FWIW, I agree with mjack. Acid Moss is not the biggest problem in the Ramp deck, nor is it the reason that deck is good. And yes, I have been playing with BfZ, if that's the prerequisite to join this conversation.

Yeah honestly Acid Moss is usually just an annoyance. Sometimes it's key to making me lose a game, but the vast majority of the time it's just an expensive ramp spell for them and doesn't delay me significantly. This is especially true now that we have tons of dual lands.

Wait... ...WTF?!?!...Mwonvuli Acid-Moss can find Cinder Glade OR Canopy Vista?!

I'm in love...

Come on, man...even Force knows that!

It never occurred to me at first. Also, it just occurred to me that you can could...

T1 Blisterpod > T2 Nissa's Pilgrimage > T3 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss > T4 Oblivion Sower/Woodland Bellower/Nissa's Renewal > T5 Plated Crusher!!! From there you could use Primal Bellow ftw.

You could also feasibly, in an alternate universe where the skies align, turn 4 Ulamog.

I'm not doing either any time soon.

I hope everyone who uses plated crusher also uses 2 Gaea's revenge, haste and uncounterable is really good and id always take them in exchange for trample

I'd never use natural connection over moss
>ramp at instant speed is pretty pointless
>only 1 more mana to destroy a land, which can destroy people early or at least set them back a turn and is a 2 for 1
>searching a forest isn't a problem since ramp decks are mostly green and it can search the naya battlelands

Depends how fast you need to get to 5 lands. With Planar Outburst in hand and a RDW on the other side, I'm sure you wouldn't mind trading your Moss for Natural Connection.

The instant speed is not the most important thing ever, but it has it's moments. Like combat tricks with landfall and when you wanna keep counter mana open.

I am thoroughly convinced that I am in an ever-increasing arms race with probability, and that the only way to keep probability from getting the upper edge is to be able to cast 2x ramp spells on six mana.

No um.... Natural Connection can be played along with instant speed removal and counterspells (like draw), it can be played a turn earlier on curve, and all-around it adds more consistency at a mana spot where you are still kind of dead?

I think Nissa, 4 vines, and 4 connections makes a pretty decent package for all but the most dedicated builds.

It could be even worse...

The game's set of BFZ cards did not include Volcanic Upheaval and Crumble to Dust, which would have added 7 more land destruction spells to the meta.

well played nev

Zing! 90% Mosstards Argh!!!!

I just went back over my game notes, and in about 1/3 of total losses I've had in the last week, I got hit with moss. Often twice. I can think of multiple games off the top of my head where later on I was one mana short of winning, but lost. I truly believe it's the defining card of the meta, even more than Ulamog. Jahdi offshoot and Retreat to Kphqt32zu (or whatever that's called) mean that ramp decks can survive to hit their bombs now, and Moss just wrecks multi-color midrange decks. Over the last several days I've been winning 75-80% of my games using non-ramp/moss decks, and while that's a bit low I'm fairly happy with it. But I'm rapidly getting very sick of Acid Moss.

thats true about getting planar out early.. if you are selesnya, but my preferred dedicated ramp build is master race NAYA. I get to compliment my planar outbursts with radiant flames.



Certainly in blue decks Natural Connection being instant is a much bigger factor. I'm unsure about the necessity of 2 ramp spells turn 6.

For Jaddi Offshoot/eldrazi really dedicated ramp decks I see moss as superior, (unless simic becomes popular, dont think it will for ramp decks) . Natural connection is probably better as a ramp spell in a midrangeish deck, especially blue ones.

What on earth is with this devotion to Gatecreeper Vine??? Your not playing any gates nor are you running multiple colors. With Blisterpod, you can block a turn 1 play and turn 2 hold up Titan's Presence + Natural Connection OR turn 3 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss!

Also, the fact that you could also chump block with it and sac it to Evolutionary Leap to find a threat, produce mana, is insane to me.

Getting seriously sick of Moss as well. I rarely play 1vs1 but it is play Green with ramp spells or go home. Any other color outside possibly red, is forced to bent over and take it like a good boy because early ramp is focused on green only or situational fetching only Basic Lands. You know, that thing Moss gets around...

LMAO the premier card of the game? No. Not even close. Many people build their decks to withstand a moss easily. Two is not always easy but then again they don't draw two in great probability either. It's a nice card but no better than any other great spell at 4 cost or so. If you get too many of these and a dude is just drawing into land then there is almost no point of it. If you get them late game they will arrest your development of the ramp as well.

Anyone thinking this is kidding themselves or they build bad decks. The premier cards are yet again like Chant from 14 before patches and other decks hit--even after in some ways--Eldrazi, because there are so few things to stop a few of them and you need to be prepared immediately for them. There are more cards like planar and what not but the eldrazi ARE WHAT IS MAKING the ramp deck work in the first place. You can't ramp to nothing folks! And the indestruct is just a bitch and a half to deal with.