The only thing spout has over similar cards is that it denies them their next draw. I just don't care about their draw enough and much prefer Disperse as a bounce effect or disabling 2 creatures over 2 turns.

That discussion is probably meaningless anyway, because I'm pretty sure you want all the 3-power guys and keep the 1-drops for maximum pressure. This leaves only 6 spots for spells and I think Disperse and Clutch are the best. I was wondering about white removal, but they're not as good to push damage through and so far I've always been the beatdown.

What do you think about Evolpea? Awesome synergy with Bond, but it borders on win more and slows the deck down initially. Testing a singleton in place of a Vanguard, because it's not essential and drawing both copies sucks. I don't want it in my opening hand, but it's decent later on. If you don't draw the Bond, you have fewer creatures/cards and this is some kind of insurance. With the Bond you can draw cards until you run out of mana.

Btw, I had a few games with Lantern Scout now and she's amazing. We're running 12 allies now, so the synergy is quite good for her and Warleader.

Actually Retreat would ideally be a T5, 6 cards for T1 seemed enough to me but i might be wrong. A vanguard T3+ just helps going wide but wont have that much of an impact without the ability to pump it... wich retreat does. Btw the more draw, the more lands in hand... Retreat won me a few test games by making use of those lands, but it sure is a tad slower.

The idea was to either pump up or build a wide board while bringing allies to Warleader, but your Lantern Scout swap sure helps in that matter.

I'm test singleton Retreat over Evoleap in this deck btw, as well as 1 Lumbering Falls.

I get your concerns about Spout, it fits better in slower decks indeed. Actually, running 4x Clutch + 2x Disperse + 3x Krasis feels fine.

Really enjoying this deck atm.

I think it's safe to say that Vanguard is the weakest card and a poor topdeck. With so many taplands you can't play him turn 1 most of the time, too. He is still decent if you have no other 2-drop, but maybe it's better to cut him completely. The Elf is just better overall as a 2/2 and the buff ability has been important in some games.

Really good replacements for Vanguard are Woodland Bellower to fetch Bounding Krasis or a Warleader and possibly draw 2 cards. Also worth considering is Hero of Goma Fada. It has good synergy with Lantern Scout and a free swing is always nice.

Question - when do you carve out the time to play Elemental Bond at the cost of advancing your board? "It depends" isn't what I want to hear, lay it out for me.

That was my problem with that card in the first place... I run a slightly different list from Geg now. I'll post it when I get home later today. I'm only running two copies of that card. No elite vanguards, actually, basically no one drops at all. Undefeated online so far, but then again so was the original. (Fair warning, I don't play that much online so we're only talking about 5-6 games total across all builds).

IMO, the deck is very good, and has a lot of ways to build it that are all pretty good, and not very different in terms of their results.

Easy: Asap! Even when my opponent has an empty board and I get free damage with 1-2 creatures, I play this before I play my creatures. The only exception would be, if I really couldn't risk taking any more damage and needed blockers immediately. The point is, if I play my creatures and they manage to stabilize somehow, I gambled away my advantage. If Bond remains unanswered for some time, I'm not afraid to give them more turns - I'm totally fine cycling through my deck with a cantrip on every creature.

Same as with Flameshadow conjuring, lol

Okay, so after some more thoughts, here's where I settled with this deck:

Bant - Aggro Control v2 (original here)

1 x Kytheon, Hero of Akros
3 x Dauntless River Marshal
4 x Kor Castigator
2 x Felidar Cub
1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

4 x Clutch of Currents
1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 x Disperse

1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2 x Elemental Bond
2 x Woodland Wanderer

3 x Skyrider Elf
2 x Veteran Warleader
3 x Bounding Krasis
3 x Roil Spout

2 x Plains
3 x Island
1 x Swamp
1 x Mountain
2 x Forest
2 x Lumbering Falls
2 x Canopy Vista
2 x Prairie Stream
1 x Hinterland Harbor
2 x Glacial Fortress
2 x Sunpetal Grove
4 x Evolving Wilds


After some thought on the subject, and discussion with Geg, this is where I settled. The deck absolutely cedes the first turn, but after that it runs very smoothly. I still think you mulligan any hand that won't clearly put two power on the board on t2 (note: skyrider is a completely acceptable t2 play). I've had a ton of fun playing it online (still undefeated - but it's just a matter of time, so don't take that statement the wrong way).

The singleton Mountain/Swamp are in there for the potential t5 blowout of a 5/5 flying skyrider elf. It's probably stupid to do this to the mana base (but so far it's been beneficial to the deck). Obviously, removing the two unused mana sources would allow for a more consistent mana base, but right now I think this is correct. Definitely do not search for the other two mana unless you already have everything else you need (e.g. at least one of each color WUG). And if (in extremely rare events) you get both the mountain and the swamp in an opening hand, it's probably best to mulligan (hopefully this never happens though).

I take no credit for this list because it is a few cards shy of being the bant list posted by Babs, im posting it here that I may link to it.

Bantastic Voyage
4 x Fog
1 x Jace, Vyrn's Prodigy
4 x Elvish Visionary
4 x Alchemist's Vial
2 x Disperse
1 x Nissa, Vast wood Seer
3 x Sphinx's Tutelage
3 x Hydrolash
3 x Artificer's Epiphany
3 x Brilliant Spectrum
1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 x Planar Outburst
1 x Tragic Arrogance
1 x Angelic Edict
1 x Greenwarden of Murasa
1 x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 x Plains
4 x Island
2 x Forest
1 x Sunken Hollow
2 x Canopy Vista
2 x Prairie Stream
1 x Woodland Cemetery
2 x Hinterland Harbor
2 x Glacial Fortress
2 x Sunpetal Grove
4 x Evolving Wilds


Worth noting that this exact list carried me to 40 and beyond

Again, incorporating some kind suggestions from CGB

Pastoraa 2.0 (a recurring Willbreaker/sac control-combo deck)

3 x Dauntless River Marshal
2 x Felidar Cub
2 x Gideon's Reproach
1 x Reprisal
1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3 x Gatecreeper vine
2 x Evolutionary Leap

2 x Spell shrivel
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2 x Retreat to Kazandu
3 x Bounding krasis

1 x Woodland Wanderer
2 x From beyond
1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 x Suppression Bonds

2 x Planar Outburst
2 x Willbreaker

1 x Drowner of Hope

2 x Emeria Shepherd

1 x Ulamog

5 x Plains
3 x Island
4 x Forest
2 x Lumbering Falls
2 x Canopy Vista
2 x Prairie Stream
2 x Hinterland Harbor
2 x Glacial Fortress
1 x Selesnya Guildgate
1 x Azorius Guildgate


It starts to look like something... (one thing, the Guildgates, almost never played, are there to be fetched by the Vines, to fix mana and to not waste Shepherd's plains...)

I sat here for way to long trying to remember what bant list I had posted

I want to say it was actually in the sultai thread, forgive me im too tired to comb through it at the moment

Edit: nope this thread, viewtopic.php?f=52&t=10306&start=140#p392986

So here's where I think I'll settle:

Dark Bant Tempo

Creatures (22)
1 x Kytheon, Hero of Akros
1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
2 x Felidar Cub
3 x Dauntless River Marshal
3 x Skyrider Elf
4 x Kor Castigator
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2 x Veteran Warleader
3 x Bounding Krasis
2 x Woodland Wanderer

Spells (14)
4 x Clutch of Currents
4 x Disperse
2 x Elemental Bond
3 x Roil Spout
1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

Lands (24)
1 x Glacial Fortress
2 x Hinterland Harbor
1 x Swamp
2 x Canopy Vista
2 x Forest
2 x Lumbering Falls
2 x Plains
2 x Prairie Stream
2 x Shambling Vent
1 x Sunpetal Grove
3 x Island
4 x Evolving Wilds


FYI, I'm not 100% sold on the Mana base, but I like it. I may push for a bit more U in the deck, because no blue mana means death, more than anything else. (that may get updated tomorrow as I continue testing the deck)

Fixed it already.

I'm surprised by the shambling vents. I would think too many tap lands would endanger your ability to get early power out.

Sorry, hold that thought... I'm making radical changes to the deck as we speak. Yes, they are a problem for early plays. I'm resolving that issue right now.

I love this deck! I'll hope for an update in the next couple hours before I get on a plane

Why is nissa in ?
-
I went -1 nissa -1 spout +2 drowner of hope. Looks real solid. love the castigators.

Because, reasons? Jk, I wasn't happy with this build last night. I was playing it terribly, but it still wasn't performing as expected - too many situations where I had bad options, and chose the wrong one - the deck was too complex. I'm making some drastic changes to it. Drowner is too expensive, but the deck is going more midrange. Let me get a few games under my belt with the new version to see if it's really the vast improvement I think it is.

So, I think this is where I settle... Sorry for getting ahead of myself a few posts back...

Dark Bant Midrange

Creatures (18)
1 x Felidar Cub
1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3 x Dauntless River Marshal
3 x Skyrider Elf
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
2 x Veteran Warleader
3 x Bounding Krasis
2 x Whirler Rogue
2 x Woodland Wanderer

Spells (17)
4 x Clutch of Currents
3 x Telling Time
4 x Gideon's Reproach
3 x Roil Spout
1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 x Brilliant Spectrum

Lands (25)
1 x Swamp
2 x Canopy Vista
2 x Forest
2 x Glacial Fortress
2 x Hinterland Harbor
2 x Lumbering Falls
2 x Plains
2 x Prairie Stream
2 x Shambling Vent
2 x Sunpetal Grove
3 x Evolving Wilds
3 x Island


Seems to be much better than my original tempo concepts were.

Just finished a test run with this deck... Check out the ending. /phew



P.s.: it was closer than it looks, because I had to Gideon's Reproach the unblockable ingester in order to even get this turn. Yikes. Hard to win against turn 3 tutelage, turn 4 tutelage, but somehow I pulled it off.

If u cast Telling Time there, do u lose?