OK, as promised (although a day late), here's an update to the 5CC decklist and 10-game series!
First, the decklist and changes: Original decklist:
Spoiler
1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy 3 x Jaddi Offshoot 1 x Clutch of Currents 1 x Rolling Thunder 1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer 4 x Natural Connection 2 x Radiant Flames 2 x From Beyond 4 x Brilliant Spectrum 2 x Languish 1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar 1 x Kiora, Master of the Depths 2 x Planar Outburst 1 x Ob Nixilis Reignited 1 x Greenwarden of Murasa 1 x Sire of Stagnation 1 x Oblivion Sower 2 x Nissa's Renewal 2 x Emeria Shepherd 1 x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 x Plains 3 x Island 2 x Swamp 1 x Mountain 3 x Forest 2 x Smoldering Marsh 2 x Sunken Hollow 2 x Cinder Glade 2 x Canopy Vista 2 x Prairie Stream 4 x Evolving Wilds
Current decklist:
Spoiler
3 x Jaddi Offshoot 3 x Pilgrim's Eye 1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer 4 x Natural Connection 2 x Radiant Flames 2 x From Beyond 4 x Brilliant Spectrum 2 x Languish 1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar 1 x Kiora, Master of the Depths 1 x Angelic Edict 2 x Planar Outburst 1 x Ob Nixilis Reignited 1 x Greenwarden of Murasa 1 x Sire of Stagnation 1 x Oblivion Sower 2 x Nissa's Renewal 2 x Emeria Shepherd 1 x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 x Plains 2 x Island 2 x Swamp 1 x Mountain 3 x Forest 2 x Smoldering Marsh 2 x Sunken Hollow 2 x Cinder Glade 2 x Canopy Vista 2 x Prairie Stream 4 x Evolving Wilds
Changes made:
Spoiler
-1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy -1 x Clutch of Currents -1 x Rolling Thunder -1 x Island
+3 x Pilgrim's Eye +1 x Angelic Edict
I looked through my notes and found Jace to be a little lackluster, overall. Rarely did I need to flashback a spell when he made it to Planeswalker status. The decks it would have been useful, they killed him with a quickness. Clutch of Currents is tech against man-lands/Awakened lands, but it rarely came into play. Rolling Thunder sat in my hand a few games, especially against Moss players, as they would kill my Mountain and then I am waiting to draw into a red source...I rarely used it as well, even with it in my hand. I looked at my land and went down to 25 by cutting one of the Islands, which was very redundant, color-wise.
In their place, the Pilgrim's Eyes gave me some color-grabbing for any 3-mana, a 1/1 flyer to harass Planeswalkers, and to help shore up against Aggro. Been a fantastic move so far. Angelic Edict is my special flower against Ulamog or other things I don't want to see again.
So, onto the games:
Gm 1, Rank 36, Control? It had counters. I went 1st. Turn 7 Ulamog forced a concession. Win. Gm2, Rank 40, IzzetThopters. I went 2nd. All was going well for him until Radiant Flames and Languish showed up. Win. Gm3, Rank 40, Smothering Husk. I went 2nd. I like the deck, but even if you keep the Husk alive from a sweeper (which happened twice this game), you are still only left with a 2/2. Win. Gm4, Rank 36, Control? (same guy from game 1). I went 2nd. Much longer game this time. He got Ulamog out, exiling 2 of my Planeswalkers. I then Ulamog'd his Ulamog. He conceded soon after. Win. Gm5, Rank 37, BUG. I went 1st. Moss'd 3 times, but it did not start until after turn 6. Other than that, I played 2 sweepers and finished with Oblivion Sower and Gideon beatdown. Win. Gm6, Rank 39, Golgari Control. I went 1st. I've seen a couple of these floating around these last few days. They look rather impressive. Next time I face one, I'll write it down and share, it does a good job against this deck. I might, MIGHT, be 50% against them. This game, he Oblivion Sower'd me Twice and played Ulamog on me. I then played Angelic Edict and got him with an assortment of creatures. Win. Gm7, Rank 40, IzzetThopters. I went 1st. This deck just folds to a sweeper, Vile Aggregate or no. Really not scary at all anymore. Win. Gm8, Rank 40, 5cc. I went 2nd. This looked very similar to this deck, but he had Woodland Wanderer which he cast turn 4...he didn't live very long. We went back and forth for most of the game, him gaining an obscene amount of life, I just drew a lot. He waited for me to play my Ulamog first, then he Ulamog'd mine. I then played Angelic Edict. And then drew 3 lands and a Natural Connection while a 4/4 land beat me down. Loss. Very good game, we were both down to the lower teens for cards in our libraries. Gm9, Rank 40, Gruul Monsters. I went 1st. This guy had the perfect anti-aggro start: 3 Jaddi Offshoot and 2 Gatecreeper Vine by turn 5 IIRC. So didn't care. I played my own Jaddi, ramped up, played a sweeper, found Oblivion Sower, got Ulamog, profit. Win. Gm10, Rank 40, Gruul Monsters. I went 2nd. Same guy I played last game, only 20 minutes later. He gets stuck at 4 land and concedes when I get up to 9 on turn 5. I played around and got Ulamog out to mill him to see his deck. He had 23 land in the deck...needed more lands, and it showed. I guess he was counting on Blisterpod getting him mana... Win.
So, 9-1...Mega, you should be happier with that outting.
Thoughts at this point: both Sire of Stagnation and Kiora, Master of the Depths have been serious underachievers. Sire comes out and they either deal with him immediately or I don't draw him. He's been pretty uninspiring so far. I might replace him with another Angelic Edict, which has always been a great card to draw. Kiora has been pretty good for searching/taking hits/ramping, but out of the remaining Planeswalkers, she's the least exciting for me to find. I'll probably keep her as she is very versatile.
Anyways, I appreciate any comments, questions, and suggestions for the deck. It is pretty fun to play and can do some ridiculous things, but you have to be on your A game when playing; it's pretty easy to screw up if you are not paying attention.
With the BFZ update this has overtaken Hakeem's Golgari control as my go to deck, but with a few changes. Pilgrim's Eye has been very underwhelming for me (as the game will invariably flood me with land anyway) so I replaced them with Telling Time. In a deck like this one thing I never want to be short on is draw power and waiting for Brilliant Spectrum is just painful sometimes, especially as there is nothing in the two mana slot anyway. After a year of relying on Think Twice in all my control decks I need something, anything, to get the card advantage rolling ASAP. With the mana base this isn't a perfect solution, as having blue mana open turn two isn't exactly happening every game but I'm happy with it.
I cut Sire of Stagnation for Gaea's Revenge: very few creatures affect the board state as much as this guy and it has proven its worth time and again. I've gone from 'oh, I drew Sire, whatever' to 'HELL YEAH, GAEA BABY!'. That said, I may test Plated Crusher in this slot. Gaea's main draw back is just getting chump blocked, so Crusher could be just the answer.
I really, really want to cut Jaddi Offshoot out of the deck too. It's not that the card is bad, indeed the life-gain has been helpful and they make the deck that much more competitive against the aggro match up, but they just depress me, sitting there all game, so passive. I'd rather have something more active (where is my god damn decent spot removal?!!!). They'll probably stay, but I may test cutting one for a second Angelic Edict.
OK, as promised (although a day late), here's an update to the 5CC decklist and 10-game series!
First, the decklist and changes: Original decklist:
Spoiler
1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy 3 x Jaddi Offshoot 1 x Clutch of Currents 1 x Rolling Thunder 1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer 4 x Natural Connection 2 x Radiant Flames 2 x From Beyond 4 x Brilliant Spectrum 2 x Languish 1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar 1 x Kiora, Master of the Depths 2 x Planar Outburst 1 x Ob Nixilis Reignited 1 x Greenwarden of Murasa 1 x Sire of Stagnation 1 x Oblivion Sower 2 x Nissa's Renewal 2 x Emeria Shepherd 1 x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 x Plains 3 x Island 2 x Swamp 1 x Mountain 3 x Forest 2 x Smoldering Marsh 2 x Sunken Hollow 2 x Cinder Glade 2 x Canopy Vista 2 x Prairie Stream 4 x Evolving Wilds
Current decklist:
Spoiler
3 x Jaddi Offshoot 3 x Pilgrim's Eye 1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer 4 x Natural Connection 2 x Radiant Flames 2 x From Beyond 4 x Brilliant Spectrum 2 x Languish 1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar 1 x Kiora, Master of the Depths 1 x Angelic Edict 2 x Planar Outburst 1 x Ob Nixilis Reignited 1 x Greenwarden of Murasa 1 x Sire of Stagnation 1 x Oblivion Sower 2 x Nissa's Renewal 2 x Emeria Shepherd 1 x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 x Plains 2 x Island 2 x Swamp 1 x Mountain 3 x Forest 2 x Smoldering Marsh 2 x Sunken Hollow 2 x Cinder Glade 2 x Canopy Vista 2 x Prairie Stream 4 x Evolving Wilds
Changes made:
Spoiler
-1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy -1 x Clutch of Currents -1 x Rolling Thunder -1 x Island
+3 x Pilgrim's Eye +1 x Angelic Edict
I looked through my notes and found Jace to be a little lackluster, overall. Rarely did I need to flashback a spell when he made it to Planeswalker status. The decks it would have been useful, they killed him with a quickness. Clutch of Currents is tech against man-lands/Awakened lands, but it rarely came into play. Rolling Thunder sat in my hand a few games, especially against Moss players, as they would kill my Mountain and then I am waiting to draw into a red source...I rarely used it as well, even with it in my hand. I looked at my land and went down to 25 by cutting one of the Islands, which was very redundant, color-wise.
In their place, the Pilgrim's Eyes gave me some color-grabbing for any 3-mana, a 1/1 flyer to harass Planeswalkers, and to help shore up against Aggro. Been a fantastic move so far. Angelic Edict is my special flower against Ulamog or other things I don't want to see again.
So, onto the games:
Gm 1, Rank 36, Control? It had counters. I went 1st. Turn 7 Ulamog forced a concession. Win. Gm2, Rank 40, IzzetThopters. I went 2nd. All was going well for him until Radiant Flames and Languish showed up. Win. Gm3, Rank 40, Smothering Husk. I went 2nd. I like the deck, but even if you keep the Husk alive from a sweeper (which happened twice this game), you are still only left with a 2/2. Win. Gm4, Rank 36, Control? (same guy from game 1). I went 2nd. Much longer game this time. He got Ulamog out, exiling 2 of my Planeswalkers. I then Ulamog'd his Ulamog. He conceded soon after. Win. Gm5, Rank 37, BUG. I went 1st. Moss'd 3 times, but it did not start until after turn 6. Other than that, I played 2 sweepers and finished with Oblivion Sower and Gideon beatdown. Win. Gm6, Rank 39, Golgari Control. I went 1st. I've seen a couple of these floating around these last few days. They look rather impressive. Next time I face one, I'll write it down and share, it does a good job against this deck. I might, MIGHT, be 50% against them. This game, he Oblivion Sower'd me Twice and played Ulamog on me. I then played Angelic Edict and got him with an assortment of creatures. Win. Gm7, Rank 40, IzzetThopters. I went 1st. This deck just folds to a sweeper, Vile Aggregate or no. Really not scary at all anymore. Win. Gm8, Rank 40, 5cc. I went 2nd. This looked very similar to this deck, but he had Woodland Wanderer which he cast turn 4...he didn't live very long. We went back and forth for most of the game, him gaining an obscene amount of life, I just drew a lot. He waited for me to play my Ulamog first, then he Ulamog'd mine. I then played Angelic Edict. And then drew 3 lands and a Natural Connection while a 4/4 land beat me down. Loss. Very good game, we were both down to the lower teens for cards in our libraries. Gm9, Rank 40, Gruul Monsters. I went 1st. This guy had the perfect anti-aggro start: 3 Jaddi Offshoot and 2 Gatecreeper Vine by turn 5 IIRC. So didn't care. I played my own Jaddi, ramped up, played a sweeper, found Oblivion Sower, got Ulamog, profit. Win. Gm10, Rank 40, Gruul Monsters. I went 2nd. Same guy I played last game, only 20 minutes later. He gets stuck at 4 land and concedes when I get up to 9 on turn 5. I played around and got Ulamog out to mill him to see his deck. He had 23 land in the deck...needed more lands, and it showed. I guess he was counting on Blisterpod getting him mana... Win.
So, 9-1...Mega, you should be happier with that outting.
Thoughts at this point: both Sire of Stagnation and Kiora, Master of the Depths have been serious underachievers. Sire comes out and they either deal with him immediately or I don't draw him. He's been pretty uninspiring so far. I might replace him with another Angelic Edict, which has always been a great card to draw. Kiora has been pretty good for searching/taking hits/ramping, but out of the remaining Planeswalkers, she's the least exciting for me to find. I'll probably keep her as she is very versatile.
Anyways, I appreciate any comments, questions, and suggestions for the deck. It is pretty fun to play and can do some ridiculous things, but you have to be on your A game when playing; it's pretty easy to screw up if you are not paying attention.
With the BFZ update this has overtaken Hakeem's Golgari control as my go to deck, but with a few changes. Pilgrim's Eye has been very underwhelming for me (as the game will invariably flood me with land anyway) so I replaced them with Telling Time. In a deck like this one thing I never want to be short on is draw power and waiting for Brilliant Spectrum is just painful sometimes, especially as there is nothing in the two mana slot anyway. After a year of relying on Think Twice in all my control decks I need something, anything, to get the card advantage rolling ASAP. With the mana base this isn't a perfect solution, as having blue mana open turn two isn't exactly happening every game but I'm happy with it.
I cut Sire of Stagnation for Gaea's Revenge: very few creatures affect the board state as much as this guy and it has proven its worth time and again. I've gone from 'oh, I drew Sire, whatever' to 'HELL YEAH, GAEA BABY!'. That said, I may test Plated Crusher in this slot. Gaea's main draw back is just getting chump blocked, so Crusher could be just the answer.
I really, really want to cut Jaddi Offshoot out of the deck too. It's not that the card is bad, indeed the life-gain has been helpful and they make the deck that much more competitive against the aggro match up, but they just depress me, sitting there all game, so passive. I'd rather have something more active (where is my god damn decent spot removal?!!!). They'll probably stay, but I may test cutting one for a second Angelic Edict.
Telling time is nothe a bad idea. I like Pilgrim's Eye since it can block, flies, and can be recurred via the Shepherd, buttelling time works good as well, and is a 1 for 1 replacement. Might be better in that slot.
As far as Sire, I cut him for a second Angelic Edict.
Jaddi Offshoot is a card that is necessary to win against a fast aggro start. Without it, I have less than 40% win against aggro. It is a necessary evil I wouldn't part with at this time.
3 out of 60 cards in your deck is required to not have a 40% win rate? I think you might find you still have a low win-rate in that case
You misread babs.
Let me elaborate...against RDW, it increases the win rate (according to my notes) to about 60%. Without Jaddi Offshoot, it drops to about 40%. I haven't accounted for games against RDW where I did or did not draw Jaddi Offshoot, only the overall stats. Just going off of memory, my last 3 games against RDW I drew Jaddi Offshoot in 2 of the games, 2-1 for those games and 1-1 when I drew the offshoot.
Joined: Jul 11, 2015 Posts: 1082 Location: Somewhere in Time
I think I'm going to test Fiery Impulse in Offshoot's place, skew the mana a little more towards red and drop Omnath, Locus of Rage in there. I don't expect this to improve the deck in anyway but it allows me to retain an answer to early aggro creatures and drop my favourite creature in the set into the deck. Omnath has been the MVP of my Gruul ramp deck by some margin and it would be interesting to see if he can work here.
Plus it seems a shame to run red for literally two cards.
I think I'm going to test Fiery Impulse in Offshoot's place, skew the mana a little more towards red and drop Omnath, Locus of Rage in there. I don't expect this to improve the deck in anyway but it allows me to retain an answer to early aggro creatures and drop my favourite creature in the set into the deck. Omnath has been the MVP of my Gruul ramp deck by some margin and it would be interesting to see if he can work here.
Plus it seems a shame to run red for literally two cards.
Omnath work good in here; usually by the time you can cast him, the mana has sorted itself out.
You also might want to think about Twin Bolt instead of Fiery Impulse. That's a personally and meta call, TBH.
I think I'm going to test Fiery Impulse in Offshoot's place, skew the mana a little more towards red and drop Omnath, Locus of Rage in there. I don't expect this to improve the deck in anyway but it allows me to retain an answer to early aggro creatures and drop my favourite creature in the set into the deck. Omnath has been the MVP of my Gruul ramp deck by some margin and it would be interesting to see if he can work here.
Plus it seems a shame to run red for literally two cards.
Omnath work good in here; usually by the time you can cast him, the mana has sorted itself out.
You also might want to think about Twin Bolt instead of Fiery Impulse. That's a personally and meta call, TBH.
I've played a couple of games with Impulse and a few with Bolt and I think Bolt was a good call. The changes fit my play style a little more and Bolt into Flames or Bolt > Ramp > Languish is usually enough to get over the early hump against RDW, at least from my limited testing.
The one thing I now wish for in this deck is a tutor. Flooding with mana (seriously what is up with the Stainless algorithm for drawing/shuffling?) or getting a Natural Connection turn 8 is really annoying: I want to know at some point I'll have the option to grab a specific card - I miss Runescarred Demon so much.
I think I'm going to test Fiery Impulse in Offshoot's place, skew the mana a little more towards red and drop Omnath, Locus of Rage in there. I don't expect this to improve the deck in anyway but it allows me to retain an answer to early aggro creatures and drop my favourite creature in the set into the deck. Omnath has been the MVP of my Gruul ramp deck by some margin and it would be interesting to see if he can work here.
Plus it seems a shame to run red for literally two cards.
Omnath work good in here; usually by the time you can cast him, the mana has sorted itself out.
You also might want to think about Twin Bolt instead of Fiery Impulse. That's a personally and meta call, TBH.
I've played a couple of games with Impulse and a few with Bolt and I think Bolt was a good call. The changes fit my play style a little more and Bolt into Flames or Bolt > Ramp > Languish is usually enough to get over the early hump against RDW, at least from my limited testing.
The one thing I now wish for in this deck is a tutor. Flooding with mana (seriously what is up with the Stainless algorithm for drawing/shuffling?) or getting a Natural Connection turn 8 is really annoying: I want to know at some point I'll have the option to grab a specific card - I miss Runescarred Demon so much.
Yeah, I hear you on getting flooded out sometimes. Usually my opponents are put on the back foot by a sweeper, if not the 2nd gives me some room to get going through most floods. It's one of the reasons why sometimes I ramp without thinking...just to thin out lands. Everyone has things to improve on.
What I like about Twin Bolt over Fiery Impulse is, while it does cost 1 more mana, it can hit 2 targets and it can go towards Planeswalkers or the opponent, which Fiery Impulse cannot. Since we are concerned about early defense, Spell Mastery isn't always something you can count on for that extra damage which is only relevant occasionally.
I need to get back and play this deck again...since the servers were down last night I was stuck on Nexus Wars.
Emragherd it's creatures! Woodland Wanderer, Sire of Stagnation.. and Rolling Thunder! You got rid of Skyrider Elf? Why?
Sire was a mistake. He's not good in this deck, so I took him out. Rolling Thunder was put in to replace Emeria Angel, who, while a very good card, wasn'the doing much of anything. I have never used the Skyrider in this deck.
I initially made this as a joke deck of all the Mythics in the game + ramp + boardwipes. The deck above is much less of a joke The most questionable card right now is Akoum Firebird. When I lose with it its usually because I needed a blocker for more than 1 turn. However, I have won more games than lost with it due to the graveyard re-occurence, haste + evasion, and the synergy with the Jace loot. I definitely see it being cut when Oath of the Gatewatch comes out. (Still working on getting the deck to post right. The additional lands are x4 Evolving Wilds, x2 Plains, x2 Island, x2 Swamp, x2 Mountain, x5 Forest)
Here's a broadcast today where I had a 19 game win streak before I stopped to watch the NFL playoff game. I have cut the Akoum Firebird for a Tragic Arrogance.
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Control? It had counters. I went 1st. Turn 7 Ulamog forced a concession. Win.
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