I feel ya, it's been every turn 4 play I'm facing atm vs ramp decks. Always in hand/on draw for turn 4. And if they do, then it's usually followed by a 2nd one the turn after.

Bored now, can I play magic yet?

He said that deck was bad.. needs more Rabblemasters.

Personally, I want more land destruction cards like Moss in the meta anyway.

Why do you feel that way?

Jund LD is the dream Mega. Plus it's variety.

Against ramp it did well, 8-1. I haven't played it in a few days, so mayhaps I am behind the times there. I haven't even had time to help you out with your Gruul dreams, with all the other decks I'm making, Destiny (I am so behind the times), Fallout 4 et al.

Fallout 4 is the Cat's meow.. I love it and I've done almost none of the main quest.

It's interesting but there are I guess 3 in built mechanics in the game that lead to victory but at the expense of your opponents game.

a) hand destruction
b) land destruction
c) mill

I get the OP's point about making the game a less than rewarding experience.

Personally on steam I have not been seeing this but 2 things to note are I have only just been recently playing steam with the B4Z release and as such I am only facing opponents that are less than rank 15 (highest has been 12).

My main issue is I have a very limited unlock so face decks with far better builds. So yes there is an obvious solution for that.

I agree if I was seeing a lot of land destruction, hand destruction or mill it would ultimately put me off playing, at least in versus.

I can sympathise too as recently I played with some of the NGA forum members in a 2HG match. Our opponents were both running acid moss. Luckily my limited build deck was fast enough that I could put out a board and chip away at their health. My partner suffered badly sitting at 2 or 3 land in a hand stacked with high cost spells.

When our opponents stabilised and had plenty of land and ramped into Eldrazi it was game over.

Not a match to write home about or remember but it got the job done on their end.

You can take the other view and challenge yourself to build decks that are a counter to these types of deck. The great thing about magic is no one deck archetype or meta is permanently dominant. You can make it your mission to e.g. build a deck to beat aggro. This is okay until you run into its counter.

Thinking about this also I don't know if land destruction is the worst of the 3 cases listed. I will probably put up a poll.

not gonna include counter-magic in that list?

That's all i've been playing today, and its still pretty damn good.

I don't see how that deck wins

K rant over I'm back.

Switched to playing tricky tight decks. Destroying Moss players.

Still not right though. We should have other options than massively outplaying the opponent / playing tempo/aggro.

sure you do

just not worry about getting high rank

I'm trying this new strategy where I reduce my opponents life to 0

Using another deck?

Babs I don't consider counter magic as destructive as in stopping you being able to 'play'. LD is by far the worst, followed by hand destruction and finally mill hence why listing them in that order.

I guess mill does not stop you playing cards but disrupts your choices, you can argue counter magic does that too (clearly it does) but not at the expense of taking options away from you like the other 3, besides with careful play you can play around counter magic, it's all a question of timing which ain't true of the others really (bar mill).

Have barely seen it played on Steam lol rank 15 now.

I use one in like maybe two builds and it goes in and out for other cards too. Nice card. Far from broken jesus. I recover from a land bust usually better than not running 23 to 26 land for all my dual colors up to 61 cards.

Every game since I hit rank 20 has been Ramp of some form, bellow that was a lot of RDW/Aggro. It's there on Steam, hell even I was running it until I got bored.

After further playing I stand by it that this card should be banned from the format.

Its inclusion limits the amount of viable deck types incredibly. Sure you can do 2 colour or even a competitive 3 colour deck if you have specific answer to only that card. But if you aren't playing aggro, you need ramp yourself or a t3 counter.

There are literally TONS of decks out there that could be a blast to play, and be competitive without being top tier. Moss just throws it out of the window.
Take this decklist for exampe : http://forum.nogoblinsallowed.com/viewtopic.php?p=387384#p387384
This would probably not be top tier because of inconsistency; but it's a really creative and fun build that has alot of potential. Moss makes it unplayable. You are basically forced to slot in 4 spell shrivel and hope you got it.

It is Meta- defining, way more than RDW/ulamog. Currently Any deck with green in it is better of for running it, if you do, you get to do powerfull stuff and your opponent doesn't, you get to play enchantment based and landfall based decks and your opponent doesn't.
It makes splashing a colour Free for whatever it is you are doing; allows you to play death and taxes in simic tempo decks...

Any control deck that is not green based has T3 shrivel or dives.
If you ARE green, there is no deckbuilding recquired to make a serviceable deck. You can just either ramp in a gruul style for T5 fatties or durdle endlessly with lifegain/chumpblockers whilst setting your opponent back a turn T4. The only deck where this fails consistently against is RDW, or Trample/Flier based aggro decks if you don't draw a whipe. Aristocrats is whipe resillient so should be also in that list.

Really a pitty for the diversity of the game.

This stuff is pretty close to FlashHulk/Cawblade levels of annoyance. Throw that card out.

Tricky to know what to do as once you unleash the hounds you cannot round them up, or another analogy is once the genie is out the bottle.

I guess you are saying, and no reason to doubt otherwise, that these type of decks are not viable in terms of being competitive. I agree it's a pity as there will be some interesting builds that otherwise may have their day. Folks can still build and run but run the risk of being constantly screwed over by the moss. Sucks but can't see an answer for it.