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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:42 am 
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Lol, that's better

And let's get rid of those divine favours and put Grasps instead. Is there enough graveyard stuff going on for those marauders to get going ?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:22 pm 
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Fleshbag Marauder and Suppression Bonds really do not play well together, either.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:01 pm 
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I run Suppression Bonds for flipped planeswalkers and enchantments like EvoLeap and Molten Vortex

Suppression Bonds gets along well with Tragic Arrogance tho :)


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:30 am 
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Fleshbag with Bonds is a nonbo imo.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:33 am 
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I wouldn't run fleshbag with suppresion bonds. With 4x Bone slinters you need more sacrifice targets, Myrs aren't enough.

Maybe consider Deadbridge Shamans, they're great blockers and a good sac target, but they suck vs twin bolt.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 11:28 pm 
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Deck: White Knights

Creatures: 23
1 Kytheon, Hero of Akros
3 Elite Vanguard
2 Knight of the White Orchid
3 Consul's Lieutenant
4 Topan Freeblade
2 Deadbridge Shaman
3 Blood-Cursed Knight
1 Archangel of Tithes
2 Kytheon's Irregulars
2 Gilt-Leaf Winnower

Other Spells: 14
3 Grasp of the Hieromancer
4 Nimbus Wings
2 Reprisal
2 Celestial Flare
3 Reave Soul

Lands: 23
12 Plains
4 Swamp
2 Isolated Chapel
2 Orzhov Guildgate
3 Evolving Wilds

Theory: Mono w. splashed for some choice removal and scary bombs, this deck is the closest thing you can get to aggro in black and white given the current cards in the game. Playing very much like a mono colored deck, "White Knights" uses auras that either enable you to connect with evasive single creatures with either lifelink or vigilance, or can allow you to tap down key blockers so your anthem'd paladins can smash into your opponent's face as a team. The key idea of being able to go either wide or stack on a single creature offers flexibility to a strategy who's linearity normally leads to easy counters. This allows the pilot to change their tactics depending on the colors they are facing, and whether or not the opponent is playing mass or single target removal. Furthermore, the presence of 1-drops and the little lifegain wedged in gives the user superior racing capabilities compared to other aggro decks such as RDW and G/U Midrange when combined with the deck's consistent evasive auras. Lastly, if you have OCD, you can rest assured since this deck has exactly 20 different cards, meaning that you can scroll through the list in perfect groups of 5!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:17 am 
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That's not a bad list.

The deck needs some way to deal with Evolutionary Leap though, otherwise it will lose to it 80% of the time (same for Thopter Spy Network to a lesser extent) Suppression Bonds or Angelic Edict might have to get dialed up.

I had to find a way to squeeze some draw into my list (which is moderately similar to yours). I ended up making some tough cuts to fit in 4x Bitter Revelation.. but it was totally, totally worth it.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 6:46 am 
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In my experience, evo leap is a non-issue, but thopters can be problematic from time to time, if you draw extremely poorly, otherwise you easily win that race (aggro's goal is to race, not to grind). The only match-up that really works against you is G/B Elves, but as there is no sideboard this game, I don't bother thinking too hard about hard counters, rather focus on winning the majority of games by playing exactly as an aggro deck should. Specifically, Bitter Rev is a slow card and has no purpose in an aggro deck, where card advantage is never a concern. You might be able to make a case for the 3 CMC enchant removal, but only if you find yourself fighting pretty much thopters and enchantment based deck all the time and you are losing these matches due to a specific enchantment that prevents you from racing effectively. For basically every other match-up, it's negligible as your goal should be a quick victory with lots of early pressure, not a drawn out game. Lastly, Angelic Edict is a 5 CMC spell that doesn't help you most of the time, regardless of how it might look on paper, since you will almost always have auras that give you the required evasion to connect with your opponent's life total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:38 am 
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I don't feel Orzhov has the speed to be a true, fast racing aggro deck. I'd be in Boros if that was my goal.. with more aggressive creatures/auras and burn based removal that can goto the face. As for Bitter Revelation, it's your out to being swept as well. Aggro decks roll over to sweepers, and you don't have any way to quickly rebuild post-sweeper. But whatever.. if you like it, you like it. I feel what Orzhov brings to the table is superior removal with resiliency through lifegain. It plays the midrange game better than Boros/Azorious.. that's why I went a little slower with my build. Kothophed is an all star in my list.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:54 am 
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Fair enough, but if you were] to make an aggro deck, then I think mine would be pretty optimal.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:06 am 
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Seems like Archangel will be tough to cast. I think you're undervaluing Hixus, i would switch a Winnower with him.

I think you could use a couple copies of that enchantment fetching white dude. You could also use a couple of Suppression Bonds as well. Not really understanding Deadbridge Shaman here, especially that you're not playing any bone splinters. No Languish either which I guess makes sense. I sure hate Reprisal here.

...no fleshbags or Liliana either...

when you're trying combo stuff like enchantments, you need some draw. Maybe find room for Read them Bones


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 10:49 am 
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Seems like Archangel will be tough to cast. I think you're undervaluing Hixus, i would switch a Winnower with him.

I think you could use a couple copies of that enchantment fetching white dude. You could also use a couple of Suppression Bonds as well. Not really understanding Deadbridge Shaman here, especially that you're not playing any bone splinters. No Languish either which I guess makes sense. I sure hate Reprisal here.

...no fleshbags or Liliana either...

when you're trying combo stuff like enchantments, you need some draw. Maybe find room for Read them Bones

Assuming you're talking about White Knights, there are 19 W sources and 2 KotWO so it's very easy to get it on turn 4, although my turn 4 is usually best used to enchant, play 2 creatures, or drop Irregulars.

The 3 CMC slot is the oddest part for me; the Deadbridge Shamans were in the current build because they deal better with other aggro/midrange decks than Fleshbags, which were originally in the list. That is the one place where variety is up to the user. Languish is bad because the majority of the time you'd be wiping more of your own creatures than your opponents, and then get wrecked when they drop a high CMC bomb. Liliana is similar; run it in that slot if you want, maybe with a complementary Fleshbag, if that suits your fancy.

You need reprisals; if you play my build without them, you'll quickly understand why.

I guess you do have a valid point with Hixus, though; I might try out dropping 1 (or both) Winnower for that. But if I do, then I have a different problem in the forms of Disciple of the Ring and Soulblade Jinn, neither of whom need to declare attacks in order to provide value (although, I should mention that these two are lesser concerns, due to rarities and their seeing little play).

Read the Bones could go in the 3 CMC slot in place of Deadbridges (I will test it out), especially since it makes use of the lifegain. However, in principle, if it doesn't improve the deck much if at all, then these should be avoided, as the turn you play them should be used advancing your board or buffing creatures (or tapping with Irregulars).

I hope I addressed all your concerns. I will report again after I test the aforementioned changes (and invite you to test the deck as well). Keeping in mind that this is aggro, not midrange or combo; we gotta turn em sideways or get out!

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:31 pm 
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the only concern you didn't address was one that solves your 3-cost problem. You could play Heliod's Pilgrim x2! I think that could help out a whole bunch.

Good point about your deck being aggro and not midrange. I think many of my suggestions were geared to a Midrange build.

Then again, if I was doing an aggro white deck, I'd pair it with Red instead of Black.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:45 pm 
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Been attempting to build a Orzhov control deck recently (because i'm tired of Gaia's Revenge beating non white control decks) Here's where i've ended up:

2 drops
4x Perilous Myr
3x Reave Soul
4x Celestial Flare
2x Shadows of the Past

3 drops
Lilianna, Heretical Healer
3x Fleshbag Maurauder
4x Read the bones

4 drops
1x Erebos's Titan
2x Languish

5 drops
3xCruel revival
2x Angelic Edict
2x Necromantic Summons
2x Tragic Arrogance

6+
2x Kothophed, Soul Hoarder

Lands:
9x Plains
10x Swamps
4x Orzhov's Guildgates
2 Isolated Chapel

So far the decks been doing a lot better then i expected, having the 4 boardwipes is great, and you can usually starve your opponent out fairly easily, the biggest issue i've been having is the relatively few win cons (Kothoped is putting in a lot of work for a card i haven't really liked so far, opinion is changing of him.)
Not sure how to change that though, white offers nothing much and black only really has the priests, which i'm not a big fan of because i don't think this deck needs more lifeloss, Shadows has actually been really good in that department, won a surprising amount of games just by activated shadows a couple of times a turn for a decent clock. Thoughts?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:47 pm 
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make it abzan use GR to win


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:55 pm 
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The deck actually used to be abzan, i ended up cutting green because it was just too much strain on the mana, even with the vines, and was just way too inconsistent. Sure you get the revenge and nissa but you basically lose Flare's, Titan and your pride for using GR... The deck is meant to beat the darkside, not join it!

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:02 pm 
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fair point

um... idk both colors are kinda lacking in bombs...


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:05 pm 
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You know which colors aren't lacking in bombs?? Red, white and blue baby!!! Whoooooo!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:08 pm 
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mmm no blue and white are both missing big minions I doubt jeskai would work


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:10 pm 
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Anyway your country knows this better than anybody


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