I signed up for an account here a short time ago and have tried to join in the conversation and make meaningful (if small) contributions of my own. This is really the only active forum that I have found that discusses Duels other than Reddit. However, as a new person on the forum, I found the environment here to initially be pretty unfriendly and it has gotten progressively worse.

The pending release of BFZ was met with high expectations and when that was delayed things took a nosedive. Some posters attempted to create drama to counteract the "boredom." When the mods stepped in and handed down punishments for people stirring the pot, the battle lines got drawn a bit, with folks either leaping to defend or pile on the posters that the mods punished. Now, things have descended into blatant, unapologetic and near-constant trolling.

All of this represents a clear danger to the future of this board. Long-time posters who feel slighted by the moderation have stopped posting. Infrequent and new posters (like me) feel disinclined to try to sort through the chaff to find any actual relevant posts that aren't simply an attempt to incite arguments. Potential new members are surely being put off as well.

Moderators should enforce the rules as quickly, even-handed and consistently as possible, yes. But creating a police state of moderation is only likely to stifle conversation and further drive folks away.

There is only one solution: people on this board need to take responsibility for themselves and act like adults. To quote Keanu Reaves you must "be excellent to one another." Ignore posts and posters that are clearly attempting to goad the board into off-topic (or marginally on topic) mudslinging. Avoid overly harsh and negative rants. Tone down the hyperbole. Cut the mods some slack - they are doing the best job that they can with little thanks. Be open and welcoming to new people. When you express an opinion, do so without being demeaning of those who might disagree.

As long as folks keep slinging mud or keep interacting with (and therefore encouraging) other folks who are slinging mud, the current state of affairs is going to continue.

I totally agree and maybe for all the 'regulars' make a commitment (assuming you can and want to) that as long as duels is around you will support this community.

Although not from massive research as such I do have a 'gut' that we are lucky to have this type of community and the type of content and posters we have had historically. There will never be the critical mass I feel so I want to be around and try and see what can be done in the famine period.

For now is it a good idea to come up with ideas for threads or activities that are game related that people would be happy to partcipate in. Again maybe due to access or time issues but the meta results thread seemed to end abruptly without a conclusion but I appreciate it can be both difficult to organise and partcipate in fully.

Judging by the fifteen minutes of silence here, I think I can make a fair guess as to what has happened and say I hope a period of peace can be had here and we can heal in time to be our normally fairly cheerful and more or less decent selves if and when BFZ ever actually drops.

I eagerly await any mention from the mod staff as to changes in rules or their interpretations so that we know how to handle this situation the next time it (hopefully years down the road) happens.

Okay, I had to run for a bit. Believe it or not, I work... A lot.

Now that I'm back, and I see where the thread has gone, I'd like state a few things.

1) we really need more permanent ways to deal with these situations. (E.g. The don't be a jerk on purpose addition to the CoC).
2) hidden within this thread there are some newish (or less active) posters. None of them sounded very positive. We as a community should strive to find ways to reverse this trend.
3) I guess, despite my generational (I really meant generational not general) dislike of the idea of reporting posts, I guess it's healthier for the forum, so I, and probably others should change our views and report rather than respond

Other thoughts:
1) I wish we had a mod that was an active contributor to our sub. It would make it easier for them to identify the problem people faster, because they'd be aware of what was going on in general.
2) I never intended to single anyone specific out with the OP, and I have no idea who fired the first shots, so I'm not even sure who deserves the blame (I'm talking about the main board, not this thread, btw: e.g. I don't know why this spiraled out of control... Did the community start the fire?). I'm sad that it was taken that way. This was not a unique incident, not by any measure. I'd prefer to bring people into the fold somehow, rather than force them out.
3) even if the current specific situation is resolved, the problem will likely persist/return unless we as a community band together by changing our attitudes, fixing some posting habits, making our community as welcoming as possible, etc...

Cleanup has now been completed. Turns out I missed a few things on my first pass.

This thread and the events leading up to it have made clear that we're severely understaffed as far as the Duels forum goes; there's just way too much going on across too many threads for Mastergear to be able to deal with everything in a timely manner. That's definitely something we're going to be trying to fix.

For suggestions that go beyond increasing staffing levels, w6ire, SquiderDragon, and others have been making a lot of good points here, and I'd like to encourage discussion along those lines in the meantime.


While this is sometimes true, it's also often hard to see except in hindsight. It's far, far too easy to look at existing problems and extrapolate those into a future that will never actually happen.

Doesn't Garren count?

I whine to kheldar that his presence is missed both as a user and moderator, but he always just falls back on how "work" is a time monster. What a jerk

I wasn't aware he was a mod, but yes he'd count. At least in the deck forum, but probably in general as well.

Mastergear = Garren.

But shhhhhh. It's a secret and if it gets out it will stop his plans for world domination.

Edit: Now if you thought we needed more than 1, there might still be something to discuss. Kheldar has only posted four times in the entire last year, so he's obviously very busy.

Without outing who kheldar is (since it was a better kept secret than mastergear), he still posts, but he is no longer part of the Dotp community.

...I mean that SOUNDS very wise, but it also sounds to me like an unfounded truism.

This x1000.

This is the core of the problem. People are permitted to start toxic conversations that pit community members against each other, divide the community and generally stir the chit. The CoC and the stupid 'strikes' rules doesn't prevent this, so long as they word is cleverly.. but with a little research into the context, the intentions of said posters can be deciphered. For instance.. the poster who is currently causing tons of drama in the Duels section has started a bunch of polls designed to divide the community. The subject matter of these polls started in other threads.. and if the Gobos did a little digging.. they'd know that the intentions.of the poster were.malicious in nature.

The strikes rule works for people who make mistakes.. get fired up and lash out, say something offensive, etc. But it does nothing to stop someone who plays the CoC as to not directly violate it, and in doing so makes DESTRUCTIVE THREADS/POSTS designed to cause drama. I think this should be in the 2-strikes and you're out arena.. because this type of offender is trying to actively harm the community.. their intentions are sinister, malicious and the worst kind of trolling.

This is also why folks don't use (trust) the report button. It often ends up that the offender is told 'no-no.. don't do that' a few posts are deleted and everything goes back the way it was.. nothing was truely fixed or handled. The enforcement is ineffective.. bc the CoC says "When XYZ happens, you do ABC in response." As Barney said.. the CoC should be a guideline.. not black and white law. Use your brains Gobos.. don't be lazy.. do a little detective work and purge the community of trolls.. give us our Duels forum back.. the one where we're like a big, extended family, instead of being pitted against each other by devious, manipulative trolls.

@megabeast:
While I agree that it is a problem, it is also far from the only problem.
Matter of fact, the reason this entire thread was made was because I got involved in it and asked DJ0045 to make it. And I got involved through off-topic posting from Duels regulars that had nothing to do with the drama that ensued.

As for the report button:
I assume you are aware that we are given areas to moderate, yes? We can theoretically act anywhere, but if I take myself as example, my main interest lies in the PbP-area. So I have a better connection with the posters there. I know absolutely nothing about the D&D area and Duels and just occasionally post in other areas.
If the designated mods are not available for whatever reason, one can assume that it is possible that other mods (like myself) have to assist. Now, imagine a complete newbie looking at the forum. I would not have any idea where to start.
The report button has several functions. It helps the designated moderator to acknowledge quickly there is a problem (I got e-mails the few times there was a report in PbP, so I assume that is similar for the other mods), but it also helps the out-of-area-mods to acknowledge where the problem lies. I do not have that connection to the Duels posters and will mostly follow the letter of the CoC in situations like those. And yes, that means also acting against the people agressively responding to a troll. (Note that to this date I have done nothing mod-wise outside of my own area. This is just an example.)
So if there is no report, you are shutting out the signal to most of the staff that there is in fact a problem.

But nothing obligates you (or anyone else) to respond to those threads. The person posting is trying to generate negative responses, cause dissension, and bask in the warm glow of the interwebs burning.

When you take the bait and respond to a thread like this, the trolls have already won.

It's far better for everyone if folks ignore those threads and report them to the mods so that they can take action. A troll that doesn't get attention will quickly go somewhere else. The more attention, argument and "discussion" a thread like this generates, the more likely that action is to continue.

I definitely understand what you are saying here scarlett. It is very difficult for someone from the outside looking into the duels forum to understand what is going on. I also understand that you guys are currently understaffed in the duels subforum. I heard there is only one mod in that section, not sure if that is true.

PS: I also sent you a pm in regards to this matter exactly.

What you say is true.. but you know, as well as I.. that somebody ALWAYS feeds them!! A lot of times someone with an opinion that agrees with the malicious goal of the troll will feed the fire. For instance: When a nasty troll posts 'Console Duels players have inferior skills to Steam Duels players' some PC elitist will come along and say, 'hurr hurr, yep that's right! Herp derp PC MasterRace!' At this point.. the troll is winning bc he incited a forum member to make divisive statements that would have otherwise gone unsaid.

"Don't feed the trolls" is as far as I'm concerned a totally discredited philosophy of forum management. If something is repeated from the dawn of the Internet and yet people never seem to learn, the solution isn't to repeat it more fervently, the solution is to find a better way of running forum communities.

Do you see what I'm saying about this being a dogma rather than a strategy? Just repeating stuff over and over again doesn't turn it into fact.

If everyone showed restraint, it would be a non-issue. You are right that there are some people who (for whatever reason) can't seem to control themselves and they have to feed the beast (no offense intended ).

But everyone who refrains from posting in response to the troll(s) helps to de-escalate the thing just a little bit and everyone who can't control themselves and wants to argue the trollish point makes it worse. In the situation you describe, you have to decide what's more important to you: calling the troll out for his trollish opinion, or not pouring water on the grease fire.

My point is that everyone needs to take responsibility for themselves and for their own role in making things better or worse in the Duels sub. It's not just the troll who is at fault.

That requires a massive amount of will and foresight, because most of the time the beginning of these types of problems comes in the form of a direct response - often quoting - to something you post. And it's not immediately obvious (especially not to other readers) that the person is trolling, rather than say, for example simply confused or misunderstanding something. You can't ignore every post that disagrees with you, otherwise this forum dies a different death. (This is exacerbated when the person is brand new to the site, because you have 0 relationship with them, and don't for example, recognize their posting style - e.g.: some people are just grumpy/flippant/sarcastic/etc..., but you learn to deal with it after the've been around, because they aren't actually nasty or toxic).

I've seen it take pages before the person getting trolled realizes that it's going on. But once they know, it's again extremely hard for that poster to not go vigilante. See the thing is, it doesn't matter if the posts get deleted, because the damage is already done, they are angry, and often want to get internet revenge - whatever that is...

On the other hand, and this is a serious challenge for the mods involved, how do you parse the two. I have argued with other people on this site before. I've been involved in raging arguments in fact, but in many of those discussions, neither side was trolling. We were disagreeing, and there is nothing wrong with that, nothing at all, IMHO. (btw, that sometimes leads to further problems between the two parties, and again this is tough on the mods to resolve, because it can sometimes escalate - I can name examples of this, but I suspect not without violating the CoC).

Where I draw the line, is when the trolling party then goes and starts spamming every thread, or starts arguing on multiple topics with multiple people, just for the sake of starting problems.

I will only counter by pointing out that engaging the trolls has clearly been shown to be a losing strategy in it's own right.

I am not saying that moderation isn't needed. Clearly, it is. But moderation isn't always going to be perfect or timely. And when it isn't, there is no real advantage to be gained (and in fact, there is plenty of harm that can be done) but trying to take on the trolls.