It is currently Sun Dec 01, 2024 6:29 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 812 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28 ... 41  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:59 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan 30, 2015
Posts: 901
Location: London, England
_ Aligned Hedron Network, probably can be cut, but I like it as a surprise 1 of. Loved Nighthawk's reaction to it after he slammed Woodland Wanderer on the table G3. Worst comes to worst it's something to tap with rogue or a prowess trigger for abbot, or a thopter factory for the other network. Could replace with Molten Vortex if you have no fear of 6 sweeper decks into Ulamog. Me, I'm a pussy.

I've been playing with that list and I like it a lot. You're completely right about Agregates (though I still haven't pulled 3 of them from packs, so I dropped Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh in it's place)

As to the Hedron question, I went with Part the Waterveil instead. Just going around big creatures 2 turns in a row is a winner, I think.

The one big change I made was removing 2 Gates for Blighted Gorge just for a bit more damage if needed.


Hmm Part the Waterveil is interesting especially as I am running a slightly more aggressive version of Rabble's list, will have to give that a try instead of AHN, although AHN has saved me from Woodland Wanderer a few times.

Disagree with the shock land as that is terrible losing a land and 5 CMC for a shock... no thanks.

_________________
DARKSHOCK'S DUNGEON - http://forum.nogoblinsallowed.com/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=14407


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:10 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 28, 2014
Posts: 4373
I'd stick with the Hedron over Part the Waterveil, only because 4 out of 5 games have been Ramp, and 2 of those played Omnath ahead of the curve. That could have gone VERY nasty since he is something that gets out of control fast with no answer, and even if I did, I'd lose a creature or life to do so. With the Hedron, I'm exiling him hopefully just long enough to kill my opponent (or long enough that a subsequent Reclamation Sage will be too late to save him). Part the Waterveil would mean I still have to swing into him, and if the Awakened Land is swinging, chances are Omnath will block/die and result in the same scenario.

_________________
^ NGA's resident embodiment of "Poe's Law".


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:35 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan 30, 2015
Posts: 901
Location: London, England
I never see a 10 land game with Thopters so the question would be if swinging over top of Omnath with flyers/unblockable two turns in a row will be enough to win on T6. As normally I am playing T4 Flameshadow, T5 Rouge/P&K, T6 could be nice swing then on 2nd turn Chief x2 FTW.

_________________
DARKSHOCK'S DUNGEON - http://forum.nogoblinsallowed.com/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=14407


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:43 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 28, 2014
Posts: 4373
If you have the ability to consistently hit that board state (multiple chief's etc) then that would absolutely be the pick. The way I see it, having insurance vs the meta deck archetype in a deck that is weak to that archetype is the bigger plus over 1 turn that could still result in a loss vs a minimum of 2 turns if the Hedron gets Sage'd.

_________________
^ NGA's resident embodiment of "Poe's Law".


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:04 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan 30, 2015
Posts: 901
Location: London, England
The second Chief was the Flameshadow token :) and dream scenario.

But even without Flameshadow showing up you would often have a T3 Aggregate, T4 WR/P&K, T5 Chief, T6x2 with that board should be game over.

_________________
DARKSHOCK'S DUNGEON - http://forum.nogoblinsallowed.com/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=14407


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:54 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan 10, 2016
Posts: 474
Hi Spaceknight and welcome :)

First off, as callmemaggit implied, Bellows Lizard should be replaced ASAP. You could go with a full 4 copies of Foundry Street Denizen since you run a lot of red creatures. Mage Ring Bully is also a nice 2 drops that in a lot of cases is the better play than Abbott (2 toughness helps prevent twin bolt 2-for-1)

I'd go:

-3 Anchor to the Ether +3 Telling Time. Cheaper blue spell, instant speed for prowess, helps filter top decks you don't want to see.
-2 Bellows Lizard, +2 Foundry Street Denizen. This will improve the consistency of you main 1 drop.
-4 Faerie Miscreants, +4 Mage Ring Bully. I'm not huge on this Fae, and you have a lot of 1 drops. This guy helps with prowess too.

I'd try those first, as there's other suggestions I could make but they're preference based.


Is Lavastep Raider as hated as the lizard? Was looking for something to throw mana into later game for a killing blow, that's the only reason he's there.

Prowess actually wasn't on my mind with this build. The Abbot is to get the extra card draw for a deck that throws lots of 1+2 cost on the table fast. Obviously the Thief is for drawing, too, prowess is just a nice add-on. So my preference for Ether is that it will slow the opponent down by basically removing an entire turn of their defense. As much as I love Mage Ring Bully in other decks, not what I had in mind here. (Generally, Ether is one of my favorite cards in this pool. To the point where opponents' Clutch of Currents make me wonder whey they're not using Ether.)

Back on the Faeries vs the Bully, maybe it's my perception, but I feel a lot of decks aren't ready to defend a quick drop with flying. That makes them great to hit with Titan or Bloodlust.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:02 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 28, 2014
Posts: 4373
If that's what you're aiming for and enjoy go for it. Just seems like you're slowing the Izzet deck down for personal preference, and that will be punished by faster ramp decks or faster aggro from RDW, but play what you enjoy :)

Yes, Lavastep Rider (although by no means amazing) would be preferable to the Lizard. Harder to 2-for-1 with Twin Bolt, and it's pump does a bit more.

_________________
^ NGA's resident embodiment of "Poe's Law".


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:54 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan 10, 2016
Posts: 474
so back on my initial question, besides the Lavastep Rider, what else can I do to this 3 month old deck with new cards? can I keep the theme but give it more punch with anything else new? I keep scrolling the card list and feel like I can't find inspiration.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:27 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Feb 13, 2015
Posts: 4303
what do you mean? inspiration is right there


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:03 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 26, 2015
Posts: 350
Location: Belgium
Since Nighthawk will be uploading the games we had together, might as well post the Thopter list I 'm using for those that are curious. It's pretty standard :

3 x Runed Servitor
4 x Perilous Myr
2 x Abbot of Keral Keep
4 x Twin bolt

3 x Pilgrim's Eye
3 x Chief of the Foundry
3 x Vile Aggregate
3 x Thopter Engineer
2 x Exquisite Firecraft

3 x Whirler Rogue
1 x Akoum Firebird
2 x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 x Thopter Spy Network
1 x Aligned Hedron Network

7 x Island
8 x Mountain
2 x Sulfur falls
4 x Izzet Guildgate
3 x Foundry of the Consuls


_ Don't skimp on the abbots : the games show why those buggers are good, yes also in Duels, even though I misplay in game 1 and tap the wrong mana, I could've had a Whirler Rogue from him. VS Rakdos I build a trade + force him to use up his mana just to kill the abbot + make his aggregate harmless. Even T2 he's decent because he can put out pressure vs control and made unblockable with Rogue to push him through chumps.

_ Akoum Firebird is good enough on his own. You don't care if it dies and in this sweeper fest environment manasinks are lurvely.

_ Agregates feel better than Reclusive Artificer because of the evasion, but mainly because of the gigantic butt; which survives almost all non-white weepers. Languish/flames my myr + Pilgrim's eye + Aggregate? Fine; you take 2. 'untaps'... Here's a Runed Servitor and a Thopter engineer, you take 6. Did you want cheese with that?
I'm not a fan of the vial + esperzoa like Hakeem because the landtax is just too much for a spike list. Get your card advantage on the board.

_ Aligned Hedron Network, probably can be cut, but I like it as a surprise 1 of. Loved Nighthawk's reaction to it after he slammed Woodland Wanderer on the table G3. Worst comes to worst it's something to tap with rogue or a prowess trigger for abbot, or a thopter factory for the other network. Could replace with Molten Vortex if you have no fear of 6 sweeper decks into Ulamog. Me, I'm a pussy.

_ Finally, only 24 land, because the Pilgrim's eyes and the abbots help with this.


Hey, what's up? Seems that Force has chosen this deck to make one of his FNM videos! Check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=621S1RlxO5c

_________________
My Magic Duels You Tube channel: http://www.youtube.com/c/Mackey79


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:12 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 03, 2015
Posts: 1662
Haha, yeah thopters are pretty foolproof :p

Image


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:21 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 31, 2013
Posts: 7350
Location: Newfoundland
I'll watch that GIF all day long and the more it gets re-posted, the happier I am. Thanks Nighthawk. :)

_________________
Check me out on YouTube


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:15 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 26, 2015
Posts: 350
Location: Belgium
Yeah that GIF is damn good! :D

_________________
My Magic Duels You Tube channel: http://www.youtube.com/c/Mackey79


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:19 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jul 27, 2014
Posts: 3782
Location: 3rd rock from the Sun, Milky Way
Identity: BAMF
Preferred Pronoun Set: Beep/Bop/Boop
OK, going to take my foot out of my mouth now...IzzetThopters is a real deck. I know we've been watching Hakeem curb-stomp with it in the Tourney, but I wasn't convinced.

I've been ragging on IzzetThopters since B4Z dropped, but for good reason...I haven't lost to it yet. I'm currently 32-0, according to my notes. Granted, there were some sub-optimal decks and not great players (drop your hand, then I Radiant Flames!), but for the most part they weren't bad.

However, I built one about one and a half weeks ago...and I am 23-3 with it.

So, yeah...

Anyways, here is what I am using:

3 x Fiery Impulse
3 x Clutch of Currents
4 x Perilous Myr
4 x Twin Bolt
3 x Pilgrim's Eye
3 x Chief of the Foundry
3 x Vile Aggregate
3 x Thopter Engineer
2 x Exquisite Firecraft
3 x Whirler Rogue
2 x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 x Akoum Firebird
2 x Thopter Spy Network
7 x Island
8 x Mountain
2 x Sulfur Falls
3 x Foundry of the Consuls
4 x Evolving Wilds


OK, why do I play what I play, since this is a little different than Hakeem special #1 or some of the other decks.

-9 "burn" spells...gets rid of the chaff, plus 7 of them can go to the face.
-3 Clutch of Currents...started testing it out over Disperse, liked it a bit more since it can hit man lands and late game is another attacker that incidentally pumps up Vile Aggregate.
-Speaking of which, Vile Aggregate is here instead of Esperzoa because I'm not going the card advantage route. Also why I don't play Alchemist's Vial. Nothing wrong with them, just not what I am going for. Vile survives most mass removal and most creatures in the deck pump him, plus a few of the spells can as well as land.

Anyways, doing way better than I expected with all the mass removal floating around.

_________________
Magic Arena Discord Server: https://discord.gg/magic


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:29 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 28, 2014
Posts: 4373
@Kryder, finally converted eh? I think for me Aggregate makes this deck. Thopters had the issue where if all they had artifact wise was Thopters, and board wipes occur, then Spy Network (the typical comeback mechanic) was useless until you played another and you lost all that momentum for at least 2 turns. Aggregate survives every board wipe that isn't White and can just be fueled over and over again without having to bounce back artifacts to stay in play.

Also wait, land creatures count as colorless? Makes sense as there's no reason their mana symbol would affect it, and it doesn't read "becomes a land creature the same color(s) of it's mana type". I might look into running 2 x that over Abbott since he's the under performer in my list.

_________________
^ NGA's resident embodiment of "Poe's Law".


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:51 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan 30, 2015
Posts: 901
Location: London, England
Abbott is crap and was my first cut :)

I ended up including 2x Disperse as it can be incredibly useful in bouncing a key creature like aggregate or Rougue in response to a wipe and it also can remove a dangerous attacker for a turn.

_________________
DARKSHOCK'S DUNGEON - http://forum.nogoblinsallowed.com/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=14407


Last edited by -DarkShock- on Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:59 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Oct 28, 2014
Posts: 4373
It'll be a meta choice. Do I protect those creatures? Or are Manlands becoming that common, that Clutch is needed? Well the Manlands I find an issue are the 2 you activate (and one is hexproof) so the sorcery speed kills it TBH, I think I'll go with Disperse.

_________________
^ NGA's resident embodiment of "Poe's Law".


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:52 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Feb 13, 2015
Posts: 4303
Imo, pilgrims eye is the card that keeps thopters competitive, it's basically a garentee that by turn 4 you'll have doubleU and double R which is huge


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:58 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jan 30, 2015
Posts: 901
Location: London, England
That's very true Pilgrim's eye comes up clutch a lot of times, especially for my deck with Flameshadow needing extra red.

_________________
DARKSHOCK'S DUNGEON - http://forum.nogoblinsallowed.com/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=14407


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:59 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Nov 10, 2013
Posts: 17753
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Not having my 2nd blue in game three last night almost cost me that match.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 812 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28 ... 41  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group