Definitely not on Xbox One ;-)

The douchebaggery is real

Gemini Thopters, 3 cards slotted in for testing. -1 pulse +1 dispel +2 aggregate -2 abbot.

3/2

1 vs MonoMOSSTARD: Flipped chandra on play like a champ, T6 kill. Win

2 vs golgari control: myrs into tinwbolts to clear a path for Spy network. Network + evasion laughs at evolpea + languish. Win.

3 vs Gruul landfall, MIDRANGE (told you guys this was a deck). He goes double landfall 2/2. I got myrs, but he has a reclamaton sage I have to trade with. I drop aggregate T3 as a blocker. He doesnt attack, instead plays another dude. I think I've won. I drop another myr, pulse a 2/2. He goes Zendikar's roil into ramp into oblivion sower scoring A FETCH AND A FOUNDRY, into .... Omnath. Incredible. 1 of boys. I misread the deck, I just figured it was landfall aggro, and sat back thinking my superior later drops and removal would just destroy him, especially with a big blocker. Not that my draws allowed for much else. Note: go to 6 on draw next time for a more proactive hand.

4 vs Rakdos aggro: Didn't listen to my previous note, and glad for it, I'm always full of **** after I lose. He's the beatdown early on. Twinbolts make him cry twice. Drop double network during defense, launch an engineer, moments later Aggregate swings in for over 9000. win.

5 vs Gruul MOSSTARD : Kids, Gather 'Round, we need to Talk: I keep a hand of Guildgate/fetch, disperse, chief, double engineer, firecraft after free mull on the play. Risky as hell. I do get the third land and proceed to beat face. He has twinbolts and Pulses and has even time to Moss my guildgate. I do NOT fetch blue even though I have disperse, since I have firecraft and I just have to Get There. T6 he drops Omnath and makes a token, but I get him at 4 life on my next attack. , T7 he plays land, ignites, killing my board, bringing me to 4. I have 2 mountains and a foundry, and a disperse + firecraft.
The he plays ACID MOSS . Ok no problem, if I draw mountain I still win. Topdeck a fetchland. Tilted. Went to editor, -1 telling time +1 mountain. Results based Rage and all that.

Thopters still legit imo. 15/1 sounds like BS, but w/e, maybe I just suck.

I was actually going to say that in aggressive decks splashing blue we really need to consider running Dispel, but it looks like you beat me to it.

Cute little write-up, but if you were going to test my deck then why'd you tweek it?

Also, I was live streaming on Xbox One all this morning. Hakeem was a witness to quite a few games but I stayed about 2 hours after to try and hit my daily cap (still need 2 more games or so). I believe I ONLY lost to a turn 2 Jace in the mirror. After, the stream i lost again due to keeping a 1 lander on the draw BUT I nearly won...just failed to sequence plays correctly. Also, we do not have the expansion on Xbox One so I don't know how a ramp meta looks like.



Dispel is a beautiful card. I want it JUST to protect my walkers, various instant speed removals, and setup spells (draw + Natural Connection). I'd play 2-4 depending on how i feel about the meta after BFZ hits.

Tweaked it to hedge a little bit vs the meta.
Aggregate has Value since it tramples over; there are ALOT of chumps being played, as good as abbot is, you don't wanna titan's strength it to beat an eldrazi scion. Your version wants to do damage. Uncontested aggregate into Pia & Kiran is a 4/5 trampler swinging in T4.
Dispel since even though people currently don't run alot of twinbolt, the deck is really soft to it sometimes, and occasionally it can be a gigantic blowout since noone expects it.
It's 3 cards man. You can't say that I didn't test 'your' deck. The sample is small and maybe people will pick it up. It's interesting since, due to radiant flames and other new sweepers + lifegain people are saying thopters is dead. Which is why I liked your really agressive take on it.

I wasn't aware you were still playing in origins meta. Obviously I'd expect higher win rates there, it's a tS deck.

1) Chandra WINS GAMES on her own. Titan's Strength I will agree on you on...but I'd wait till BFZ.
2) I may consider Fiery Conclusion as a 1-of once BFZ hits.
3) Telling Time finds my pieces fast and I can reuse it with Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. Also, its an instant!
4) Pia and Kiran Nalaar is better. There is nothing huge to make unblockable, that a different deck with Nantuko Husk

Yeah in this version as is I'd play chandra too. Jace is good too since you are putting so much pressure, if they don't have flames, they are gonna bite themselves in the ass if they spend mana to remove it. Pia and kiran is NOT better, in a more balanced thopter version rogue is better since it can effect even a smalll dude to change the clock. but I respect the choice here. It's 6 to the face if you untap (you sac the myr you just played from hand, not the thopters ).

is just game y u hav be mad rabble

Elk, took your thopters for another run. Went 9-1

Overall record is 44-7, with a best streak of 15

My thopters are 27-5, with a best streak of 8

[Disclaimer] DJ proposed more optimistic results from his preliminary calculations than I do here, he's out drinking currently, so unless someone wants to run it right now, the percentages are considered too low 'till we sober up. I'm also off to happy hour.

All right you naughty children, I'm still too peeved about the cyclical 'let's get all internetz on someone, it will be fun' condition this forum has to post anything else; but in the interest of deckbuilding, I have something to present.

No brew this time. Something spikey for a change.

Theorycrafting in collaboration with DJ 0045, and my playtesting, have shown this list to be the potential rock of duels; and I submit if for further discussion:

4 x Fiery Impulse

4 x Alchemist's vial
3 x Tightening Coils
4 x Disperse
3 x Telling Time

3 x Sphinx's tutelage
2 x Scatter to the Winds
2 x Spell Shrivel
4 x Artificer's Epiphany
2 x Radiant Flames

2 x Inspiration
2 x Countermand
1 x Brutal Expulsion

8 x Island
4 x Mountain
2 x Prairie Stream
2 x Clifftop Retreat
2 x Sulfur Falls
2 x Glacial Fortress
4 x Izzet Guildgate


This list has a 51% chance of dropping T3 tutelage on the play, and a 69,5% chance on the draw (or T4 on play). Calculations include mulligan to 6; and all known variables. DJ said the math looks sound, but afaik he has not run a full check yet.

Other remarks:

This deck is the most consistent to play an early tutelage. (heavily slated blue, max card selection, simple manabase). Heartily invite you to do the math on sultai or bant, but it's more complex; and alot of work. Gut feeling say this statement is true.
This deck has the best protection for your early tutelage (6 playable counters, 4 disperse). Potentially 3 colour mill can run just as many or more counters; but shrivel is the only one they will cast consistently early. This, amongst other reasons, also makes this deck heavy fav in mill mirror, only losing to mono mill
This deck probably has the best mill matchup vs RDW style aggro (t3 whipes, pulses, disperse, coils). White weenie variants may be stronger vs this than vs sultai fog.
This deck has 4x Time walk, as far as we are concerned. (4x disperse)
Radiant Flames for x=3 occurs, but is not prioritized, since it is less relevant to the current meta as one might think. Prevalence was given to maximize mana consitency for tutelage over big flames.
This deck may use either 1 more land to maximize consistency further and / or add in 1 Brutal expulsion as further anti Gaea tech (should the meta require it).
This deck requires correct mulligan decisions, if you are, like me, not a natural rain man, your win rate should go up many %points through experience. Tight play outside of the free wins will be mandatory. The maths suggest the decision of keeping the free mulligan on the play is the hardest. Going to 6 on the play is horrible for this build.
This is a percentage deck, and an exercice in building. The expected wins on mull to 6 on play or post T5 tutelage will be depressing to the optimists.

.

Have at it.

Brutal Expulsion can hit Gaea? Huh?

I like the deck.. should be strong against ramp.

Rabs come back!

brutal expulsion doesn't technically say counter and gaea isn't on the field yet so non-green spells can still interact with it on the stack

for example: aethersnatch could actually steal GR from the opponent

Ok I am a novice player and I have never played a mill deck before, but who am I to argue with your cold hard mathematics? I used your deck as is with no modifications.

Start at rank 12

Game 1:UW Aggro
opening hand: 2 land + tutelage
Opponent starts with suntail hawk (which gets coils) and Anointer
Somehow I allow my opponent to resolve Retreat to Emeria (probably a misplay...). This thing is a PITA
I draw a land and play Tutelage.
Tokens. Tokens. Tokens!
Flames wipes the board :-)
More tokens.
Down to 6 life. Opponent uses retreat to pump team, swings for lethal. In response I activate Tutelage. Topdeck Disperse! Play disperse! WIN!!!!
Ok that game was closer than it needed to be but very fun

Game 2: Thopters
3 lands, no tutelage. I am able to delay and counter a good long time and expend all my draw cards digging for Tutelage. Finally on turn 6 I draw it, but by that time my opponent has played out Thopter Spy Network. I wipe out four Thopters with Flames but they keep coming. Had to discard 2nd Tutelage on Tutelage activation because I played out my hand instead of keeping a land (misplay I think). He won with 6 cards left in his library.

Game 3: Boros aggro
Opening hand 2 lands + Tutelage
Turn 1 glory chaser from opponent but I have coils for the chaser and the follow-up Vanguard. I Shrivel a Skyhunter and he quits. Easy win.

Notes: having Tutelage in your opening hand makes a huge difference. Since activating Tutelage lets you swap out a card in your had, do not go down to 0 cards if you can help it. I would have won game 2 if I could have resolved the 2nd Tutelage. I got burned by Retreat to Emeria and Thopter Spy Network. My games would have been much easier if I could have countered these enchantments.

FWIW, I did not have any problem getting double blue, and I cast Flames for 3 damage three times in three games.

4 x feiry impulse

4 x perilous myr
2 x sigil of valor
3 x fiery conclusion
4 x twin bold

3 x cheif of the foundy
3 x thopter engineer
4 x aritificers epiphany
2 x exqusite firecraft

3 x whriler rogue
2 x pia and kiran nalaar
1 x reclusive artificer

2 x thopter spy network

8 island
8 moutain
2 sulfurfalls
1 foundry of the consuls
4 x izzet guildgate



hi mates, thats my deck wich is fun to play but cant really pass 20lvl with it so can u help me to change it please? cheers mike

-4 Fiery Impulse
-1 Reclusive Artificer
-3 Fiery Conclusion

+2 Soulblade Djinn
+1 Willbreaker
+3 Runed Servitor
+2 Disperse

You're a creature deck.. not a control deck. There's just way too much removal there in a Thopters list. Soulblade Djinn gives you another big flyer AND more anthem effects, Willbreaker gives you an out to stalled board.. and can flat out break your opponent's back. Runed Servitor gives you another decent body to attack early with.. and gets buffed by Chief. Disperse hits everything except Gaea and the Hexproof dudes.

My current take on Izzet Thopters:

Creatures (21):

4x Perilous Myr
1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy

3x Chief of the Foundry
3x Thopter Engineer

2x Pia and Kieran Nalaar
3x Whirler Rogue
3x Reclusive Artificer

2x Soulblade Djinn


Non-creature spells (15):

4x Alchemist's Vial
4x Disperse

1x Ghirapur AEther Grid
4x Artificer's Epiphany

2x Thopter Spy Network


Lands (24):

9x Island
6x Mountain
2x Sulfur Falls
3x Foundry of the Consules
4x Evolving Wilds


Pretty mid-range-y strategy for this type of deck, with four "odd-ball" cards you don't see every day in Thopters: those being Jace, Reclusive Artificer, Disperse and Ghirapur AEther Grid.

I definitely like Jace and Disperse in this list. Disperse ist just an incredibly flexible tempo card that screws your opponent over on multiple occasions. Jace only has 8 targets in this deck to flashback (the 4-of copies of Disperse and Artificer's Epiphany), but these spells are very good and on-theme for this deck; and also Jace's loot ability is greatly appreciated to help find the cards you need early in the game.

The 1-of AEther Grid is nice in grindy match-ups; pinging either the opponent or their creatures for at least 1 a turn off two Alchemist's Vials (or 1 Alchemist's Vial and 1 summoning sick artifact creature) is nice.

I am not 100% sure about the Reclusive Artificers, but I found them to be pretty good. 4 mana 2/3: Deal 2 damage is already solid (hey there Mardu Heart-Piercer), and this very often deals more damage than that, killing some mid-sized threats (or any aggro threat, for that matter). I could see adding in Runed Servitor instead of them, but I feel like that would be overkill on 2-drops.

Please let me know what you guys think!

I honestly don't know how Thopters are still a thing, but I do still see them occasionally. How is this working for you?

With so many sweepers in the game it just seems impossible to get anywhere with them. I gave up after going something like 5-7 with them.

Thopters may be dead, but tokens seem to be the real deal, at least to me. I've been working on it a bit. Currently a 4-color pile, but that's surely not necessary. On the subject of thopters, it was always slow the way most people built it. You just can't really call a deck viable when it runs 8-12 4 drops. Meanwhile, tokens can play a realistic curve, and has a variety of solid finishers. Sweepers are dangerous, but not if you play tokens correctly. 3-5 tokens represents anywhere from 6-15 damage next turn, assuming you are holding the right cards, and the opponent better assume you are (e.g. Waste a sweeper on two goblin tokens plus some other garbage). Also the mana requirements for thopters have always been a bit over-enthusiastic, IMO. I'm not surprised that they aren't really beating face anymore.

For izzet, I'm currently a fan of prowess, aggro control. Low curve creatures, counters, and return effects is the way to go, IMO.

They work okay for me. Yes, sweepers are dangerous, but Thopters has quite some ways to refill the board between Spy Network, Foundry of the Consules, Artificer's Epiphany or just Dispersing one of your own creatures to refill the board directly after a sweeper.

You could definitely try running some counterspells to avoid sweepers I think. My first ideas for cuts include the more expensive cards in the deck like Reclusive Artificer and Sooulblade Djinn.




The token strategy sounds interesting. I suspect it is currently Nephilim without black?