creatures and the third point of toughness is relevant.
Did you find good targets for searing light? Two of them plus the -3/-2 spell seem a lot.(Edit:looking at the deck better removing small blockers makes sense)
You have some good flyers in the side that might have worked better than the 3/1 first strike at attacking.
Also your top end is low enough that mire malice might be better than withness the end.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:14 am 
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Of course, the 'look at my cardpool and tell me how I could have built a better deck' discussion is one that makes a lot more sense for sealed, rather than for draft. In draft, the deckbuilding was part of the drafting process. How you could have built a better deck has a lot more to do with the 252 cards you saw but didn't draft, than it has to do with the 14 on-color cards you drafted but didn't play.

I really would have drafted to support the P1P1 Displacer. As noted above, you probably should've played it anyway, because White seldom does better than a 3/3 for 3 even in vanilla.

Kolizek's Translator is a good card that I'd usually run (and look, it can power Displacer!), though with your deck it would pretty much *be* the top end, rather than get you there (only Felidar Sovereign being more than Translator's casting cost). I'd also usually run Shrieker, but again its use is reliant on being able to power its ability (or get value out of its colorless-ness, or ideally both);

From what I've seen, OGW limited is a slugfest . Searing Light and Tar Snare are removal that aim too low by default, though excellent sideboard additions against decks loaded with small guys.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:06 pm 
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As mark said, hard to say what you could have had just by looking at what you got. In BFZ, cards of a color were famously split between archetypes and just picking a good on-color card would not always work, since it might just be a bad fit for your deck - like Halimar Tidecaller with no awaken cards. OGW seems like it might be a bit less synergistic, but you still need to think about how you want your deck to function (that aggro-midrange-control thing) in order to have a good draft.

Displacer is a great card. More so as you picked up some CIP creatures like Courier Griffin and Kor Entaglers. With what you have, I'd prefer a more controlling build, playing the five-drop white fliers. You are simply not aggresive anough to make Kor Scythemaster into a good card. It does not belong in the same deck with Makindi Aeronaut. And your best cards are control, not aggro. The Wall is especially great in a stall-the-ground, win-in-the-air strategy. Basically, you attack in the air, block on the ground, and remove any fliers/bombs they manage to play.

So: displacer, both gliders, griffin, raptor, shrieker, three lands go in, drones, scythemasters, Searing light (you can probably just block anything with that low power) go out. The rest of the cuts is tricky, since your cards are good.

Ups. Untamed Hunger. That is another easy cut. It might even be playable in some decks, against some opponents, but not here. You have much better cards to play.

(This from an old man who finally gave in to his control soul and disdains aggro with a passion. Maybe somebody can see an aggro deck in your draft. But that's the beauty of Magic.)

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:58 pm 
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Mire's Malice is almost always better than Witness the End.
You need to run your fliers, and I don't understand running an 0/6 wall and several 2/2s. Your creatures don't work very will with Alyi other than Soverign.

17 lands minimum for this deck.

So:
+1 Swamp
+1 Plains
+1 Mire's Malice
+1 Eldrazi Displacer
+1 Expedition Raptor (note: combo!)
+1 Kozilek's Translator (good with Displacer and Ayli)
+1 Courier Griffin

-1 Witness the End
-1 Untamed Hunger
-1 Culling Drone
-1 Kor Scythmaster
-1 Dominator Drone
-1 Searing Light (side board)
-1 Silent Skimmer

Silent Skimmer is OK, I think it's slightly worse than Mire's Malice? Also not 100% on Kor Entanglers in this deck... I think the Chainmage is good if you get stalled?

On the plus side -- you actually drafted a good batch of cards in a good color pair!, there are plenty of playables.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:25 am 
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Casting a six drop with 15 lands can be painful.
I'd play displacer anyway, maybe instead of dominator drone, you don't have that many colorless creatures and the third point of toughness is relevant.
Did you find good targets for searing light? Two of them plus the -3/-2 spell seem a lot.(Edit:looking at the deck better removing small blockers makes sense)
You have some good flyers in the side that might have worked better than the 3/1 first strike at attacking.
Also your top end is low enough that mire malice might be better than withness the end.



You are right, I should have cut Felidar Sovereign. I actually only drew it once in the final match and I had the mana to cast it, but had other cards that I rather play at that moment. I think that I told myself that it could have been a decent defender that could attack and gain life, but now in retrospect I would have preferred using Mire's Malice, Eldrazi Displacer or Kozilek's Shrieker.

Searing Light was amazing, it helped me get rid of early attacking creatures. In round 1, it took care of Dimensional Infiltrator and Stormchaser Mage. I won that match 2-0. I kept Isolation Zone and Oblivion Strike for bigger creatures while Searing Light removed smaller ones.

The Kor Scythemaster was more useful than it might seem: often people weren't willing to block it since it would mean losing a creature when I wouldn't. In round 2, I was able to take down Barrage Tyrant with Kor Scythemaster because the guy was at 2 Life and kept blocking every turn hoping to survive. Ended up finishing him with Witness the End. The Kor Scythemaster often got underestimated and got blocked by Kozilek's Pathfinder and I'd use Tar Snare.

You are right about the other flyers, I was thinking about using them but they didn't have the ally subtype. I was relying on using my other ally cards to either tap, give first trike or cohort to make opponent lose life, it is why they didn't make the cut. But I might of have been able to won the final match if I could get passed the opponent's defense. My previous matches went pretty well since I would remove threats as they popped and keep attacking with little resistance but the last opponent kept stalling with scions and by returning creatures to my hand or on top of my library until he would play beefier eldrazi like Birthing Hulk and World Breaker. Maybe if I used more fliers, I would have been able to get more damage through in time...

I agree that the dominator drone needed more colorless creatures to be worth it, I cast it almost every match but was able to get it's ability only once due to having a creature land from Wall of Resurgence.

I should have used the Eldrazi Displacer, like you said: the 3rd point in toughness did cause an issue when I needed to decide if I would block or not.



Thanks for taking the time to reply, it is appreciated.


V.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 4:43 am 
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Of course, the 'look at my cardpool and tell me how I could have built a better deck' discussion is one that makes a lot more sense for sealed, rather than for draft. In draft, the deckbuilding was part of the drafting process. How you could have built a better deck has a lot more to do with the 252 cards you saw but didn't draft, than it has to do with the 14 on-color cards you drafted but didn't play.

I really would have drafted to support the P1P1 Displacer. As noted above, you probably should've played it anyway, because White seldom does better than a 3/3 for 3 even in vanilla.

Kolizek's Translator is a good card that I'd usually run (and look, it can power Displacer!), though with your deck it would pretty much *be* the top end, rather than get you there (only Felidar Sovereign being more than Translator's casting cost). I'd also usually run Shrieker, but again its use is reliant on being able to power its ability (or get value out of its colorless-ness, or ideally both);

From what I've seen, OGW limited is a slugfest . Searing Light and Tar Snare are removal that aim too low by default, though excellent sideboard additions against decks loaded with small guys.


Heya, thanks for taking replying!

You are totally right about the cards that I drafted but didn't use not being as relevant as posting all the cards that passed through my hand. I was trying to commit to memory and count the cards that were being taken by opponents but I got distracted by a guy who picked a foil Mirrorpool and gave up, someone told me that it helps if you make a song with the cards using a familiar jingle but the guys around me looked at me weird when i hummed the song...

What I did notice is that everyone was grabbing the colorless lands, and I was scared of getting stuck having a card not being very useful because I couldn't power its ability. But I realise now that I should have used it just for the basic value of a 3/3 for 3. I guess that since the others were concentrating on grabbing the devoid eldrazi cards, i was going for white allies or black removal.

But I will keep in mind your observation for the next draft. Maybe I will have better success if I try to focus on getting the colorless manas to be able to power the abilities.


Thanks again for your insight.

V.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:04 am 
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Zlehtnoba wrote:
As mark said, hard to say what you could have had just by looking at what you got. In BFZ, cards of a color were famously split between archetypes and just picking a good on-color card would not always work, since it might just be a bad fit for your deck - like Halimar Tidecaller with no awaken cards. OGW seems like it might be a bit less synergistic, but you still need to think about how you want your deck to function (that aggro-midrange-control thing) in order to have a good draft.

Displacer is a great card. More so as you picked up some CIP creatures like Courier Griffin and Kor Entaglers. With what you have, I'd prefer a more controlling build, playing the five-drop white fliers. You are simply not aggresive anough to make Kor Scythemaster into a good card. It does not belong in the same deck with Makindi Aeronaut. And your best cards are control, not aggro. The Wall is especially great in a stall-the-ground, win-in-the-air strategy. Basically, you attack in the air, block on the ground, and remove any fliers/bombs they manage to play.

So: displacer, both gliders, griffin, raptor, shrieker, three lands go in, drones, scythemasters, Searing light (you can probably just block anything with that low power) go out. The rest of the cuts is tricky, since your cards are good.

Ups. Untamed Hunger. That is another easy cut. It might even be playable in some decks, against some opponents, but not here. You have much better cards to play.

(This from an old man who finally gave in to his control soul and disdains aggro with a passion. Maybe somebody can see an aggro deck in your draft. But that's the beauty of Magic.)


Heya, thanks for replying!

I was hoping to go for a hybrid deck that could be part agressive and control since I did not have a very strong midrange strategy. Ideally I would have liked to be able to clear small initial creatures and then play my 3 mana cost creatures to do damage while removing anything the opponent plays using the -3/-2 when they block or exiling bigger stuff.

I think that you are right about the deck not being very good at aggressive play. I did succeed more due to the controlling cards that helped remove cards from my opponent's hand or my opponent's creatures from the board. I wasn't able to pull out my synergy plan with the ally subtype but still managed to do well despite of that. The plan was to get my allies to pass through due to opponents' defenders getting tapped or my allies all getting first strike.

I can see why Untamed Hunger wasn't as useful as I thought it would be. When I added it, I thought it could help compensate for low attack power of creatures that I had. A +2/+1 boost to just about any creature would have helped but I only drew the card once and my creature got exiled the following turn by Titan's Presence

The biggest problem I encountered was against my final opponent that had many cheap blockers to stall the game until his bigger creatures came out. By then, I could hardly get through and the game ended stalling out and being draw. If I added the flyers and eldrazi that you suggested, I think that I could of punched through.

I will try to add and remove the cards that you suggested and play the deck abit against myself to see if I like how it comes out, thank you for the insight and suggestions.


All the best,
V.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:21 am 
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Zenbitz wrote:
Mire's Malice is almost always better than Witness the End.
You need to run your fliers, and I don't understand running an 0/6 wall and several 2/2s. Your creatures don't work very will with Alyi other than Soverign.

17 lands minimum for this deck.

So:
+1 Swamp
+1 Plains
+1 Mire's Malice
+1 Eldrazi Displacer
+1 Expedition Raptor (note: combo!)
+1 Kozilek's Translator (good with Displacer and Ayli)
+1 Courier Griffin

-1 Witness the End
-1 Untamed Hunger
-1 Culling Drone
-1 Kor Scythmaster
-1 Dominator Drone
-1 Searing Light (side board)
-1 Silent Skimmer

Silent Skimmer is OK, I think it's slightly worse than Mire's Malice? Also not 100% on Kor Entanglers in this deck... I think the Chainmage is good if you get stalled?

On the plus side -- you actually drafted a good batch of cards in a good color pair!, there are plenty of playables.


Thanks for the reply,

My reasoning behind the Wall of Resurgence was that it could give me a good defender and a 3/3 atker on 4th turn. I played Kor Scythemaster on 3rd turn and the wall on 4th, then attacked with my land and Kor Scythemaster together, seemed effective.

I was depending on the Kor Entanglers helping me punch through the defence, it is why I was grabbing allies. It did not workout as I hoped. But I think that I would have had a better turnout if I added the displacer, translator, griffin and raptor and removed some of the allies.

I had 0 land issues in all my matches, but maybe it was just luck. I usually would put 17 lands and would flood every game, it is why I tried to go with 15. Maybe I did okay only because most of my cards were pretty cheap to cast, if my deck had heavier casting costs, I could have been in trouble.

I agree with your suggestions for cards to remove and add except for the removing witness the end part. I thought that those helped me out a lot, my opponents had a hard time choosing what to exile from their hands everytime. It got rid of good cards for me. Did you suggest to remove it because there was another in the deck or because you think that it is not good enough? Why is it mire's malice better? I mean no disrespect, I would just like to understand the reasoning so that I can make better decisions next time.


Thanks,
V.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 5:03 pm 
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Mire's Malice and Witness The End and fundamentally the same in that both are cost cards that rip 2 cards out of your opponent's hand. So the only differences being that Witness exiles the cards, is devoid-colorless, and causes a paltry bonus lifeloss, while Mire's Malice simply discards the cards but can also Awaken one of your lands as a 3/3.

Your deck wasn't getting value out of colorless spells
Your deck wasn't getting value out of opponent cards-in-exile (processors)
A 3/3 creature is a far more relevant bonus than 2 lifeloss, even if that means putting more mana into it in that circumstance.

IMHO, Mire's Malice isn't always the better card. But in this deck it would have been.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:22 am 
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The deck is weird since it lacks bombs, but has a surprising reach for the color combo due to all the small life loss triggers plus things to get in for early damage,add that is lacking most of the best 2 drop options and I-m not sure anymore that you want a 3&3 on turn six instead of 2 damage.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:00 am 
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Mire's Malice and Witness The End and fundamentally the same in that both are cost cards that rip 2 cards out of your opponent's hand. So the only differences being that Witness exiles the cards, is devoid-colorless, and causes a paltry bonus lifeloss, while Mire's Malice simply discards the cards but can also Awaken one of your lands as a 3/3.

Your deck wasn't getting value out of colorless spells
Your deck wasn't getting value out of opponent cards-in-exile (processors)
A 3/3 creature is a far more relevant bonus than 2 lifeloss, even if that means putting more mana into it in that circumstance.

IMHO, Mire's Malice isn't always the better card. But in this deck it would have been.



Hmm, I see your point but I am not sure if I agree with it simply because of the heavy awaken cost. I thought that I'd want to play the card-denials asap to limit the opportunities for my opponent to retaliate to my board state on turn 5 and onward. In my mind, losing 2 cards on turn 4 seems more of a pain than losing 2 on 6th turn, even if I would get an extra 3/3 land creature.

I guess I was also worried of being stuck trying to get the mana to awaken and have my opponent play their cards during that time. But, I am not very good at this, so I could be missing a big point that I am unable to see...

BTW, I appreciate you taking the time to explain to me the difference between the cards, it actually helped me see the situational pros and cons of using Mire's Malice vs Witness the End, I intend to use that same kind of way of looking at cards the next time I draft.

I guess a lot of these things come easy for the more experienced players, but when I was under pressure due to the timer to make a decision, everything seemed 'plausible' as a option and could work.


Thanks again,
V.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:58 pm 
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What I don't get is how you were able to apply pressure early in a lot of the games. Your game plan, as reported in the post where you described your games, is solid, a classic aggro approach. But the cards are simply not there! You have two aggressive early drops, and that's it.

I can see why you preferred the four-mana Mind Rot to the six-mana one, and why you were aggressive with your removal. But if you don't draw a Scythemaster, you have no good attacks. All you can do is trade removal for their early drops to keep your early drops alive, and hope they don't stabilize with strong plays that outclass your creatures. Which seems like it should happen a lot. I'm happy you did well, and I hope next time you do even better, by building a deck that can do consistently what yours did, I can't help but feel, with some lucky draws.

Again, I like what you were trying to do; just try for a bit more focus next time :)

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:49 pm 
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I may not know a thing or two about best common creatures in any one color but Expedition Raptor makes a strong case for the title,
Also little know fact you cannot cast courier griffin and lose the game.

3-1's sound better than 2-1's said the Mire's Malice to the Witness the Ends

ya might toss in a land or 3, the little pamphlets aren't lying when they say 17-18 lands and 2/3 of spells being creatures. you can always make a decent deck if you follow those little tips
17-18 lands
2/3 creatures (roughly 14-17)
no more than 1 drop no more than 1 6+ drop
even mix at the 2-3-4 mana spot
2 colors
40 cards

and those are just guidelines for a standard basic draft deck. you can experiment with different ideas and have success

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:01 pm 
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That's actually a good point, if you are (crazily) playing 15 or 16 lands then yeah, I guess witness is better because you are 0% going to cast it with awaken so 2 damage. But getting to 6-7 mana in 3xBFZ was nearly a given, and every deck played 18 lands... so clearly Mire's Malice is better there because getting 3/3 (at the cost of risking a land) with your Mind Rot is pretty good.

I think one can argue that if you have a build where Witness the End is even close to Mire's Malice, you should probably play neither and play another dude or even a combat trick. Save the mind rot effect for the side board.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 3:42 am 
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I think Mind Rot is fine in an aggro deck. Once they are behind on board and topdecking, it's hard for them to come back. It is a unique effect that can prevent top-end plays that just another creature can do nothing about. You might want to board it out against another fast deck, butit's fine when you're the aggressor. It wins games.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:00 pm 
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Zlehtnoba wrote:
What I don't get is how you were able to apply pressure early in a lot of the games. Your game plan, as reported in the post where you described your games, is solid, a classic aggro approach. But the cards are simply not there! You have two aggressive early drops, and that's it.

I can see why you preferred the four-mana Mind Rot to the six-mana one, and why you were aggressive with your removal. But if you don't draw a Scythemaster, you have no good attacks. All you can do is trade removal for their early drops to keep your early drops alive, and hope they don't stabilize with strong plays that outclass your creatures. Which seems like it should happen a lot. I'm happy you did well, and I hope next time you do even better, by building a deck that can do consistently what yours did, I can't help but feel, with some lucky draws.

Again, I like what you were trying to do; just try for a bit more focus next time :)



Heya, thanks for the support and the kind words.

It is very possible that the outcome of my matches had to do something with luck because I always had a mix of starting creatures and early removal. Turn 3 or 4 is where I would usually start applying pressure and before that I would rely on Searing Light. Once they lose a few creatures, they become a bit more weary about attacking carelessly. Even with the small creatures, my opponents would tend to not block out of fear of losing their strong ones due to me using Tar Snare. I think that my opponents lost their bigger creatures to witness the end and they were relying on drawing something to save them.

The only trouble I had was during the match in the finals, the guy would keep stalling and by the time his World Breaker and other biggies were out, I was all out of steam and the game ended draw.

The idea was to try something new, sort of go against the flow. Since every other player was going for colorless manas and beefy creature, I decided to go for the opposite and try to take as many duplicate cards to make the deck more 'consistent'. I think that in a way it did work well since my opponents weren't sure how to respond to my deck. The mistake I made is being too confident that I could punch through with just the smaller creatures and the ally synergy.

I did try the deck alone with your earlier suggestions and it did come out better, I am pretty confident that it would have won the final match with those modifications but I'm not sure if it would of been fast enough against my first opponent that played Blue Red instant spells and prowess creatures. The second was a Red Green Landfall with colorless and used Sure Strike and Brute Strength on his creatures...

Truth be told, I would of liked to get more removal spells in the deck and less allies. I didn't get much from the ally synergy. Searing Light, Witness the End, Tar Snare, Isolation Zone and Oblivion Strike are what carried me to the finals.

Your analysis of how my deck looks and my game plan helped me take notice of flaws and where I need to improve. I also need to learn how to see the potential of the cards when I'm assembling them.

I hope to be able to bring good news from the next draft that I go to. The best I would usually do is 5th place but this time people that would throw me around like a ragdoll were reconsidering their options carefully, even their mustache was trembling.

Thanks again,
V.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:41 am 
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Mire's Malice was actually the result of a controversial design decision at WotC to try putting the flavor text in the top right corner of the card.

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