My opponent has 2 creatures on the battlefield: Caustic Caterpillar and Managorger Hydra (has 9 +1/+1 counters at this point).


I cast Profane Command for 5 () and chose that the Caustic Caterpillar gets -3/-3 and to bring back a creature with 3 converted mana cost from my graveyard (Fleshbag Marauder).


My hope was that the Caustic Caterpillar would die and my opponent would be forced to sacrifice his managorger hydra due to Fleshbag Marauder's enter the battlefield effect. But, he just chose to sacrifice the Caustic Caterpillar saying that both effects take place same time and he can use same target for both effects. I was wondering if someone could confirm or deny if this is a legal move.


Thanks,
V.

This is not a legal move: the two effects do not take place at the same time. In order to sacrifice the Caterpillar, he must choose to do so before Profane Command starts to resolve (because no one is allowed to activate abilities while a spell is resolving). But if he does this, the Caterpillar will not be around when Fleshbag Marauder's ability resolves, meaning that he is forced to sacrifice his Managorger Hydra. If he does not sacrifice the Caterpillar before Profane Command starts to resolve, the scenario plays out exactly as you expected.

If I'm reading this right, the only target that he gets to choose is the target of Caustic Caterpillar's activated ability. When the Fleshbag Marauder's triggered ability resolves, he chooses and sacrifices a creature at that time; he does not get to point to a vacant space that used to have a card on it and call that his sacrifice. And no way is his activation of the Caustic Caterpillar's ability at the same time as the resolution of Fleshbag Marauder's ability.

Does the following look like the sequence you are describing?

1. Your main phase begins.
2. You get priority and cast Profane Command. You choose the second and fourth modes and X=3. Your target for the second mode is the Fleshbag Marauder card in your graveyard, and your target for the fourth mode is opponent's Caustic Caterpillar. You pay the cost using obtained in an unspecified way. This triggers the ability of Managorger Hydra.
3. You would get priority, but there is a triggered ability to put on the stack. Opponent puts "Whenever a player casts a spell, put a +1/+1 counter on Managorger Hydra." on the stack.
4. You get priority and pass.
5. Opponent gets priority and passes.
6. The top object on the stack (the ability put there in step 3) resolves. Opponent puts another +1/+1 counter on Managorger Hydra.
7. You get priority and pass.
8. Opponent gets priority and activates the ", Sacrifice Caustic Caterpillar: Destroy target artifact or enchantment." ability of Caustic Caterpillar. He chooses the target (which you did not describe) and pays the cost by sacrificing the Caustic Caterpiller and spending obtained in an unspecified way.
9. Opponent gets priority and passes.
10. You get priority and pass.
11. The top object on the stack (the ability activated in step 8) resolves. The target chosen then is destroyed.
12. You get priority and pass.
13. Opponent gets priority and passes.
14. The top object on the stack (the spell cast in step 2) resolves. The second mode returns Fleshbag Marauder to the battlefield, triggering its ability, and the fourth mode does nothing.
15. You would get priority, but there is a triggered ability to put on the stack. You put "When Fleshbag Marauder enters the battlefield, each player sacrifices a creature." on the stack.
16. You get priority and pass.
17. Opponent gets priority and passes.
18. The top object on the stack (the ability put there in step 15) resolves. You sacrifice a creature (either Fleshbag Marauder or some other creature you have on the battlefield). Opponent sacrifices a creature - this means he moves a creature (probably Managorger Hydra) from the battlefield to the graveyard, not that he reminisces about a creature he moved to the graveyard way back in step 8.
19. You get priority and ....

For the two modes you have chosen, here's the order of events assuming all players have passed priority for the spell to begin to resolve:

You put the Fleshbag Marauder onto the battlefield.
Caustic Caterpillar gets -3/-3.
Profane Command is put into its owner's graveyard.
State-based actions are checked and performed (Fleshbag Maruader's triggered ability is put onto the stack and Caustic Caterpillar dies for having 0 or less toughness).
The player whose turn it is gets priority first. If they pass priority and each opponent passes priority, Fleshbag's trigger resolves.
Each player sacrifices a creature.
Caustic Caterpillar is already in its owner's graveyard and is not a valid permanent to sacrifice.

I might not have explained correctly:

My opponent sacrifices the Caustic Caterpillar because of the enter the battlefield ability of the Fleshbag Marauder.

My opponent says that both effects from Profane Command happen at the same time, meaning that his creature gets -3/-3 and that I bring back the Fleshbag Marauder at the same time. So he chooses to sacrifice the Caustic Caterpillar in response to the Fleshbag Marauder's enter the battlefield ability and the -3/-3 effect from Profane Command doesn't have a legal target anymore unless I choose to have the -x/-x done to the only remaining legal target (managorger hydra).

They most certainly do not happen at the same time. Modal spells follow all instructions in the order they are printed. In this case, you put your creature onto the battlefield first, and then the target creature gets -X/-X. Triggered abilities are unable to interrupt this process since the spell is resolving (all parts of a spell must finish being applied before anything else can be put on the stack or anything else on the stack can resolve). Fleshbag's triggered ability will not be put onto the stack until after his Caterpillar has died a horrible death from starving or having its lifeforce drained or whatever flavor you wish to perceive from the Profane Command's effect.

Thanks for the very detailed response, I never was able to visualise how many steps needed to be considered for the interactions of 2-3 cards.
I most likely did not explain the situation correctly; my opponent did not sacrifice the Caustic Caterpillar to pay the cost for it's activated ability of destroying a target artifact or enchantment. I guess my opponent was omitting to do the 'State-based actions are checked and performed' step, which would have dictated that his Caustic Caterpillar is already in the graveyard and cannot be chosen as a sacrifice for the Fleshbag Marauder's effect.

No, not that it really matters.


Then my sequence becomes this:

1. Your main phase begins.
2. You get priority and cast Profane Command. You choose the second and fourth modes and X=3. Your target for the second mode is the Fleshbag Marauder card in your graveyard, and your target for the fourth mode is opponent's Caustic Caterpillar. You pay the cost using obtained in an unspecified way. This triggers the ability of Managorger Hydra.
3. You would get priority, but there is a triggered ability to put on the stack. Opponent puts "Whenever a player casts a spell, put a +1/+1 counter on Managorger Hydra." on the stack.
4. You get priority and pass.
5. Opponent gets priority and passes.
6. The top object on the stack (the ability put there in step 3) resolves. Opponent puts another +1/+1 counter on Managorger Hydra.
7. You get priority and pass.
8. Opponent gets priority and passes.
9. The top object on the stack (the spell cast in step 2) resolves. The second mode returns Fleshbag Marauder to the battlefield, triggering its ability, and the fourth mode gives -3/-3 to the Caustic Caterpillar, reducing it to -2/-2.
10. You would get priority, but there is a state-based action to process. Caustic Caterpillar's toughness is nonpositive, so it is destroyed.
11. You would get priority, but there is a triggered ability to put on the stack. You put "When Fleshbag Marauder enters the battlefield, each player sacrifices a creature." on the stack.
12. You get priority and pass.
13. Opponent gets priority and passes. He might want to sacrifice Caustic Caterpillar to its ability at this time, but he can't because it isn't there anymore. Sacrificing it to something that is going to resolve Real Soon Now is out of the question for two reasons.
14. The top object on the stack (the ability put there in step 11) resolves. You sacrifice a creature (either Fleshbag Marauder or some other creature you have on the battlefield). Opponent sacrifices a creature - this means he moves a creature (probably Managorger Hydra) from the battlefield to the graveyard, not that he reminisces about a creature he moved to the graveyard way back in step 10.
15. You get priority and ....

Maybe he thought that Fleshbag Marauder's triggered ability would resolve before you proceeded to the fourth mode? (Also, changing the target of something like the fourth mode requires something more than "The original target isn't there anymore.")

Thanks for the response, I understand better how the spells works and where my opponent messed up. I will be able to pull this up as a reference for next time that this happens. I guess this all seems pretty straight forward for you pros but it gets quite confusing when playing alone.....

I appreciate the time that everyone took to respond and help me with my question.


V.

You are right: the Step #10 was not done, the "You would get priority, but there is a state-based action to process. Caustic Caterpillar's toughness is nonpositive, so it is destroyed." part was not taken into consideration.

Thank you very much for your assistance.

All the best,
V.

Even if both effects of Profane Command were simultaneous, that wouldn't change the answer: Caterpillar dies long before Marauder tells player to sacrifice.
See, Fleshbag Marauder has a triggered ability. This kind of ability goes on the stack, waits for a while, and then resolve.
When Marauder's etb ability actually resolves, Caterpillar has been dead for quite a while.

Nitpick: The Caterpillar isn't "destroyed" for having a nonpositive toughness, it is put into its owner's graveyard (dies). Indestructible does not prevent a creature from being put into its owner's graveyard (dying) for having 0 or less toughness. Destroy has a very specific game meaning and should not be thrown about so carelessly to describe game actions.

Thanks, I think I understand it much better now: The effect of the Profane Command spell will finish resolving and take effect before the enter the battlefield ability of the Fleshbag Marauder comes in effect, meaning that his Caustic Caterpillar will be in the graveyard already.


Thanks again,

V.

Whoops, I knew that, and I've corrected other people for that in the past.