Joined: Dec 16, 2015 Posts: 12 Location: Gotham City
Identity: Female
Yes, there are some opponents where you know they used task manager. I played a rank 38 guy playing Goblin Piker. Even in a RDW archetype, Piker is terrible.
Welcome to NGA, Ashcarr! Looks like a nice list, I'll give it a go.
Thanks! I was looking around for a place where people shared deck ideas for Duels and this was the first place I found. So many places to find real Magic decks, but Duels, not so much, lol.
Yes, there are some opponents where you know they used task manager. I played a rank 38 guy playing Goblin Piker. Even in a RDW archetype, Piker is terrible.
Welcome to NGA, Ashcarr! Looks like a nice list, I'll give it a go.
Thanks! I was looking around for a place where people shared deck ideas for Duels and this was the first place I found. So many places to find real Magic decks, but Duels, not so much, lol.
Here's the control list I use that vaulted me to rank 40 without having to abuse task manager. The beginning of a match is all about tempo until you start getting to 6+ lands and can either play your threats or awaken your spells.
Deck 1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy 4x Alchemist's Vial - I wanted 8 2CC spells and this slotted in really well as a cantrip, defense before a wipe, and offensive finisher. 3x Telling Time 3x Fleshbag Marauder 2x Scatter to the Winds 3x Roil Spout - As a 3 mana return to top, it's quite good. Making a 4/4 body while also putting a creature on top is crazy. Why does no one play this? 2x Suppression Bonds - White control lists have opted for Felidar Cub, but I like the utility to pin down anything, including Planeswalkers. 3x Coastal Discovery - Yes, it's not instant, but being able to create a 4/4 creature out of nowhere and getting the draw is quite good. 2x Languish 1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar 1x Disciple of the Ring 3x Cruel Revival 2x Planar Outburst - Because a lot of your wins will come from lands turned into creatures, this card is almost unfair. 1x Ob Nixilis Reignited 1x Sire of Stagnation - Sometimes I feel like I should cut it, but then I play against a ramp deck again and remember how ridiculous it is. 1x Oblivion Sower - It feels a little awkward sometimes, but even when you get lands that aren't in your colors, you can still use them as awaken targets. 1x Part the Waterveil - I could see this being cut for a cheaper spell, but I liked it and plays into the land based assault this deck has going for it. 1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Here's the control list I use that vaulted me to rank 40 without having to abuse task manager. The beginning of a match is all about tempo until you start getting to 6+ lands and can either play your threats or awaken your spells.
Deck 1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy 4x Alchemist's Vial - I wanted 8 2CC spells and this slotted in really well as a cantrip, defense before a wipe, and offensive finisher. 3x Telling Time 3x Fleshbag Marauder 2x Scatter to the Winds 3x Roil Spout - As a 3 mana return to top, it's quite good. Making a 4/4 body while also putting a creature on top is crazy. Why does no one play this? 2x Suppression Bonds - White control lists have opted for Felidar Cub, but I like the utility to pin down anything, including Planeswalkers. 3x Coastal Discovery - Yes, it's not instant, but being able to create a 4/4 creature out of nowhere and getting the draw is quite good. 2x Languish 1x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar 1x Disciple of the Ring 3x Cruel Revival 2x Planar Outburst - Because a lot of your wins will come from lands turned into creatures, this card is almost unfair. 1x Ob Nixilis Reignited 1x Sire of Stagnation - Sometimes I feel like I should cut it, but then I play against a ramp deck again and remember how ridiculous it is. 1x Oblivion Sower - It feels a little awkward sometimes, but even when you get lands that aren't in your colors, you can still use them as awaken targets. 1x Part the Waterveil - I could see this being cut for a cheaper spell, but I liked it and plays into the land based assault this deck has going for it. 1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Forced to mull to 6 on draw. I have a barely playable hand with lots of taplands and a jace. He goes T3 tutelage T4 spectrum (no untapped third land for counter) Mills me for 10. I flip Jace , play a cub, kill tutelage,+ jace mire the cub.
Opponent plays another tutelage hurrrdurrrr Cub it again + Jace, play a vent.
Opponent : Concedes.
I mill AI with Jace emblem chumping with endless thopters. L.O.L.
WIN.
That was an adorable first game. Stay tuned for future updates
G2 VS Rank 40 Boros Allies
Nothing much to say. Allies suck? He has a curve of 1,2,3, I have a cub, an awry and a gideon, stall with thopters to follow with an Outburst +Scatter double whammy and Ob nixilis the turn after. Notable dead draws : 2x Dispel.
WIN
G3 vs Rank 35 Go Wide Goblins
I'm on the play and I got an evolving wilds, a foundry, a chapel, a flare, an awry, an epiphany, and a vial. HMMMM try it I guess.
I survive and outburst 3 for 1 t5 at 13 life.
I stabilize and at 7 life attack with vent into an empty board, awry nr2 is up. Subsequent Gideon and further counters demolish his 20 land deck, even though he sneaks through an avaricious dragon.
I'll be damned. 3/0. Who'dathunkit.
WIN
That's 3 out of 3 games where the artifact package does work. Previously unmentioned, but in the allies game the foundries were crucial to protect Gideon.
Let's be clear though: I drew Gideon early + a whipe 2 out of 3 games; and besides RDW (where I was on the play, which is huge) I haven't met any A tier lists yet. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. I'm still pretty sure the dodgy mana and the double cost overreliance is gonna bite me in the ass long term.
G4 vs rank 40 Azorius fliers
He's on the play, gets 2 terns out. I counter his first drake, a rogue, but he just keeps spamming dudes, no respect for boardwhipes. I see 23 cards and never find a whipe. gg lolnext
LOSS
G5 vs rank 38 converge good stuff
Easily control the board. Then he drops nissa with 12 land on the table. I have two thopters in play, but cannot do 4 damage total next turn, and I have a shrivel and a Scatter. 'but wait, if I scatter this, I'll probably be unable to shrivel ulamog later.' 'what are you gonna do, allow him to draw 4/5 cards before you can kill nissa?' Many turns later, Ulamog gets cast and I have alot of irrelevant **** in hand and oh, a spell shrivel.
DECK NEEDS BONDS OR EDICTS
LOSS
G6 vs Rank 30sthg Temur....Midrange?
Never figured out wether his build was any good. He kept a twolander hand, got stuck, so I got to awry all his skyriders and go nuts in the mid game, just toyed with thopters before swinging in with a massive disciple.
WIN (bit of a dud game though)
g7 vs rank 40 Temur Ramp
Forced to mull to 6 on the draw, settle on a hand of prairie stream, vent, plains, awry, outburst and telling time. Not bad. Get mossed T4. Never see another land, concede turn 7. LOSS
Jace gets Splintered but not before he fixes my mana further with telling time, he has a double Thrall into Smothering abomination, but Languish into Ob nixilis puts him so far behind that I get to kill him with Ultimate. Thopters + Network+ Obni emblem quickly chains into alot of damage. pretty neat.
WIN
G9 vs rank 40 Orzhov Allies
This guy tried to play conservatively vs the control deck; but the matchup is just so horrible. He has a 2 drop, but I counter 3 drop with Awry, and he spends the next 3 turns falling for my bluff of 'yo I got 2 blue up mate'. I drop an ob nixilis t5 and kill his only board presence. He reacts with suppression bonds. Jace followup, he slams Kytheon's irregulars and a kalastria healer; he manages to evade the first languish that I tap out for with tandem tactics (neat). So I just play a land I had been sandbagging and stop his irregulars from attacking next turn with Vial. Languish again next turn, play a cub and reactivate ob nixilis. I put him out of his misery with emblemed thopters + vents. Allies keep failing to impress.
WIN
g10 vs Rank 40 G/B/U/W control
Too long to really explain. Have to take damage from wheenies forever, since I can't seem to draw any lands beyond 5, and am unwilling to whipe without counter backup. I discard to Handsize twice. I then fight through 2 shepherds, a Jace + Gideon, I get Ulamoged when i'm at 6 land, somehow survive all of it. FINALLY win thanks to Disciple of the Ring (aka, bestest card ever) making each shrivel cost ALOT of mana ; Finish with emblemed thopter army + buffed disciple in one neat swing. 6 cards left in library
WIN
Last edited by Goblin Rabblemaster on Wed Jan 06, 2016 2:09 pm, edited 26 times in total.
Joined: Jul 11, 2015 Posts: 1082 Location: Somewhere in Time
I get that control likes draw, but I think you've gone overkill and are win con light.
And being Esper and not having Suppression Bonds or Angelic Edict is wrong. The former is very versatile and handles planeswalkers and the later is also very versatile and one of the few outs to Ulamog if resolved. I get that you're counter heavy but having access to the best removal in the game and not running it seems a little weird: this deck is going to force long games and Shrivel and Awry won't cut it all the time.
Also if you ever plan to take this deck into THG (which FYI if built right Esper is amazing in) then the removal heavy variant is preferable and works just as well in single player.
I'd make room for Sower and Ulamog: dead early, yes, but long game they're amazing.
I'm not saying I disagree with you. IMO you make valid points (mainly disagree with Ucastablemog and Vanilla5/8 for this approach). But this isn't my deck. I'm testing it to supply data. Thanks for the input though !
Last edited by Goblin Rabblemaster on Sun Jan 03, 2016 7:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Unless I've overlooked something, doesn't that list only have the foundries and two vials to turn on the spy networks? That doesn't seem like enough. Personally, I haven't found spy network to be reliable with fewer than six artifact cards in the list, not including foundry.
Actually there's so much draw in the deck that you are very likely to hit one of the 5 activators. Regarding the deck being win-con light, I disagree - all planeswalker are wincon themselves.
The only issue I have is the fact that the deck has no answer for a Planewalker. Suppression Bonds could help quite a bit there.
7/3 Not quite the 90% club for steam so far, but it certainly passes muster.
_ The Foundry / vial plan has convinced me, although maybe 1 extra vial may be a good idea because holding up 6 mana, even in this deck, to bluff counters into Thopters is reaaaaaaallly slow. This type of extremely slow play works fine in Standard with stuff like Ugin and Mage-Ring network, but I feel Duels control is a bit too fragile for it.... maybe.
_ In the 10 games, I basically had dispel stuck in my hand/ discarded it to handsize/epiphany in 9 of them. In the last game I countered my own reprisal with it to shave a _turn of the clock with disciple Maybe I missed a play where I could've 'next leveled' a guy into playing into dispel, but there's a reason why I'm not on the pro tour.
_ It's not like you can't answer resolved planeswalkers with thopters/vents/dorks, but it's a very hazardous proposition. A resolved Ulamog means you either Flare it or tap/vial it and win through it VERY quickly (bit hard with a slow as molasses deck). I'm pretty sure I'd prefer 2 Suppression bonds to the 2 dispel tbh.
_ The Foundries as said before work well; but it carries a steep cost in the manafixing. I feel like I got pretty lucky in these 10 games to not lose to moss/colourscrew more often. I'd say that if people play alot of Moss, THIS version of Esper seems maybe not optimal.
_ Overall though, this is a great build, and alot of fun to play if you are patient and can handle the occasional 'why didn't I draw that shrivel last turn' thing control decks have going on.
Me and CGB has disagreements over our ultimate versions of the deck. I opt for 3x Island 2x Plains 1x Swamp, where as he went for 2 of each and cut an Evolving Wilds of which I run all 4. Also, he made the same changes I made by cutting 1x Read the Bones and Part the Waterveil for 2x 2-mana spells. He went with Alchemist's Vial where as I went with 2x Disperse.
I am very bold. I would cut the Vial's without fear because I know in every 20 cards I hit 1 Foundry and every 30 cards I hit 1 Network. Thopter Spy Network in this deck is not a play I wish to make on turn 4 but rather a lategame response to low card advantage and board presence because we focus so much in the early game on card quality...quantity is for my late game. Do I care if Thopter Spy Network is dead in my hand...not really because I see Gideon, Ally of Zendikar and Ob Nixilis Reignited as the 3rd and 4th Network, they achieve a similar function. 2x Disperse is a good answer to flipped planeswalkers, it can fog attacks if they go all out for our planeswalkers, it's extra tempo vs. aggro decks that can turn on our 5x counter spells and can bounce enchantments too.
Also, Goblin Rabblemaster, please take out those dotted lines between your spoilers, they will take up too much space.
Yeah, so rest assured I've played enough magic to understand that Network is not a T4 play in this deck (never say never though; I was very happy to get the cost out of the way vs tapped out redblue t4). I've discarded it without a second thought and have used it to its fullest as a wincon. I know it's just 10 games so far of me piloting this specific list, but please read the blurbs before commenting on nothing concrete besides the cosmetics. I udnerstand what we are doing with those cards and I never commented on network being a problem. I have, and if you scroll up, others have made valid points about the deck, however.
Either explain to us why the remarks that surfaced after a 10 run in my playground are irrelevant or give concrete feedback that lights a new angle because I really don't care about your boldness. I would love to hear you explain to me how awesome Dispel is in this deck, for instance.
Anyway I enjoy the build and i'll play another 10 with it before the week is through. So far it has not met the 'meta' yet. Just 9 games vs non griffin contraptions and one RDW.
Trying Rabble's list out. I'll update these as I go.
GAME 1: RDW, baptism through fire. kept a 3 lander with Vial, Flare, Dispel and Telling Time. Vortex hits turn 1 followed by Abbott. Thopter engineer hits so i Flare the token. I play Gideon turn 4 as they did nothing turns 3-4. He Vortex's the knight, Vortex's Gideon and swings to kill him, plays Arsonist. I play vial and keep counter mana open. I play Disciple and try to tap his attackers, block something and it dies to Titan's Strength. I lose hope with 2 Horribly Awry, 1 Disepl and Reprisal in hand. Loss.
GAME 2: Abzan Ramp. Opening hand is 3 land, Vial, Flare, Horribly Awry, Scatter. Play vial turn 2, opponent plays Rogue's Passage and Visionary. I counter a GateVine with Awry as I suspect this is ramp and those won't serve me too well. Opponent gets stuck on 3 land so I counter a 2nd Visionary to keep them lower down on the ramp scale. Plays third visionary, top decks a pillgrimage which I (again) counter so they are kept on 3 mana. Plays offshoot, turn 7 still no land from them, I play Shambling Vent and Felidar Cub. They hit 4th land and try to Suppression Bond the Cub, I use an Awakened Scatter and target the Vent. Ok, this derp plays Moss and DOESNT target the awakened vent...right. I flip Jace, they play Bellower and fetch a Vine. Not even gonna finish the rest of this, Ulamog. Countered, but 'nuff said. Thoptor network sat in hand whole game due to no trigger. Loss.
GAME 3: Abzan Enchants. Opening hand is down to 6 (no lands) 3 lands, Network, Dispel, Ob Nix. Opponent sits on 3 mana for 6 turns, gets replaced by AI, play Ob Nix turn 5. They play From Beyond. I drop Foundry and Network with Ob Nix on 7. Long and short is this. AI doesn't know how to Landfall properly. Win (kinda?)
DECK EDIT: Removing the Dispels. They are relevant in Paper due to the cast-iron guarantee that your creature is getting Exiled/Burned/Destroyed after it resolves. That doesn't seem to happen so much in Duels, the spell may become more relevant when all we have to counter isn't Red burn or Green buffs. Put in 2 more Vials to try and push the Thoptor Network a bit better.
GAME 4: Selesnya Ramp. Didn't keep too much of a track of this one, he played 2 Vines and a Planar Outburst before I won. Something something clubbing seals.
I played against a very similar list last night in my last video (round 3). Deck really doesn't do anything, I just waited it out and eventually had cast more threats than they had answers. If I wasn't recording, I might have just decked them.
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