Wait...whoa....what...????




elk

OK, I've tried it a few games...so far, Thopter Engineer is underperforming. The haste is nice, but there isn't enough "Oomph" behind the hasted thopters to make it worth the slot.

For guidance, what I am using:

4 Gatecreeper Vine
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Perilous Myr
2 EvoLeap
3 Whirler Rouge
2 Naalar Parents
3 Bounding Krasis
2 Exquisite Firecraft
2 Outland Colossus
2 Gaea's Revenge
1 Woodland Bellower
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Nissa
4 Twin Bolt

25 lands

@Kryder

The Thopter Engineers were there because I wanted another good stabilizer at the 3 drop spot since my only two drop creature was Gatecreeper Vine. If you've got more early bodies, you don't need Engineer. How is the list performing for you? Winning often?

I played a few more games and decided to make a few changes. The biggest changes are designed to give the deck more board presence on the early turns.

Out:
Frost Lynx - Doesn't feel better than Whirling Rogue since it has a really weak body and can't chump block as well. Mostly just 1 for 1s rather than 2 for 1. Plus, I rather be playing Nissa's Pilgrimage on turn 3.
Zendikar Incarnate - Whirling Rogue just feels a lot better even though the Incarnate can potentially be amazing with Chandra's Ignition.

In:
Nissa's Pilgrimage - Better chances of Turn 4 four/five mana creature, Turn 5 Chandra's Ignition or Displacement Wave since this is what this deck is awesome at. I can't really afford to run a ton of copies because this I don't want to be flooded on green mana
Whirling Rogue - For some reason this card is just too good for stats. 4 mana for 3 creatures with combined stat 4/4 is just too good to pass up and it also can block flyers which this deck is really weak to. It's anti syngery with Displacement Wave but the thopter tokens mostly just sacrifice themselves as chump blockers to perserve my life total so the big Displacement Wave won't be that bad.
Elvish Visionary - I really like more chump blockers vs aggro and drawing cards mean more chances of drawing board sweepers.


""

Add
1 Mountain
7 Forest

AppleGate,

Hey bro, so far the thing I notice about your deck is it has no real focus. 1 Frost Lynx, 2 Disperse, 1 Harbinger of Tides, 2 Elvish Visionary...you'd do better, IMO, to drop these odd numbers and max out on some of them. I'd suggest the following if you went your route:

1 Nissa
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Gatecreeper Vine
4 Disperse
3 Telling Time
3 Bounding Krasis
3 Whirler Rogue
2 Pia and Kiran Naalar
2 Chandra's Ignition
2 Outland Colossus
2 Gaea's Revenge
1 Woodland Bellower
1 Reclamation Sage
3 Zendikar Incarnate

25 land of your choice

So far, S'ok...I like the reach Twin Bolt gives. I'll give it 10 games as I can and pass the info up in the appropriate thread, if I'm still around.

I really like the idea of having in Pia and Kiran Naalar because they work pretty well with Whirling Rogues and offer a good way to get rid of the thopter tokens before a Displacement Wave. I do really want to keep Displacement Waves since it's just too fun to imagine a giant tidal wave sweeping everything away while the big creatures swing for victory.

Thanks for the good tips!

After playing my Temur list some more I've come to the conclusion that there needs to be at least two copies of Zendikar Incarnate in there because without more fatties, there's nothing for Whirler Rogue to target except Outland Colossus and Woodland Bellower.

might as well include the chandra's ignition or the combo at that point

Yeah.. it was in there before but I rarely wanted to wreck my board by casting it. I'm putting out a lot of Thopters, Krasises (Krasi?) and Evoleap food. Add in the fact that I can't target Gaea, that only leaves Incarnate and Bellower as strong targets, but then I'm killing whatever I pulled with Bellower.. it's an ok target on Krasis vs aggro. It's just not as great a fit here as it is in Gruul.. who has more quality fat to Ignite.

The point of the deck was to try and build unanswerable boards.. and Ignition kinda goes against that.

Built this deck based on Hakeem and Megabeast's Temur concept. I'm at 22-2 so far. This thing handles it all. Golgari Control, Dimir Control, Izzet Thopters, Red Aggro, Azorius soldiers, mono-white - the only two losses so far are from bad starting hands that I didn't mulligan properly, so sort of my fault. Here's the list so far:
4 x Perilous Myr
4 x Gatecreeper Vine
4 x Elvish Visionary
2 x Evolutionary Leap
1 x Ravaging Blaze
4 x Twin Bolt

3 x Thopter Engineer
3 x Bounding Krasis
2 x Exquisite Firecraft

3 x Whirler Rogue
2 x Pia and Kiran Nalaar

2 x Outland Colossus

2 x Gaea's Revenge

Land:

2 x Island
2 x Mountain
7 x Forest
2 x Rootbound Crag
2 x Hinterland Harbor
2 x Gruul Guildgate
1 x Izzet Guildgate
2 x Simic Guildgate
4 x Evolving Wilds


Thoughts so far...just so capable of handling everything from early game threats to strong boards late game. The few matches that have been close, I've been a little nervous about the inability to deal with opponent's threats, but by the end of the match, they turn out to be insignificant because you'll have so many chump blockers. Evo Leap is nice and certainly takes the deck into the stratosphere, but it's by no means is it the only wincon.

What I love most about the deck is there's not a single dead draw. Ever. So much value in each card it's ridiculous.

The win rate might be partially because Temur is so uncommon in the meta, that no one really expects to see a few rounds of Thopters, followed up with an Outland Colossus or Gaea's Revenge.

I'm debating whether or not to find room for 2 x Thopter Spy Network for the extra card draw and thopters. The only spot I can think to replace them with would be 2 x Twin Bolt. But Twin Bolt deals with the early threats so well, and sometimes provides the to the face damage to clinch the match.

In terms of land...I'd like to work in at least 2x Foundry of the Consuls and at least 1x Rogue's Passage, but I'm not sure what to remove in their place. 1 Forest, 1 Simic, 1 Gruul? Could use a bit of help finding room here.

Thanks Hakeem and Megabeast for the inspiration, this deck is the most fun I've had since this game was released.

don't bother trying to fit foundry/passage in

brown lands by very nature of being brown won't fit in a shard/wedge deck

Yay I made someone happy! Glad you like it Ballz. Hakeem is happy too.. even though he never played the deck!!

If I were you, I'd be looking to fit in Reclamation Sage and Woodland Bellower. Both cards have been great.. and give you answers to Sphinx Tutelage. That matchup is currently the only weakness of the deck.. it makes me wanna fit in a second Sage.. bc Tutelage decks are kinda common. I'd be looking to cut some Twin Bolts or two drops to fit them in.

+ bellower into krasis is pure bliss. such a strong play

Why are you guys so set on Bounding Krasis? I get it that it's a nice card for tempo, but doesn't seem to bring anything to the table in a Temur thopters deck.

other then it being one of the best cards in our format?

I don't mean that it's bad or that you're wrong in playing it. It also doesn't mean, that it's the best possible choice in this particular deck. You have a lot of good options like Zendikar Incarnate which is a great Whirler Rouge target.

It's been pretty good at ambushing early aggression. Turn 2 Gatecreeper or Visionary, turn 3 leave open mana and take out an attacker when they declare. What else would you propose in that spot? Ghirapur Gearcrafter is pretty underwhelming, Jhessian Thief will never get through to draw cards and we have very few spells to trigger prowess, Valeran Wardens doesn't make sense, Chief of the Foundry is only good with a 8 cards in the list. I get that it has no real synergy with the deck.. but the whole deck doesn't have much synergy.. it's pretty much a goodstuff deck.

Have you played the list? I'd really like your feedback, I respect your opinion greatly.

After playing the list more.. 2x Zendikar Incarnate is in my final list for sure.. mainly bc there weren't enough Whirler Rogue targets.

Cool suggestions. I'm going to try both: Woodland Bellower and Reclamation Sage in place of 1 x twin bolt and 1 x Perilous Myr, and 2x Zendikar Incarnate in exchange for 2x Gaea's Revenge.

My biggest concern is now the stompy fat can be languished, along with the rest of the board (except Colossus).