/ agree with mjack

This started because of a tangent in a thread in the Off-topic forum. I had a PM-chat with DJ0045 and though the issue may be the biggest on the Duels forums, it is not solely on the Duels forums.
Also, Duels is simply a part of the greater whole that is NGA. So if something needs to be changed in terms of CoC, the Metaboard is the place for it because it affects the entire forum.


While I do not have the time to moderate Duels myself (Not that PbP is that busy, but I have other stuff ) I would not be opposed to more dedicated help in that area.

There's really not much to 'consider'.
Users have in the past been warned (and maybe banned) because they did not report a user, but tried moderating themselves by creating a semi-toxic environment.

This kind of stuff works three ways. The users making the posts, the user responding badly to the posts and the moderation team. And the way to get the 3rd player (us) involved is the report button.

Oh yes, this can definitely be a part of it. But I've seen the comment be used against legitimately new users as well. So you always have to be careful before concluding that someone is being like that.

@Hakeem:
I caught that as well. You guys do not have to worry about that.

"He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at her." There are exactly 3 people in this thread whose posting history I cannot with 100% confidence go through their posting history and dredge up some awful ****.

So please, stop posting in this thread if you don't have something constructive to add. We have enough about the specific poster, and it's not going anywhere. And I'm sure the mods can read it all. If you don't have a constructive suggestion (ban on sight doesn't count) go do something else instead of putting more fuel on the fire. I will do so as well.

@Dragon, DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS POST. Please. It will not be helping.

If I can be objective for a bit I have found that some valid on topic threads are started but at times can have a random "off topic" comment. Sometimes this just passes but at other times it details the thread. I mean we do have a valid off topic thread and even here you can go off topic on the current off topic with no harm done.

I feel it should be different in the on topic thread. It should pertain to aspects of the game. At times as well although there are an initial few on topic replies it can Peter out pretty quickly. That is a bit disheartening to be honest. We know we have a lack of new content and thus if you attempt to take an area to explore and generate some interest it again peters out leaving you wonder "why bother" and that to me is a more serious concern to be honest.

Sometimes also maybe posters are after a single answer (in their mind) and may receive an on topic reply but if it's not what they want to hear they will ignore it and re-iterate the question or worse still ask it in another thread.

I also would like to think if we are opening a thread it's directly related to the game itself or features of it and not a different product. The thread is to discuss duels after all but I am back to the point about maybe there is nothing to say until the new content arrives.

There are of course other events that happened that were unfortunate and maybe detrimental but some of us were trying to move on.

Don't derail topics with a random comment, even if it's your nature and you think it's expected of you. If there is an on topic thread try and participate and add to it, each and every on topic response generates goodwill overall.

Listen to the mods and above all leave ego at the doorstep. We are "supposed" to be all joined in a common purpose for the love of a particular game. Go off topic to shoot the breeze by all means but come with a question, query or contribution. Be big enough to listen to the responses even if it differs from your own perspective.

Jack: Are two of those people the mods? I'm curious.

This is a problem of good faith. To the onlooker, or just popping in, the new topics are not problematic at all, and are just something new to talk about. The problem is that these are not done in good faith. Almost every one of the spontaneous topics which are being alluded to, are taking an argument from another thread (or one that was moderated away), paraphrasing it, and pretending like its not a continuation of the previous argument.

Which, I believe would be called baiting, and is against the CoC. I've reported them a few times, but oh look, no action taken.

I'll be honest, I was considering almost this exact message at the end of my previous post. It's a good post.

I hate doing this, but...

I urge everyone to stop posting about specific users, but look for constructive solutions for the long term. Changes that need to be made in terms of moderation, CoC, that kind of stuff.

Also, props to SquiderDragon. That's a good post. It reminds me how I got into this. An off-topic discussion that got turned into a thread.

@DragonXXX:
I'm an '84 rat myself, so you won't get to me with those kind of comments

Jack, come now, if we are putting up our rocks one would be wise to move out of his glass house. I like the new you but I stopped frequenting the mothership largely due to dramas you were involved in

The only amicable solution I would pose would be to completely ignore these voices dissonant to your own and give the place a break until we have actual content to discuss

@Mortivore, I am a hypocrite and/or guilty of the thing I criticize in the past. You've got me. Bravo. Bravo. Here's your cookie . In fact, have another.

Does not mean I am wrong, or that you don't know I am right. So please. Stop it.



My suggestion, and my only helpful suggestion, is that "posting in bad faith" should be a moderated offense.

If someone can say "Here is X post. Here is why it was made in bad faith, using Y post as an example." and actually put up a good argument WITH EVIDENCE that an otherwise fine post was made in bad faith to intentionally antagonize/annoy or whatever other word you want to use, then that should be something the mods can talk to someone about.

Yeah it's weird how every time I say something like that everyone freaks out but no one ever has any actual evidence that this is a terrible way for boards to operate.

On the other hand, [gestures to this entire thread] [gestures to the long history of Kevin on the motherboard being Kevin] [gestures to the number of people who were let into this board despite being known problems that have since been permabanned]

Like you can believe whatever you want but you yourself said that you improved after Bun specifically singled you out and told you you were going to get banned if you didn't shape up. We also know that repeat offenders tend to never improve and get permabanned--that's why the freaking rules were just changed, after all, because statistically speaking the mobs could have banned a whole bunch of people two infractions earlier than they've been banning people.

Ultimately the report function shouldn't even be an issue here, nor should the Code of Conduct, because Scarlet or Zammm or someone should be closely associated enough with this community that they can see that individuals may not be technically breaking the Code of Conduct but they are the center of a maelstrom of problems, and there's valuable people in danger of leaving because of their actions.

But Miss Bun has been missing for, what, over a year now? The mods are perpetually understaffed, things get dealt with a week or more after they happen, and people are given free reign because no one's watching and actually curating the communities effectively.

This problem is just a reflection of a much larger and much more persistent crisis in leadership.

Again, though, you can believe whatever you want or call me unconstructive if you like, but you being uncomfortable with the reality of moderators moderating doesn't erase that reality.

It will be interesting to see what content is produced by the mentioned parties once we have BFZ. That, for me at least, should be the irrefutable evidence to satisfy anyone's position on our rickety fence.

Well this thread exploded quickly. Just reading through everything now; will comment properly once I've gotten through it all.

Can you please for the love of god temporarily lock it while you are at it? And clean the thing up so it can serve some purpose? In the current state it's not ever going to be useful because there are already too many things here that are directly counterproductive to what you want.

We would be better off starting a new thread with a less accusatory op to be honest.

I have no qualms with you, Jack. I only ask you to appreciate the irony. Whatever faith I hold is in defense of a place I once loved greatly, I'll not apologize for my feelings and my only interest here is routing the cancer consuming the duels sub.

If someone wants to make more posts like that, please pm me.

Cleanup is currently underway. I have confidence the thread will be slowing down on its own in the meantime.

Though I would ask everyone to please try to keep to broad, general discussion of policy and how to improve the forum rather than getting bogged down by arguing over exactly who is causing the problem.

I'm with Keeper on this one. I've very rarely been on a forum where I felt the mods are being too soft (let's not derail this by asking how hard I like my mods [See? I can still be funny!]) but...yeah. I think they are. Possibly because of understaffing. Or a thousand other things. Obvious trolls need to go. And if the mods are understaffed, make some new ones however we do it around here. Votes? Bribes? I'm not sure, I was never around when any of the current ones were named. Pick a couple of people who fix more problems than they start, and if they contribute too, sure, that's great. Mod 'em and let 'em have at it. I can name at least one person I'd elect if anyone on the staff needs a suggestion.

I mean just in this thread, we've got Mort saying he's very fringe, Hakeem giving up entirely, and I know that I'm strongly debating the value in being here if trolls are going to take over the joint. This is what a downward spiral looks like. Those of us from the mothership have seen it before. Nothing is worth losing the community for. This is, as far as I can tell, our last bastion. If this place goes down I do not think another will be made, and I am not enough of a fan of reddit's layout to move there permanently. The community has always meant a lot to me. Don't let it burn.

Yeah honestly I just waded through SEVEN YEARS of threads on the motherboard's Flavor and Storyline community and while in some ways we benefited from low moderation (after all, practically ANYTHING could be a COC violation on the Motherboard--it was just a bloody mess) in other ways it's just painfully obvious in retrospect that there were a few people who had no place in the community and were there just to cause problems.

Like I honest to god think that one poster in particular was singlehandedly responsible for pushing many of the old Storyline gurus out of the community after the Mending because he just relentlessly fanned the flames and made people feel like they had been abandoned by the storyline staff. If that one guy had just been banned, the Mending Flamewars might have been much less dire and the community could have recovered with a much stronger base. I mean when I think of all the information we lost because of people jumping ship it's appalling!

When you see it all laid out so clearly it's hard to deny that the low moderation on the Motherboard led to crisis. And it was only because the community created its own, I suppose, oath of conduct that we recovered, whereas the Art board lacked that kind of code of conduct and remained mired in some of the worst discourse I've ever seen.

Agreed. I'd invite anyone to take a gander at our subs front page and tell me you feel welcome. Rotten fingers cannot be saved they must be severed completely to halt any further infection.

I understand sniping at others gets us nowhere quickly but these long-winded monologues about the proper way to argue points serve only as back pats to curry favor with staff. These types of problems are what is devouring our sub, come on down but don't you dare ever post a deck or participate in actual MAGIC discussion