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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:44 pm 
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joesenshu wrote:

First off, the list above comes to 59 so I added a third Arsonist.

I played about ten games with this deck today at ranks 8 to 10. On games where I did not misplay badly, my win rate was ~60%. I am a novice player and I feel this deck is a little tough to pilot. It requires a lot of planning. Stalker and Abomination are a bit of a nonbo. If you run out of scions too early both Stalker and Abomination disappear and you lose.

The good players were playing a lot of BG and BGU with Moss in almost every deck(!). This deck is pretty resistant to Moss, but it does hurt your ability to plan ahead. I had one game in the bag until my opponent topdecked Ulamog...

A couple observations:
-I am not sure Ob Nixilus/Nissa works for this deck, since you don't have any beefy blockers. This means your walker mostly acts as a damage magnet (which I guess is valuable but...)
-Are there too many Abominations in the deck? The extra cards are nice but it eats up my board like pac-man
-A lot of times I was wishing I could replace all my Myrs and Arsonists with Thralls
-The only burn is Firecraft, otherwise there is no way to interact with the opponents board other than saccing Myrs and Arsonists.

Next I want to try NightHawk's version of Rakdos aggro. It includes a lot more ingest/processor/burn elements and hinges around Vile Aggregate.


Thanks! I had similar issues with the deck, and it deserves a rework which I will likely write about in the coming weeks.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:08 am 
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Covert - I've played this list quite a few times too and I agree joesenshu on the Abomination. It seems like it should be a great fit here (and this is the type of build for the card) but it does decimate your board to keep it in play (especially when it doesn't have the proper 'food'. There are quite a few games where I don't want to play it because I don't want to sac what is in play). If it draws a card and gets in for 4, then I'm not sure what more you can ask of it. I played it like a 4dmg burn spell basically.

It is however a good start. It's got some great damage potential in it's aggressive creatures, haste beats and plink damage. One thing I did change was adding some Gravedigger action to the list. It helped a lot to have some recursion (same with Mortuary Mire). I think I also squeaked in two Act of Treason into the list. It's good for removing blockers, using it for your sacs and it feels great to steal some Eldrazi. The last thing I added was Shadows of the Past which seems like a 'must' card in this list. It was easy to fill the grave but the repetitive scry was gold. I know I cut one Abomination and one Bone Splinters but I don't recall the other cuts I made. Still it's a great shell and can't wait to see your tweaks/revision.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 2:40 am 
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elk wrote:
Covert - I've played this list quite a few times too and I agree joesenshu on the Abomination. It seems like it should be a great fit here (and this is the type of build for the card) but it does decimate your board to keep it in play (especially when it doesn't have the proper 'food'. There are quite a few games where I don't want to play it because I don't want to sac what is in play). If it draws a card and gets in for 4, then I'm not sure what more you can ask of it. I played it like a 4dmg burn spell basically.

It is however a good start. It's got some great damage potential in it's aggressive creatures, haste beats and plink damage. One thing I did change was adding some Gravedigger action to the list. It helped a lot to have some recursion (same with Mortuary Mire). I think I also squeaked in two Act of Treason into the list. It's good for removing blockers, using it for your sacs and it feels great to steal some Eldrazi. The last thing I added was Shadows of the Past which seems like a 'must' card in this list. It was easy to fill the grave but the repetitive scry was gold. I know I cut one Abomination and one Bone Splinters but I don't recall the other cuts I made. Still it's a great shell and can't wait to see your tweaks/revision.


elk


Thanks elk, appreciate the testing and ideas.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 2:51 am 
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What do you guys think about a rakdos aggro deck which is basically a mono red deck but runs some of the good b/r aggro cards.
I was thinking something like this:

3 x Goblin Glory Chaser
3 x Fiery Impulse
4 x Titan's Strength
4 x Perilous Myr
2 x Abbot of Keral Keep
2 x Mage-Ring Bully
3 x Forerunner of Slaughter
3 x Call of the Full Moon
2 x Twin Bolt
4 x Dominator Drone
1 x Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh
2 x Exquisite Firecraft
1 x Akoum Firebird
2 x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 x Dust Stalker

22 x Land


Deck untested and probably bad. :)
But do you guys think this idea could work or would it be just a bad red deck?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:32 pm 
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I think that deck looks fine Nevius. You've got the nuts RDW plays with Glory Chaser + Aura, and Mage Ring Bully + Titan Strength.. a good value attacker in Forerunner of Slaughter, a bit of reach with Dominator Drone.. several more haste options. I think it's fine if you can wreck face before the sweepers come online. Did you see Nighthawks's Rakdos vid? It incorporates a lot of the same ideas.. but yours mixes those with some of the best, traditional RDW plays.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:40 pm 
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Nevius wrote:
What do you guys think about a rakdos aggro deck which is basically a mono red deck but runs some of the good b/r aggro cards.
I was thinking something like this:

3 x Goblin Glory Chaser
3 x Fiery Impulse
4 x Titan's Strength
4 x Perilous Myr
2 x Abbot of Keral Keep
2 x Mage-Ring Bully
3 x Forerunner of Slaughter
3 x Call of the Full Moon
2 x Twin Bolt
4 x Dominator Drone
1 x Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh
2 x Exquisite Firecraft
1 x Akoum Firebird
2 x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 x Dust Stalker

22 x Land


Deck untested and probably bad. :)
But do you guys think this idea could work or would it be just a bad red deck?


Like mega said, I think it looks pretty good.

I personally would remove Chandra and the 3 Fiery Impulse and put in the remaining 2 Twin Bolt and 2 Ring-Mage Bully. Also, I would have Looming Spires in my lands. Another creature to think about is Makindi Sliderunner...the built-in trample is pretty good.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:55 pm 
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Maybe it's worth testing out if you guys think it could be good.
Where can I find Nighthawks video?

I would never ditch Chandra, I think she's amazing in aggro. I can see ditching the Impulses though. They aren't that great in the current meta.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:09 pm 
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Nevius wrote:
Maybe it's worth testing out if you guys think it could be good.
Where can I find Nighthawks video?

I would never ditch Chandra, I think she's amazing in aggro. I can see ditching the Impulses though. They aren't that great in the current meta.


I don't like Chandra, as much as my Ginger-fetish hates to say it. She's the weakest of the Planeswalkers in Duels to date.

But, if she works for you, cool. She just hasn't been that good for me.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:49 pm 
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Nevius wrote:
Maybe it's worth testing out if you guys think it could be good.
Where can I find Nighthawks video?

I would never ditch Chandra, I think she's amazing in aggro. I can see ditching the Impulses though. They aren't that great in the current meta.


Search Nighthawk233 on YouTube.. be prepared to hear the WORST English speaking human being ever conceived. Besides that, he's a pretty cool guy ;) There is two Nighthawk233s.. our Nighthawk is the one with 100+ videos, the other one is some FPS player with 3-5 Destiny/CoD vids.

I like Chandra too.. she's a little tricky to flip, but the more you play with her, the better you get at flipping her. Once she flips, she wrecks face more than any other planeswalker.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:51 pm 
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Kryder wrote:
Nevius wrote:
Maybe it's worth testing out if you guys think it could be good.
Where can I find Nighthawks video?

I would never ditch Chandra, I think she's amazing in aggro. I can see ditching the Impulses though. They aren't that great in the current meta.


I don't like Chandra, as much as my Ginger-fetish hates to say it. She's the weakest of the Planeswalkers in Duels to date.

But, if she works for you, cool. She just hasn't been that good for me.


Pffft.. she's head and shoulders above Kytheon.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 2:02 pm 
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i dunno. I hate Kytheon but he's an auto-include in any deck that has white for me. I only put Chandra in a third of my red decks.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 2:06 pm 
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Kryder wrote:
Nevius wrote:
Maybe it's worth testing out if you guys think it could be good.
Where can I find Nighthawks video?

I would never ditch Chandra, I think she's amazing in aggro. I can see ditching the Impulses though. They aren't that great in the current meta.


I don't like Chandra, as much as my Ginger-fetish hates to say it. She's the weakest of the Planeswalkers in Duels to date.

But, if she works for you, cool. She just hasn't been that good for me.


Pffft.. she's head and shoulders above Kytheon.


Maybe for you.

But before B4Z, you could look at the number of decks that included Kytheon vs. Chandra, and Kytheon was used more often...by a wide margin. I honestly never kept her in a single deck.

Now, I doubt he's being played at all...Gideon is just money.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:16 pm 
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I'd argue that Kytheon is just as hard to flip.. I'd also argue that he's won me less games than Chandra. How many games did Kytheon win for you? The reason Kytheon has any value is bc he's a 2/1 for one mana.. so you're not playing him bc he's a planeswalker.. you're playing him bc he's an Elite Vanguard. I have Chandra in more decks than I have Kytheon, bc I have a lot of decks with red that play burn spells, and maybe 2 aggressive white decks. I don't include Kytheon in my aura based decks bc he's a nonbo if he flips.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:20 pm 
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I include Chandra in more red decks because I tend to play more red decks than white anyways. That said, in the decks I have included her, she flips easily since they decks are built around the casting of multiple spells a turn regardless.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:26 pm 
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I'd argue that Kytheon is just as hard to flip.. I'd also argue that he's won me less games than Chandra. How many games did Kytheon win for you? The reason Kytheon has any value is bc he's a 2/1 for one mana.. so you're not playing him bc he's a planeswalker.. you're playing him bc he's an Elite Vanguard. I have Chandra in more decks than I have Kytheon, bc I have a lot of decks with red that play burn spells, and maybe 2 aggressive white decks. I don't include Kytheon in my aura based decks bc he's a nonbo if he flips.


You're right, Kytheon is an Elite Vanguard with a huge upside.

Chandra is an overcosted bear named Tim. Seriously, if you flip her, you were probably going to win anyways. By far the worst Planeswalker (not that Kytheon was a winner, either, but he was more playable).

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:27 pm 
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Kytheon isn't better than Chandra cuz of how many games he's won or not won, I think he's better cuz there's very little reason not to include him. If two thirds of my mono-red decks aren't running Chandra, that's cuz she's no good. She's only good in burn decks so I can get the creatures out of the way. She's lethal in that specific build but that doesn't make Little Miss Situational a good card


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:28 pm 
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I honestly think Kytheon is better than Lilly.

There, I said it.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:29 pm 
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I honestly think Kytheon is better than Lilly.

There, I said it.



Glad you got that off your chest.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:30 pm 
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I honestly think Kytheon is better than Lilly.

There, I said it.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:39 pm 
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Kytheon isn't better than Chandra cuz of how many games he's won or not won, I think he's better cuz there's very little reason not to include him. If two thirds of my mono-red decks aren't running Chandra, that's cuz she's no good. She's only good in burn decks so I can get the creatures out of the way. She's lethal in that specific build but that doesn't make Little Miss Situational a good card


She's lethal in any control deck that can keep the board clean and cast one red spell. Burn is just another form of control.. she's super strong in Rakdos.. and with the new counter suite, probably Izzet and Grixis as well. I played her in my Gruul decks FFS. I don't play her in my aura decks though.. same reason as Kytheon.

I'll take Liliana over Kytheon any day.. Kytheon can't even trade with Lili.. her body is so much better.. bc bigger butt.

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