Re: Recursion - I was thinking of dropping the remaining Guildgate for Mortuary Mire. With all the draw here you can possibly get the critter back the same turn. It isn't much, but it could help.
I've been thinking about this deck and how to beat it. Reprisal and Tragic Arrogance is all I can come up with, and you still have to counter the Tutelages and Abominations.
You're dead on. But the problem is... No point to tragic arrogance the deck unless either abomination or husk is in play. And of course, by then it might be too late. Horribly awry is the bane of this deck.
Here's an alternate take I came up with yesterday. I'm still fleshing it out, but it shows promise too. It's got some more top end, and so far I like it.
So I'm just toying around with this, and I think there is a good chance that the original is better, but this is a lot of fun to pilot (I mean who doesn't like a bit of Timmy in their deck), and has some new synergies to explore. I noticed (post above) that some of these concepts are being used in other versions of the deck, so I figured I'd go ahead and post v2 (not necessarily better in this case).
The reason for the changes is pretty simple. This deck can absolutely run Ulamog with no trouble, so why wouldn't it. And while Husk is a total bad MF it benefits from (read needs) further support whereas Deathless Behemoth is just fun to play, and doesn't need much that the deck doesn't already provide.
I'm not sure whether the new enchants get 1 copy or 2, and I'm still messing around with a lot of the ratios, but I think this is probably where this version of the deck will finally settle.
Edit: After testing deathless behemoth are probably not a thing. And if they don't work here, they won't work anywhere. For some reason I thought it's ability put it directly into play. I also though it happened at instant speed. They aren't worth running in this (or probably any deck). 6/6 vigilance is pretty great, but still, there are usually much better things to do these days with 6 mana. Gonna cut them for something else.
Last edited by DJ0045 on Fri Dec 25, 2015 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Here's an alternate take I came up with yesterday. I'm still fleshing it out, but it shows promise too. It's got some more top end, and so far I like it.
Sultai Mill Sac - Alt Build
I noticed (post above) that some of these concepts are being used in other versions of the deck, so I figured I'd go ahead and post v2 (not necessarily better in this case).
I'm not sure whether the new enchants get 1 copy or 2, and I'm still messing around with a lot of the ratios, but I think this is probably where this version of the deck will finally settle.
I can't use Shadows, after all...half the time freezes me
Anyways, you got me thinking...the Husk/Abo engine gives you mad drawing (enough to find rares...) a huge but easily blocked creature and reasonable mana...but makes you clear your board of creatures in exchange
Imagine if there was a card that turns all that goodness into direct damage, as it hits the board...and that clears the path for your huge Husk...and that wipes opponent's board too! Too good, isn't it?
More agressive/faster than yours, imho... less vulnerable to fliers and non-bo, still hates Reprisal, lacks awesome mill win-con...really funny to ignite a 10/10+ Husk, instawin 95% of times...
I like it. Still a combo deck. Works for me. I think the U builds will prove to be more consistent, as they have easier mana requirements, but they can't guarantee a single turn kill, and frankly ignition almost can - baring instant speed removal. Just depends on the meta. Do we have a Felidar Cub meta, or an instant speed removal meta? That of course will change over time. But for now, somewhere between your build and CGB's build (plus ignition), there exists another real killer of a deck. Btw, this is a possible t4-5 kill. That's a pretty sick goldfish right there. Reminds me a lot of the ideas I had last season in Jund. Speaking of which, maybe a single Flameshadow Conjuring is a thing to consider in here.
Speaking of which, maybe a single Flameshadow Conjuring is a thing to consider in here.
Tried that idea and gave up, for the moment...it's already so crowded at the 4cc, I dunno... makes the deck slower... and the casting cost to make full use...that worked better with Evolpea, de 1 mana difference between Rites and Pea is more significant than it seems, lacking husks...and I love that card...I'm running out of suspension points, must finish the sentence...
Wincons are pretty straight forward. This list is every evolving, just trying to find the right mix. As I said, primarily, the goal is to bring out Walkers to do fun shenanigans on the board.
Please, if you have ideas, I will test them. And before anyone says it, I'm playing Ulamog just to play him. If there is a better fit into that spot, I will run it. Same with the rest of the deck.
Early creatures provide card draw and fonder for Evolpea. Walkers let you recycle them and do fun things. Ultimates are obviously wincons.
Give me feed back and thoughts please.
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Here's an alternate take I came up with yesterday. I'm still fleshing it out, but it shows promise too. It's got some more top end, and so far I like it.
Sultai Mill Sac - Alt Build
I noticed (post above) that some of these concepts are being used in other versions of the deck, so I figured I'd go ahead and post v2 (not necessarily better in this case).
I'm not sure whether the new enchants get 1 copy or 2, and I'm still messing around with a lot of the ratios, but I think this is probably where this version of the deck will finally settle.
I can't use Shadows, after all...half the time freezes me
Anyways, you got me thinking...the Husk/Abo engine gives you mad drawing (enough to find rares...) a huge but easily blocked creature and reasonable mana...but makes you clear your board of creatures in exchange
Imagine if there was a card that turns all that goodness into direct damage, as it hits the board...and that clears the path for your huge Husk...and that wipes opponent's board too! Too good, isn't it?
More agressive/faster than yours, imho... less vulnerable to fliers and non-bo, still hates Reprisal, lacks awesome mill win-con...really funny to ignite a 10/10+ Husk, instawin 95% of times...
Yeah, I know...I'll post it in Jund
What do you think?
You're missing like and ... lol nice to see the editor is back; I'll upload my deck today finally
One thing that seems broken is when I pay 1 swamp and sac a scion to cast Altar's Reap while Smothering Abomination is in play, his draw triggers twice even though I have sacrificed only one creature. Perhaps it's some small detail with sacrifice rules that I am missing. Anyhow works great though!
Kinda Sultai Red (like jeskai black); deals really well with mill and ramp, but I've added in the red specifically to deal with some of the aggro decks that randomly pop up.
The other list is an update of one I did before Zendikar dropped and I moved. Here is an updated version, though I'm still playing with the final build:
Primary win con - Ridiculous card advantage using tokens, Nantuko Husk, and Smothering Abomination. You will draw the majority of your deck, and it's really hard - even impossible - for your opponent to keep up. From Beyond helps tutor for Abomination, as does Evolutionary Leap, and the fact that most of your other creatures give you multiple sac options for activation of either +2/+2 from Husk, or a new creature from Leap. This deck is perfectly capable of killing t6 against a number of opponents - so being the beatdown is often not a problem at all. (I guess it's possible to totally fail your starting hand, but it's yet to happen to me sufficiently badly to be unable to recover by t2 or 3).
Secondary Win cons - this deck hardly ever wins without drawing 20+ cards. Tutelage loves that. I've managed - on multiple occasions - to mill 40+ cards in a single turn, thanks to abomination and husk. It's ridiculous how fast this deck can mill if even a single sphinx's tutelage is in play. (2 or more is surely GG, and not in some slow piddling fashion - fast, like really fast).
p.s.: suggestions are always appreciated.
So I've spun the deck a handful of times and decided to swap out one Brood Butcher for Kiora, Master of the Depths. Specifically for the 2nd ability so I could dig for the Husk and/or Abomination. Although you imply in your deck tech that there are other ways to win, this is really the goal (and hinge pin) of the deck. I found that if I didn't get to these cards, my games went down hill into some grindy matches. Finding an Evoleap, Ob Nixilis Reignited, or activating tutelage/beyond were the only consistent outs to finding these puzzle pieces. Adding Kiora just gave another consistent way to dig (I also didn't get there but the ultimate seems useful as another win condition - even if at worst it gives more sac targets). I dropped the one butcher since I generally didn't want the second copy and assuming I already had abomination, From Beyond could tutor the card in a pinch. With Beyond acting as additional copies for Butcher and Abomination (I never tutored Eyeless Watcher especially with 4 already in the deck) it felt like a safe cut.
As I suggested before, Mortuary Mire tested to be a good inclusion. I ran 2 copies and found them useful for saving the combo cards, high value cards or ensuring I had fuel. I would suggest you give them some play time.
I also squeaked in one more Island due to land destruction (the blue sources stand out like crazy) and adding Kiora. I know you seem down on the number of tap lands but I wonder if Lumbering Falls should have a place here. At worst it's another duel land but does have the potential to be a beater/blocker and even a sac target. Once the deck gets drawing, it seems like this should be easy to use.
This is the second deck of yours that caught my attention today. Good job DJ. Don't have time to play now, but this is the next thing I'm going to try.
This is the second deck of yours that caught my attention today. Good job DJ. Don't have time to play now, but this is the next thing I'm going to try.
Cool man. Definitely read through some of the ideas from other builders. I certainly wouldn't insist that I have the best build at this point. The core deck is obvious: abomination, thrall, Blisterpod, tutelage (deck can easily mill 40 in a single turn with just one in play, done it many times, watched CGB do it against Hakeem), Lilliana (guaranteed win con - almost), and probably husk. The rest is less obvious: splinters, fleshbags, watchers, Ob Nixilis (serious win con), whirler rogue (serious win con), Drowner of Hope (likely win con), (freaking corpse hauler?), etc... For example: does this deck run ulamog? It certainly can.
Forgetting something, but it's early and I just woke up. It's a nasty pile when it's not perfectly built, so the promise is there to make something devastingly good.
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