I'd seriously considerate a couple of Eldrazi Skyspawners...fast fliers are a weakness of this deck, and they fit with the token theme anyways, also Gideon is less of a problem with those...

Normally I'd agree, but there is a lot at the 3 spot. I think removal is better - so splinters, or fleshbags in some combination and amounts. It's not that I don't like Skyspawners, btw, I just don't want to need a lot more blue sources, for not that much added benefit. And even if we end up running whirler rogue (which would obviously add to our blue requirements), Skyspawners aren't really improved by whirler's presence. Better to be on the attack, IMO, and even if they can chump while flying over, we have removal for that. So attack in with Nantucko until they are forced to block, while eliminating big flying threats with removal from Ob and splinters. (Or at least that's my theory on how to handle flying threats).

My first few games didn't go well. I got swarmed by thopters and weenies a few times and my only way to dig for answers was to sac creatures, which didn't really help. The deck has great spot removal, but playing catchup with tokens, I wasn't even sure what card would've saved me.

It was so horrible that I'm currently playing the Languish nonbo.

Weird. I wonder if thopters is making a come back. This deck can't handle thopters right now - or probably ever. Tokens shouldn't have been a problem though.

Thopters are still a good archetype to run in the meta. Especially the 0/5 that gives them +0/+1 on the butt the dodge around Twin Bolt. Still loses hard to board wipes though.

Well the answer in my deck would be to run Rising Miasma which should hit nothing important under most situations. I'm going to take it online and see if I concur that it's necessary. (bbl with any results)

Misses abomination, and husk - unless things go terribly.

Actually, no. Thopters die a horrible, horrible death in the current meta. I have played around 20 or so games against Thopters since B4Z...and lost none of those games. Didn't even come close to losing. 1 sweeper and they are done most games, 2 and they quit. They aren't fast enough to deal with any deck running sweepers (and most are running 4 at this point, maybe 5 or 6), ramp just outpaces them...other than RDW, not sure what archetype Thopters are good against anymore...maybe Mono-G?

The only deck archetype in my experience that got hit with the Nerf bat worse is Elves.

Thopters die to sweepers, but slow decks without any (like this) still have a hard time. Languish is quite alright in this deck. Most games I start with disposable creatures into some kind of enchantment and maybe my first one or two sacs for cards. At this point Languish is quite good to reset the board and follow up into your expensive token generators with enchantment support. This has been much more successful for me than getting into a race for the bigger board immediately.

Hmmm... This was never intended to be a control deck. Not at all. I'm interested to see where this goes.

Btw, I just had a terrible showing against total garbage. I won via mill, but my current version of this deck isn't playing the way I intended. I'm going to mess with it.

I just don't know what else to do against wide boards. We already established that the deck has a weakness to mass flyers. My experience against grounded weenies isn't much better though. Maybe I prioritize the wrong cards? What's your strategy against that? At some point I always need to start chump blocking and I've never been able to recover from that. I basically stall the game to play more chump blockers I'm gonna sac next turn. Setting up a lethal turn out of nowhere is impossible once you lost a few creatures. Not to mention I have yet to see all combo pieces in a single game (about 10 games so far). Sometimes I could've tutored the Abomination with a Sphinx already on the board, but that wouldn't have changed anything. I couldn't afford to spend the mana or to sac creatures. More draw doesn't change the fact that no card in my deck lets me catch up on board.

I'm not giving up on the deck, it did pretty well with the Languishes to buy time for the combo setup. However, it's nowhere near the power level of the bant deck, yet. That thing is just ridiculously strong - might be the most powerful deck I've played so far.

hmmm... Not sure. Somewhere in all of this talk, the deck (and people playing the deck) started focusing too much on mill. *Let me lose some games and figure it out. If there are play notes, I'll make sure to explain what I'm doing. When I was watching CGB play the original version of the deck, he was consistently not playing the deck the way I would have. I don't know if that = a different result or not, because he did okay.

I consider this deck, with all of the eyeless watchers (in the original version), and the other token producing creatures, to be completely able to stall a ground game for a long time. Certainly long enough to set up the combo. But now I'm worrying that unless the cards line up beautifully the deck is playing the long game - without a strong long game strategy. So... *

The deck is indeed able to stall for a long time. If they play few big dudes without trample, you can block forever and a day. If they play lots of 2/2 or 3/3 guys it gets harder. You can't race them and you can't really chump them or you'll end up with an empty board very soon. It still buys time, but it also weakens the combo. Unfortunately you need the full mill combo to steal the game, because simply drawing cards doesn't improve your board state. And you need to mill them in one or two turns, because saccing your stuff and giving them an attack is game over.

I'm gonna watch CGB's games to find some inspiration, even if he plays it differently.

If it's referring to the original version of DJ's deck, then that's why I had suggested Kiora, Master of the Depths (as I mentioned above, I cut 1 Brood Butcher). Specifically for Kiora's 2nd ability. Gegliosch is touching on the same issues I was having. You need to get to the combo pieces since you can't typically race aggro and need the win cons to finish control or ramp. Kiora just adds Bitter Revelation type draw (unlike say Nissa) and acts as a removal target for the opponent to focus on. I haven't got there yet, but the ultimate would be another win con too.

Although there are times that the sac targets can swarm a slow board, the real wins are mill and a fat Husk (or an uncontested Abomination). The deck doesn't really have much in the way of removal or interactions (especially against wide boards) so trying to stall/ control a game is often a losing battle. That makes getting to those pieces (quickly) crucial. The only thing this deck can't really do is fetch the Tutelage but getting to an abomination quickly can help sort that out.



elk

So here's what I'm thinking... There are two versions and you can't do both: a strict mill deck with alt win cons, and a strict beat down deck with alt win con. I don't think both is possible at the same time. One version runs full husk, and 2 whirler rogues, the other probably doesn't run them at all, but had big stompers to make up for the lack. I think I need to think more about this, because right now I've been trying to ride the line between the two, and I don't think it will work.

The reason for the (e.g. My) confusion is that both deck share about 20 cards.

I was thinking...have you considered Rot Shambler? Not very used, even less out of Golgariland...but can be really good with the Husk, am I right? Like explosive...

And not bad at all with the rest of the deck...

Edit: I tried the idea...





I think there can be something there for real...also, being the ability of the Shambler instant speed, the shenanigans with ANY scion... let's not talk about husks or peas or haulers or reaps...are endless

The list I made to test them, I think it feels more powerful than any other version of the AboMill I have tried till the moment

Rotting abominations (and goes with the classic Husk looks, lol)

3 x Sphinx's Tutelage

3 x Carrier Thrall
2 x Corpse hauler
2 x Altar's reap
1 x Liliana, Heretical Healer
3 x Fleshbag Marauder
4 x Nantuko Husk
2 x Smothering Abomination
1 x Ob Nixilis Reignited

4 x Blisterpod
3 x Rot Shambler
2 x Evolutionary Leap
1 x Nissa
3 x Eyeless Watcher
2 x From Beyond

1 x Kyora

land till 23, with at least 1 Mire

Makes sense. And I'm afraid the beatdown version is much more consistent.

Rot Shambler is really good. I have it in my Golgari version; it's definately a playmaker.

I can't believe I overlooked that little guy

It's like the spawn of that wild night in which Bloodflow Connoisseur got all drunk with the Unruly Mob...

I like it myself in any sac deck.

I came to this conclusion very quickly, too. I decided (boring though it is, but I'm a Spike at heart) to go straight beat down. It feels more resilient and relies less on Abomination. I ended up with this:

4 x Blisterpod
4 x Bone Splinters
3 x Carrier Thrall
4 x Gatecreeper Vine
2 x Evolutionary Leap
2 x Eldrazi Skyspawner
1 x Liliana, Heretical Healer
3 x Fleshbag Marauder
4 x Nantuko Husk
2 x Whirler Rogue
2 x Smothering Abomination
2 x From Beyond
1 x Kiora, Master of the Depths
2 x Brood Butcher

(24 lands)


Got in 8 games (on Steam), went 8-0. It's so, so much fun. A fully combo version of the existing GB, GBR, and BU versions of the deck. Here are my thoughts and explanations:

I cut the Visionaries for Gatecreepers. I'm not wild about losing a 1/1 that can attack and replaces itself, but with the need for UU for Rogue (on which more in a second), I really wanted the mana fixing. So far, it feels right. Totally open to counterarguments here, obviously 8 games (plus a handful vs the AI just to get a feel for the deck) isn't enough to form a truly solid opinion yet.

Whirler Rogue is, as expected, **** golden. My notes in five of the eight games I played end with "found Rogue, Rogue + Husk = game." Obviously this is a surprise to no one, given that it's the basis for the UB Aristocrats deck in Standard right now, but man, in this format in particular, with so little instant-speed removal, it's amazing.

Brood Butcher was nearly dead and thoroughly underwhelming each time. I'm cutting both, putting in the third Rogue, and going up to 3 Skyspawners.

Skyspawner is a godsend vs. opposing fliers, and I've had two games so far where Skyspawner + Abomination basically meant "draw a card and force your opponent to find a way to deal with 6 power flying while you slow roll Husk." In both those games, I didn't actually end up needing Husk, the flying damage ended the game while my chump blockers stalled the ground. Basically, Skyspawner took the place of the Tutelages from the original build.

I may not need 4 Bone Splinters AND 3 Fleshbags. I think I'm dropping 1 Fleshbag and putting Ob Nixilis back in the deck.

Finally, as mentioned above somewhere, Kiora is absolutely brilliant in this deck. I've used her to find Abomination, Husk, and Rogue. This is probably the perfect deck for her. You always have a use for whatever creatures and land you draw, and the high creature count means that her -2 is almost always two cards in hand, often one that will win you the game on the spot if unanswered.

The quick and dirty version of my testing notes:

Game 1: GB Elves. Win (Evo + fliers).
Game 2: GR Ramp. Win (killed him with a big Husk before he could get to Ulamog, probably could have dealt with Ulamog anyway).
Game 3: RWG Aggro with EvoLeap. Win. Kind of a fun deck, but I had an earlier EvoLeap than he did, and he couldn't keep up.
Game 4: UW junk. 68 cards or something. Win. Some Kiora fun, Husk/Rogue.
Game 5: Sultai Elemental Bond/Evo Leap + utility creatures. Surprisingly competitive game, but Evo got me Liliana, then I Husk/Rogue sealed the deal. Win.
Game 6: Conflux control of some kind, saw four different colors of land (BWRG) and some Gatecreepers but Rogue told Husk to ignore the blockers, and he did. I was a little afraid of Reprisal, but it didn't come up. Win.
Game 7: UR Thopters. My fliers hold off his and eat his Twin Bolts and Perilous Myrs. I played control, just kept trading off my guys for his and slow played Husk until I drew Rogue, then killed him. Win.
Game 8: GB Aristocrats. Semi mirror, and we both had an early EvoLeap. I saved my Bone Splinters for his Abominations, he seemed to do the same, we both drew plenty of cards in response each time, and it came down to "your Husk is blockable, my blue friend here tell me mine isn't." Win.

I really WANT to put Tutelage back in the deck, but if I'm drawing all those cards with Abomination, I can win any way I want to, especially with Whirler Rogue. It feels win more in this version. But I'd love to be wrong.

EDIT: Also, I love the idea of Rot Shambler just because it reminds me so much of Gro. It's like Quirion Dryad's psychotic, bloodthirsty cousin! But I'm not sure whether it's really going to impact the game until I'm already winning anyway.