So based on some of the things we talked about Beast, something more like this?

3 x Elite Vanguard
1 x Kytheon, Hero of Akros
3 x Fiery Impulse

3 x Kor Bladewhirl
3 x Consul's Lieutenant
4 x Topan Freeblade
2 x Reprisal

2 x Makindi Patrol
3 x Firemantle Mage
3 x Iroas's Champion
2 x Exquisite Firecraft

2 x Ondu Champion
2 x Munda, Ambush Leader
1 x Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 x Retreat to Emeria


11 x Plains
7 x Mountain
2 x Clifftop Retreat
4 x Evolving Wilds


This is closer to what Beeswax was thinking too (I believe?). Power up the already core cards of Boros with Ally effects. I'm just trying hard to stay away from the enchants which seems to be every Boros deck. I get why they are used and they probably are more consistent than rally triggers but this idea does eliminate 2 for 1 effects and has the potential to work for your whole board. Plus Johnny says hi.


I'll try giving this some runs and see how it plays out.


elk

Yea I agree that I played pretty badly there.
Still the deck felt weak compared to other aggressive decks I played.

Sad to hear you have such bad taste in music

In games 2-3 I agreed with every move.. in game 1 I felt the only chance you had was to keep swinging and pray for some type of miracle topdeck.. since nothing you could do was going to get past a bunch of hexproof 7 drop green bombs. Game 4.. yeah.. that was a bloopers reel.

I'm a death/black metal guy who used to play drums. The 'Bass, Snare, Bass, Snare, Bass, Snare' 2/4 beat that's in 95% of electronic songs really grinds my gears bc it's soooooooooo uncreative. I hate AC/DC for the same reason lol.

I want to watch some more of the stream when I get time.. so I can better learn the new cards.

I can get that a metal guy would not enjoy it.
Cool I probly wil lstream in around 12 hours from now. Come hang out if you can.
You can tell me my misplays and I can try diffrent decks you suggest

I bet I would like his music, what was he playing?

I like Nevis' attitude.

Love the comments on the games, Beast

My thoughts:

Needs more Felidar Cub, cuzz Retreats and Offshoots will laugh at you and you will feel bad. I know CLS is like the hardest hitting wheenie in the format; but at 2 plains there's low chance you curve out with him. Also Mossboys. Dare I say it ? -3 Lieutenant +3 cub. Also maybe can cut a land and try 2 to cut 1/2 more for Call of the Full Moon. People like chumping with gates and Ondu champ comes a bit late to the party; and your manabase doesn't really support him. Although Firemantle Mage seems like he would do this job in part.

Oh and at least 3* looming spires.

Well we don't want to feel bad now do we? Although won't Offshoots laugh anyway (minus removal options)? I'm not seeing how the cub would help there. Life gain is definitely a problem now though. Ideally I'd like to increase the power level to compensate than adding cards for certain situations. It's why Hedron Network went away (could have used it the other night though ).

The is tough but it definitely is not the card to cut. Boros, Selesnya etc all take advantage of this card because of it's power level. I also made all the early plays and skewed the mana to allow Lieutenant the best opportunity to curve. Now it may be right to consider Full Moon to help force this through on later turns since Ondu is 'late'. Still, I always feel terrible when I have to gimp my casts so I don't lose the enchantment or my opponent puts in the effort to ensure it drops off. I think I'd rather go with the Bloodlust or War Paint idea before Full Moon. As I mentioned before though, I was trying to get the job done through Rally vs. going the standard enchant route Boros always plays. Having said that, it's becoming more and more difficult to do so and this meta may not be the right time to push this sort of theme.

elk

Oh but you Do have the right plainscount to play Lieutenant, your manabase if fine (except for imo the champ and the spires). But since moss is so pupular and retreats are on the uptick, T1 offshoot T2 gate T3 retreat T4 moss you, then you topdeck lieutenant, is..... auto-loss.

Honestly I don't play alot of red/white based aggro so I might be totally wrong about this. Was just my thoughts based on my observations of the meta. Not dissing your building skills and I DID run the deck to goldfish vs AI 4 times before posting

I was kinda of eluding to that in my post. It might not be the right meta to try and make Allies work. If there were ways to increase the power level w/o adding enchants everywhere, then it might be viable. Ideally it would be great if there were more (cheap) anthem effects other than the Lieutenant, Gideon and Retreat (or heaven forbid, no rarity restrictions so I could run 4 Gideons )


Mock away! If I'm willing to post to the forums, I have to be willing to take the heat for bad ideas, bad choices and bad builds. Realistically though, the feedback is the best way to improve the idea/deck or determine if it's worth salvaging. So if you're testing/playing the build and giving constructive criticism/feedback, that is always welcome.


What were the results? What were the winning turns? I'm assuming you got stuck on the Lieutenant a couple times?


elk

I've been playing both ramp/lifegain and aggro lately. In my experience aggro decks absolutely need auras now to get past Offshoots and push enough damage through before the slow setups turn the tides.

I'd never build an aggro deck without buffs and evasion/trample. Of course this sets you up for card disadvantage, but there are no second chances anyway. You win fast or you don't.

Unfortunately this makes you very vulnerable to decks with early spot removal. Well, I'd say that these are bad times for aggro fans.

Well aggro will still get plenty of free wins of slow clunky decks like yours geg . Nah i'm only half serious, I love your deck, but it's true that RDW and other red based aggro will keep punishing even slightly bad keeps/unlucky draws.
Evasion and Reach, as you said, is the key though. Too many gates/chumpers around.



Hahaha same. I'm still baffled that so few people decided to comment negatively on my Sultai Superfriends (definately needs tuning, even though I still think the general approach has merit) or earlier version of Grixis. People around here are so polite. Well. Right now, they are ! Last month didn't happen !



Erm yes, He got stuck twice, even though theoretically speaking, that was very unlucky; another time he got bounced and I moved up the curve instead. The mage was MVP; so was looming spires. But it's vs AI, so who gives a crap, spent half the time thinking about what would probably happen in a real versus. Did not get to see Retreat in action really. Way too small sample anyway.
Maybe someone more into red aggro should test it with you.

I don't have the cards.. but from what I've seen (been following as closely as I can) I think that's an accurate assessment. Just going with creatures isn't enough.. and the rally buffs just ARE NOT good enough. Nothing with rally on it says 'make more damage' it's all first strike, vigilance, menace, lifelink, indestructible, etc. Screw all that.. damage needs to be done. The game is loaded with sweepers now.. you can't sit back and.let these decks get to 5-8 mana.

I really think pump spells on double strikers/tramplers is the way to go. Elk.. why aren't you running that 1/1 white flying double striker? With Titan Strength that's 8 damage.

Arrrgh

Well, but let's take my bant awaken to illustrate the point: With nothing but Gatecreepers and Offshoots I have no problems whatsoever against people who simply play creatures every turn. I block a little, gain a little life and often I even end up above 20 life on my third turn with a turn 5 sweeper to look forward to.

What my deck loses against is a 1-drop followed by auras and buffs. Little chance to survive that without early removal and if I wanted to guarantee one in my opener, I would have to make a lot of cuts in other areas.

However, even if they run about 7 auras, there's no guarantee for a perfect start. Aggro needs the right mix of lands, creatures and auras for an explosive opener and to be really deadly it also needs to be on the play. The latter obviously happens about 50% of the time and then you still have to meet the other requirements. So the real auto-win is actually not that common. Let's just make up a number and say that aggro has an auto-win 30% of the time and the rest can swing either way. That makes the matchup 65% in favour of aggro. The sad thing is that this is the best matchup aggro can hope for.

I thought about another way to punish ramp without exposing myself to sweepers and stuff. My plan was to take the 6 3-cmc double strikers, haste auras and cheap damage buffs, to save up for one big lethal swing out of nowhere while they're tapped out.

Well, don't try this at home... you'll never get all your pieces together.

ramp can't have too many sweapers can it? 3 in gruul (one of them not something they want though) and 2 in selenya... remind me again, why hasn't anyone other then night_hawk done naya yet?

You can pair pretty much everything with green, so there's always access to sweepers. I don't know how the average joe builds his ramp deck, but why would it be bad to clear the board on the way to Eldrazi?

so what aggro deck wins by turn 5 on the play? wait green actually ramps now... turn 4 on the play

you know I never considered what effects 5 mana board clears like PO and TA would do to a meta game, but I think those might be the real problem here

Yes, they're pretty good. Good against aggro, good against other ramp decks. That's why I'd expect to see them a lot. Planar Outburst is probably the best card in duels right now. Not only does it clear the whole board, it creates a hasted wincondition for a free swing. This card wins me most of my games and I don't mean that it saves me for a comeback, it is actually the last spell in the game more often than not.

If you wanna go aggro, it must be capable of turn 4 kills past Gatecreepers and Offshoots, which is quite a challenge. That's why I can think of nothing but enchantments to do that, which in turn results in a loss against early spot removal. I don't wanna fold to every instant removal.

Why not Izzet? A lot of cheap creatures, some with evasion, pump, enchantments, burn and cheap counters against board wipes or removal. I'd try it instead of Boros because there are too many chumps.

How about adding some Act of Treason? Sucks against the hexproof creatures though...meh.