You better clean up that language

Hmmmm.... I wonder if 1 copy of a Embermaw Hellion could get some decent mileage out of the Twin Bolt, Ghirapur Æther Grid, Pia and Kiran Nalaar and Exquisite Firecraft? Having a 4/5 with trample doesn't seem bad either. With the potential flashback of Jace, Vryn's Prodigy it seems like it would finish off late games/ stale boards. I'm just wondering if it'll be win more though.

I may give it some test spins to see and will drop one Soulblade to try it.

elk

Well I still haven't hit the Embermaw Hellion to see if it's worth the slot. Having said that, any thoughts from the peanut gallery on this possible change? I'm curious if anyone's taken the deck for a spin (*cough* ten games *cough*)? I'd love to hear some testing feedback!



elk

No Hellion is terribul with thopters

Ugh....and why's that Barney?

You....don't like decent bodies on cards that are resilient to most removal in the format?
You....don't like potential synergies with a good portion of the deck?
You....don't like being a bit creative and need to stay in the confines of what's already been discovered and proven?

I still have yet to hit the card to see how it rolls and it may turn out to be 'win more' but it doesn't mean it's terrible with the theme.



elk

I just don't think there's enough red sources to warrant it. It doesn't support the theme of the deck of making a bunch of pumped colourless fliers going wide, and you don’t really want to be playing single five drops if you can help it since you’d sooner swarm and play several creatures or a creature and a burn spell

Also, I love you

I don't mind being creative but I don’t think this makes the deck better, us all

I think you do mind being creative.. or you'd brew more lists.. besides Golgari 1/3 Elves, 1/3 Removal, 1/3 Land. Part of being creative is experimenting.. and some experiments succeed, some fail. You admittedly, can't deal with the failure side, citing 'It's not fun.' You have to dare to be creative.. think outside the box, and your chastising of folks trying new cards/strategies all the way back to last year's game has only showed very, very narrow, inside-the-box, traditional, conservative thinking.

Hakeem gave you a shout out in his new video

Oh man that was such a brutal post for me to read until the very end which cheered me up.

Anyway understood, I won't give deck advice anymore unless asked directly. Deck advice is your turf, got it. Now go help elk, I have pr0n to watch

OMG Barney. I'm not telling you to stop posting geez!

I got on Hakeem about this yesterday. When someone asks for advice, just give them a little more than "That card is turrible." or "That's a bad idea bc I said so." Support your argument with some logic.. you're a smart man.. you know how to caress the English language with your tongue and fingers (on the keyboard). Sometimes the traditional, conservative line is right because the person's idea is too far fetched like Babs wanting Chandra in all her decks.. but sometimes there's an outside concept that may really bear fruit like Elk's idea to run Soulblade Djinn in Thopters. Creativity shouldn't be snuffed out as soon as something new is suggested.. it should be nurtured and its progress monitored like a child. You never know.. somebody might find something new and exciting.. and I think that's something we all want.

In re-reading my post and considering part of your post, I get the impression I came across a little crusty there. Sorry bout that.

What do you consider the red source count has to be before warranting the inclusion of the card? Also, why does the inclusion of the card have to be limited to it's potential upside? Yes this is an aggro shell but you can still consider finishers/bomb type threats (Look at 2015 where Baneslayer was in any deck that could support it including aggro). It really is a tough card to remove in most cases and helps deal with the downside to the deck/ archetype (sweepers, stalled boards and control getting to a mid-late game).

My thinking for testing the card was that if we eliminate the land from the deck, 1/4 of the deck can potentially gain benefit from the Hellion. If somehow Jace is actually active/flipped, that increases the uses out of the Hellion. The concern I have (and the reason for testing) is that the upside comes on line T6 and why I'm leery of it being win more (then again Soulblade comes online at the same time and it's been effective so far). If the card could be played T3 or T4 then it would have a lot more value.


Actually this has been a small pet peeve of mine for some time. I personally think we should go even farther than that to ACTUALLY testing the deck(s). We're such a small community that it often feels like we'd be something similar to a Magic team. They create decks and then the teammates test them and make vetted comments/recommendations until the team comes up with what they'll run at events/tournaments. Granted this isn't a competition we're practicing for but often felt the approach should be the same. The problem is that the majority of the time, most folks don't ever both to run the list. They just theorycraft their responses and that's that. I do get that sometimes a deck is a steamy pile and not worth the effort (or the deck/ archatype isn't appealing) but there's enough core folks around that could actually spend time with posted decks so that the feedback is actually vetted and useful (too often can you miss/overlook something or not see/feel the way it plays etc and those responses are typically missing from feedback). The effort to test is minimal and considering we all play the game for enjoyment, should actually be fun in the process too. Getting 2 or 3 responses from folks who played 5/10/15 games with a list would be a lot more constructive and go a lot farther to improving the deck than most typical replies now.


elk

Ya I like the way you look at the community sort of like a magic team that instead of just commenting on decks we've never played, we should test then suggest changes or criticize certain cards.

There are some cards that are objectively poor.. like Solemn Offering, Seige Mastadon, Coral Merfolk, Sky Eel School, Dreg Reaver, Bellows Lizard, Goblin Piker, Barrage Ogre, Axebane Stag, etc. but most cards (75-80% of the pool) are somewhat playable.

Axebane Stag?!?!?! What?!?!?!

Seriously though, this is where I was headed with the 'steamy pile' reference. You know some cards/decks are just a little too weak to spend any time on. Even with the pool being 75-80% playable it doesn't mean combinations of those cards together constitute a viable deck.

I just wish folks would take that extra step for the reasonable decks/ variations that they deem worth improving. Take your Temur deck for example. It got a lot of feedback/ interest but I'm curious how much it was actually spun (having said that, Hakeem tossed up a video on a variation of it so you're at least getting that testing out of it).


elk

I know that Annuj, CoExist and Ballz put some games into their versions, and their meta. I've personally put in about 50 games with it.. and my wife has put in 10ish. Hakeem put in two so far lol. I really like his addition of 3x Sigiled Starfish.. I'm testing a version now with no Elvish Visionaries and a singleton Fiery Conclusion. Working good so far! Conclusion will probably get replaced.. Hakeem likes Ravaging Blaze, but it takes 7 mana to make it do what Conclusion does.. and I don't feel we have enough instants/sorceries to trigger spell mastery.

I can't express enough how much I appreciate people taking the time to test it. I feel its a top tier deck.. right up there with Thopters and Gruul Monsters. It poops on Golgari Control bc it makes Languish, Fleshbag and Reave Soul so bad.

So I finally got to cast Embermaw Hellion and it was fine. Nothing super exciting though (although a 4dmg twin bolt won the game). I think I'll keep it as the 2nd Soulblade Djinn for now.

On a side note - since Beast had to talk trash about Axebane Stag, it's now my avatar! Us elks have to stick together!



elk

I still maintain that that deck was totes viable

Where's the guy who shot Bambi's mother when you need him?

Running for President.


Happy birthday, beastie!

This deck is good. Play it.. but only after you cut Aether Grid. That card is a waste of space. I would cut Grid and one Twin Bolt for two Fiery Conclusion. Other than that.. I wouldn't change a thing. I don't like Willbreaker here bc without Alchemists Vial, there's not enough target effects. This is a beat down deck.

Thanks for the testing Beast! On a personal note, I got a 5 game report in a PM from Beast giving his feedback which was greatly appreciated. Very kind of ya!

The only reason I didn't go for things like Fiery Conclusion or Fiery Impulse or Reclusive Artificer etc is that they are creature only targets. I was trying to stay as flexible as I could allowing the burn/removal to be directed to where it needed to be (I didn't want cards in hand waiting for targets).

Ghirapur Æther Grid is definitely on the bubble. It's purpose basically contradicts the game plan here as it's more for stalled boards or for increases in damage with the other burn spells (so Exquisite Firecraft plus Grid is my Fiery Conclusion wannabe). It's most often a cheap plink using cards that have summoning sickness (the deck is all about the plinks!) but it does have the downside of tapping attackers/blockers too. I think for the time being I'll keep it but will test other ideas in that slot (maybe something like a Ravaging Blaze type finisher)

Again, thanks for the spins. Much appreciated.


elk