I sometimes put off flipping a planeswalker cuz I can’t protect them but they become such a huge distraction that I think it should almost always be a priority to flip them

It's cool, I don't get a vibe you are being negative. I agree, the deck wants to torture midrange and now is not the time. Thanks for trying it out and posting about it. I think your deck with a big combo husk finish has a better chance of becoming a real thing.

Has anyone tried an Ingest deck with graveyard control? When you exile something huge, you can choose to put it in their graveyard and resurrect it. Unfortunately the good Eldrazi effects are all on cast and not EtB, but it's so much cheaper that it might still be good enough.

Here ya go! viewtopic.php?f=52&t=10308&p=387017#p387017

That's an Ingest deck, but it doesn't use the Graveyard. What I'm looking for is a deck that makes use of the stuff it ingests with things like Necromantic Summons.

Mindsweeper?

Willbreaker...I'm a retard, what can I say?

Here is my Dimir Husk deck list that I am writing about (link below) and testing. I hate typing out Aristocrats all the time, too many syllables for me, so I call it Husk since that is the core engine. - Week 22 update

1 x Vampiric Rites
4 x Bone Splinters
4 x Perilous Myr
1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3 x Carrier Thrall
4 x Eldrazi Skyspawner
1 x Liliana, Heretical Healer
3 x Fleshbag Marauder
4 x Nantuko Husk
2 x Smothering Abomination
3 x Whirler Rogue
2 x Thopter Spy Network
2 x Priest of the Blood Rite
1 x Ob Nixilis Reignited
2 x Sunken Hollow
2 x Drowned Catacomb
3 x Foundry of the Consuls
1 x Mortuary Mire
4 x Dimir Guildgate
1 x Evolving Wilds
6 x Swamp
6 x Island

Right here goes.

GAME 1 (Golgari Control): Bit of a shaky start. 1 for 1 most of my early plays with Visionaries and Myrs, but once Smothering Abomination hit the board turn 4 this deck really got into gear. Spent the next 6 turns worrying about Languish but luckily it never hit, I can imagine it would suck for this deck if it did though. So much draw I had multiple ways I could have closed that game, pretty impressed.

GAME 2 (RDW): Oh boy...Twin Bolt is not my friend here. Didn't manage to draw any removal and got burnt out by turn 5, no 2nd black source for Abomination (which I'd have had to sac the turn after anyway). I'm not really sure if this deck can combat something that fast other than chumping it and hoping to set up it's own board in the meantime, and that's nigh on impossible vs red if your board consists of 1/1s to sac.

GAME 3 (Gruul Landfall): Now this is aggro I can cope with. Chump it forever, go over the top. The only issue was the G/R Landfall Trample Elemental (no idea on it's name atm) got me down to 6 using just that. I was never a fan of Despoiler, and so far it's either sat in my hand or just never had open mana to keep him useful. Maybe I haven't hit him AND the card draw at the same time yet, but that lends itself to being a bit "win-more" to me.

GAME 4 (RDW): Bit better this time, still a loss because KGHBGJBGJBGUJHB top deck Exquisite Firecraft when I had lethal next turn!!! Just managed to chump him enough otherwise to get within lethal range though.

GAME 5 (Selesnya Ramp): Here we go, the big-bad Ramp. Things went smoothly as expected, minimal lifegain from Retreat put him down to 7 by turn 6 and...Planar Outburst. But it's ok, I have Rogue! Wait, no. NO! Not Nissa's Renewal! That was the death-knell really. I couldn't sac-buff Husk out of a destroy effect and I couldn't bring his life low enough before Desolation Twin + Gaea's Reared it's ugly head, I wish I could have recovered because that start was so strong. I can see how this deck works well against it by going over the top, but there isn't a comeback if you get wiped + Renewal hits. Funnily enough he did play moss, but it hit turn 5 and didn't really impact what this deck does a great deal so at least it counteracts that particular annoyance.

So 2/3. I like this actually, the Aristocrat's playstyle was one of my faves in paper. Not sure if RDW is a natural counter or if I just had bad luck, but is it really "luck" based when you should be expected (and playing around) that 4 uncounterable damage to face being around the corner? Against slower aggro (heh) this works just fine I think. And it counters control well. Except for board wipes, which I'd really love more "produces X when dead" creatures for.

I played against a deck with a similar concept and it definitely felt weak to sweepers, but I liked it and decided to build something similar. I'm trying a lower curve to pressure the opponent and counterspells to protect the combo finish from removal/sweepers. Vampiric Rites also feels like sweet anti-sweeper tech. My version is playing well, but it needs more testing.

Felbatista, having lost quite badly to you with your Dimir Aristocrats, I've got to say it looked quite strong. What is the full list you're running?

That was a very good game, BTW. Hope we can play again sometime

Aristocrats
4 x Salvage Drone
1 x Vampiric Rites
3 x Bone Splinters
2 x Despoiler of Souls
3 x Carrier Thrall
4 x Eldrazi Skyspawner
3 x Fleshbag Marauder
2 x Bloodflow Connoisseur
4 x Nantuko Husk
2 x Scatter to the Winds
4 x Spell Shrivel
2 x Artificer's Epiphany
3 x Whirler Rogue

8 x Island
7 x Swamp
2 x Drowned Catacomb
2 x Sunken Hollow
2 x Rogue's Passage
2 x Mortuary Mire


Mixed feelings about the deck. I feel it should play 8 Husks or something... Connoisseur makes a poor impression (wish we had Blood Bairn or Bloodthrone Vampire). But playing Rogue and killing your opponent from 12 or something is really fun. And the deck operates well with just a few lands and plays counterspells, so it might be a good option if you're in the Moss meta. Someone help me improve it!

It's just my personal opinion but IMO a deck like this should be a bit more proactive, doesn't seem like the type of deck that wants to sit on too many counterspells or removal. I would rather have more creatures to serve as fodder and start chipping down the opponent to facilitate the final kill as early as possible.

I'm not a big fan of Bone Splinters due to its sorcery speed and the fact that you need to sac something (I prefer to keep as much fodder as possible for Nantuko Husk). Bloodflow Connoisseur makes a poor impersonation of Husk as it cannot deliver the same type of burst damage you are looking for so I would probably cut it as it doesn't even come close. I'm not a fan of Vampiric Rites either since you need to spend mana and for the same reason than Bone Splinters. In the same role I personally still prefer Shadows of the Past for pretty much free card selection.

That's the deck I'm aiming to build right now, but unfortunately I'm still missing many BFZ cards to test it (Island and Swamp numbers still to determine):

2 x Dispel
4 x Salvage Drone
1 x Shadows of the Past
4 x Perilous Myr
2 x Despoiler of Souls
3 x Carrier Thrall
4 x Eldrazi Skyspawner
2 x Fleshbag Marauder
1 x Liliana, Heretical Healer
4 x Nantuko Husk
2 x Spell Shrivel
2 x Smothering Abomination
3 x Whirler Rogue
2 x Cruel Revival

7 x Island
7 x Swamp
2 x Drowned Catacomb
2 x Sunken Hollow
1 x Rogue's Passage
1 x Mortuary Mire
4 x Evolving Wilds


I haven't heard much good on Dispel around here but I really think some number of it would do great in this deck. Since once you resolve Whirler Rogue with Husk and a decent board in play you're pretty much guaranteed to win, so it could be great to have this to protect your Husk when attacking or counter a counterspell directed at Rogue.

Thank you for posting the deck! Looking at the complete list, it seems explosive, but possibly rather high-variance. A very interesting take on the archetype. I look forward to a rematch.

I really like this deck. My Record is 8-1 so far.
I have made only two changes:

- 1 Cruel Revival
- 1 Salvage Drone
+ 1 Vampiric Rites
+ 1 Ob Nixilis Reignited

Some kind of ingest, plus discard deck. Built it because I like Mire's Malice and it combos well with Necromantic summons - which then goes on to combo with your own Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, and salvage drone.

Reanimate your fatties or mine, or just make you discard, it's all good. Still very early days, first thoughts are changing gilt leaf for priest of the blood rite

Overall the goal is, mires malice is an incredible card, underused, deserves to see play. Love to see any advice for a malice deck, even if this deck is scrapped completely.


4 Salvage Drone

1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 Mist Intruder
3 Horribly Awry
2 Scatter to the winds
4 Spell shrivel

3 Ulamog's Nullifier
4 Mire's Malice

2 Gilt-leaf winnower
3 Necromantic summons
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited

1 Sire of stagnation
1 Oblivion Sower

1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

10 island
8 swamp
2 Sunken hollow
2 Drowned catacomb
4 Mortuary mire

The idea of control and recursion is reasonable but since you mentioned focusing on discard/Summons, I think it's important to note that the majority of your deck is putting cards into exile, not the grave (Mire's Malice is your only real discard). Sower and Nullifier are good with exile but realistically this would limit what you can get access to from their grave. Grave recursion from your own bin is conditional on having an active Jace or the opponent removing your creature threats (and if your casting creature threats then you're already into 6 mana range so Summons is basically for 2nd play only). Jace, outside of filtering, won't get much value out of the grave once it's flipped. Jace could recur Summons/ Mire fine but the balance is basically interrupt which would normally be a dead play. Now if you can ultimate him that'd be great but I'm guessing things would have to go smooth to count on that as a win condition.

If you're looking at discard, then Liliana and her +1 ability say hi. I'd be looking to pair that with other bounce effects to force discards (Clutch of Currents, Disperse, Displacement Wave) and I'd be looking at removal options too (Fleshbag etc.). That way you can force your opponent to fill their grave so your recursion get better. Even if Ingest is where you want to be, then things like Anchor to the Aether could be a form of control (Roil Spout could work in Esper).


Maybe that's something to try and brew. Some sort of Esper control that uses a blend of bounce, discard and removal. Then recur your way to wins.



elk

Hi everyone !

I would like some help to improve and make more consistent my deck list. It's my first attempt at using a deck I created instead of a top tier list found on the internet.

The strategy of the deck is to put BIG creatures such as Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger in the graveyard with discard effects and draw lands and reanimation spells during the first 4 turns and then reanimate them on turn 5 with Necromantic Summons or Rise from the Grave.

Here is my current decklist :
CCM 1 :
3 Salvage Drone Blocker + draw/discard
CCM 2 :
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Discard and +1 protect us and -3 enable a second reanimation
4 Screeching Skaab Discard
CCM 3 :
4 Artificer's Epiphany Draw/Discard
CCM 4 :
3 Brilliant Spectrum Draw/Discard
4 Languish Protect against aggro
4 Bitter Revelation Draw/Discard
CCM 5 :
3 Necromantic Summons Reanimation ( spell mastery is activated very often )
3 Rise from the Grave Reanimation
CCM 6+ (AKA you are not supposed to cast them but sometimes the deck fails hard):
2 Kothophed, Soul Hoarder 6/6 + Evasion
1 Greenwarden of Murasa ETB gives me reanimation spell back and death effect will do the same thing when fixed. May be not enough aggressive
2 Alhammarret, High Arbiter 4/4 + evasion + self-protect ETB
2 Gaea's Revenge no comment, win faster than others
1 Plated Crusher I only opened one, just a better eldrazi devastator imo
1 Eldrazi Devastator Big trample
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger Cast effect doesnt work but it's still good i think
Lands : 23
3 Rogue's Passage For Fatties with no evasion
4 Evolving Wilds
7 UB lands (all the dual lands I have
3 Skyline Cascade I'm trrying it, never drew it in 5 games ...
4 Swamp
2 Island

Problems of the deck in my opinion :
-The deck is not very consistent. Sometimes you don't have reanimate spells and sometimes all the big cards are at the bottom of library so you can't put them in graveyard.
-Turn 5 without controling the board is too late against some very aggro decks but increasing the number of control card may make the deck even more inconsistent.
The 2 languish are not enough against boros decks for example

Other cards I have tried :
-My first version had green in it for Gather the Pack and Kiora, Master of the Depths's -2. I removed this color because I only had these 4 cards in it and to have less lands ( from 26 to 23 ).
-I have tried Emeria Shepherd + 2 plains fetchable with Evolving Wilds. It was fun to reanimate 1 more creature with the landfall but it wasn't worth it in my opinion
-Sire of Stagnation was a bit too slow, maybe i should try it again instead of Greenwarden of Murasa

Kavio, one key design aspect of your deck is relying on filling the graveyard and reanimating. I guess what you really miss for consistency is a card that fills the graveyard and has an additional benefit. Satyr wayfinder from Magic 2015 would be excellent for this and also helps you ramp to give you option to cast from hand in the later game where required.

I am not familiar with the full B4Z list but I assume you have exhausted all options that give you the ability to populate the graveyard. I think there may be some mill cards that might help. You may also find cards that help and may steer you in a slightly different direction with a further wincon.

I do appreciate though your initial idea for putting the deck together but if the pool does not contain the cards you'd ideally want it can be tough without compromising the design.

Nevermind