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Auditor, pray tell your verdict:
Exaltation. Truly a classic worthy of the ages. (Yea) 57%  57%  [ 4 ]
Dissolution. Would that I could strike it from the annals of memory. (Nay) 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Transmutation. There is yet gold glinting in the dross. (NAI) 14%  14%  [ 1 ]
Separation. I have no place to speak of such matters. (Abstain) 29%  29%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 7
Total voters : 7
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:01 pm 
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Planetaria (Excerpt)
by chinkeeyong
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This is an excerpt from a famous Solphosian opera, Planetaria. It was written by the librettist and composer Tristitas approximately a century prior to the present time, and revolves around the semi-mythical downfall of the Corindian Empire. Today it is considered one of the great classics of the Sophist canon.

Scenes I and II of Act I of Planetaria are presented here.

Spoiler

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Last edited by chinkeeyong on Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:20 am 
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Yea from I?

I got part-way into Scene II, and I realized that I have no basis by which to judge this. I have never seen an opera so I don't know what the usual is, I'm tone deaf so I can't tell what kind of tempo or music it's supposed to have, and as a result I just... don't know what to make of it. I think we should have something like this in our Archive, though. It's something we don't really have, so it pushes our boundaries, and while I'm not entirely sure what's going on inside it, it's probably a good bit of insight into the world and culture of Solphos, as well.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:17 am 
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ugh I have to actually read this? PASS.

...ok fine.

:duel:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:35 am 
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in the first recitative you have the elements each sing separately, but they're just going from lowest voice to highest, I think it'd be more interesting if it bounced around a bit instead of being a straight elevator progression. maybe Water-Earth-Fire-Air? I also think the "you will be unraveled" line would be better suited to a lower voice, either Earth or Fire, especially coming right after Air's coloratura exultation. "Perhaps I cannot, but they can." feels kind of weak after all the huge dramatic flourishes of the dialogue to that point, which is unfortunate because it's a big point dramatically. the "we heed your call... to safeguard all" bit feels like it'd be a bit too spaced out to really be clear, although that depends if the "Gloria... Gloria..." part is supposed to be between or behind the main lines, I'm not sure what the parentheses denote. in Sulfur's verse all the lines are basically iambic (some with missing syllables) but I can't iambically parse "Nor worldly bindings untether." Mercury seems to add in a few trisyllabic feet in ways that don't really seem right to me. Natron's is fully parseable in iambic meter.

those are all fairly minor things. I'd love to see some or all of them fixed but I don't think minor metric whining and subjective voice arrangement concerns are enough to stop me voting yes.

also woah I didn't realize this was an opera within an opera Solphos rolls deep.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:14 am 
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The order in which the elements speak is symbolically relevant, so I'm keeping it.

I don't think "Perhaps I cannot, but they can" reads as weak.

"You will be unraveled" can be sung by Fire. If this is voted in, I'll ask for that change.

Parentheses indicate that a line is "out of the spotlight," like faint chanting in the background.

The elements are not intended to sing with strict meter. My thoughts were to have each one sing a different flourish of the same basic melody.

Thanks for reading and voting!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:05 am 
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The order in which the elements speak is symbolically relevant, so I'm keeping it.
fair enough. I'm looking at this as a composer/arranger rather than a storyteller, and if the story needs them in that order then they should be in that order. just trying to make my job easier.

I don't think "Perhaps I cannot, but they can" reads as weak.
to be clear, I mean weak in terms of dialogue, not character portrayal. I don't think it makes the Hierophant appear weak, I just think there could be a better line there, something more in line with the general dramatic tone of the piece. if you want to stick with it that's fine, it certainly won't change my vote, but I feel like you could come up with something better.

:duel:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:07 am 
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Something like "You presume that I stand alone"?

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Solphos: Solphos | Fool's Gold | Planeswalker's Guide | The Guiding Light | The Weight of a Soul
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:23 am 
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Something like "You presume that I stand alone"?

yeah, I like that better. that feels more like how the characters have been talking up to that point.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:10 am 
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Ok, edited the submission accordingly.

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Solphos: Solphos | Fool's Gold | Planeswalker's Guide | The Guiding Light | The Weight of a Soul
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:31 pm 
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This is a very interesting piece. It is, as Luna mentioned, very different from anything else we have going on, which is a good thing, but it does make judging its merit much more difficult.

I will say that this is largely not my personal taste. I've never been fond of heavy-handed symbolism like the personified elements here, but that's really just personal taste, and nothing something on which I would judge the piece as a whole.

Basically, my main concern here is the over-arching implications of this piece. First of all, I don't think we can, strictly speaking, read this as a characterization of Clade because of the nature of the Opera and dramatizing any events that might have happened. However, the implication of this piece is that Clade has, at some point in the past, been to Solphos, and presumably destroyed (or forested, anyway) large swaths of it. However, I don't get the sense from the Solphos dossier (at least from my memory, let me specify) that that's actually the case.

The other issue I have is that Death seems to only represent Clade insofar as Clade's name is hooked to the thread's title. Nothing in this piece screams "Clade" to me. In fact, had Clade's name not been in brackets in the thread's title. I would have guess Death was Vasilias, or some other equally devastating oldwalker.

So, because our understanding of this text is predicated on meta-knowledge that we don't have in the text, I'm going to have to vote NAI on this one, and ask that either Clade's tag be removed, or that something is altered in-text to find a way to make it clear to a reader from textual evidence that this is Clade.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:03 pm 
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Speaking just for myself, I really like this piece. The really formal, operatic quality feels right for the setting, and I just have a lot of fun imagining this as a really elaborately-staged production.

I think Raven's concern about Clade is a good one, but I guess that it just doesn't bother me, personally. Given that, if memory serves, Ruwin is okay with Clade here, then I'm happy to just chalk up his involvement as a reference to some episode from the history of Solphos that we just aren't familiar with yet.

Anyway, I'm happy to give this one my "yea."

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:26 am 
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I think it is in my best interest to abstain.
I'm mildly familiar with Opera in terms of enjoying it, but to its actual construction, I couldn't really tell you much, so I feel fairly woefully unqualified to offer much on that end.
But secondarily is that I sort of share the opinion Raven holds regarding Clade, but not strongly enough to oppose its entry based on that.

Given those factors, I'm just bowing out for safety sake.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:55 am 
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Well, I suppose I should weigh in on this matter instead of just ninja-voting. (Which is all I have time/energy for nowadays, sorry about that friends.)

Anyway, I try to do my best to skim through the material that is put up AS it is put up. Sometimes I don't get around to commenting and sometimes I do. I always try to make it a point to comment on things that involve my characters because I want whoever worked on it to know that I appreciate it. It's very flattering, and this is no exception. I commented on the main thread about all that, so right now I'm just giving context.

Now, for me, it's sort of hard to not simply jump on board with anything that involves my stuff. I love my stuff. I put a lot of work into my stuff. Clade specifically was really cool because I dreamed him up (literally) over night and wrote about him in the early hours of the next morning before going to work. I think he's got a lot of potential for "ancient threat" that has actually already been capitalized on, most notably by Tevish.

I'm rambling, but my point is that I can't really approach this objectively, and I'm not really planning on it. This is clearly a dramatization of events - events that might not even have happened - which actually I find FAR more interesting. I don't think, necessarily, that just because this play was written ON Solphos, about Solphos, that Clade needs to have visited there...

I mean, isn't it just as likely that whoever wrote the Opera was a planeswalker as well? Maybe they ran afoul of Clade. Maybe they were inspired by the legends of a hulking, hunchbacked monstrosity that represented death on other planes. Clade - as I believe Keeper pointed out when I first submitted him - is less of a person and more of a force of nature. It would make sense that, when talked about in works of fiction or myths, that he would be mis-characterized. People see different things in the same storm, after all.

And, maybe, CKY just wanted Clade to be in the Opera. I think at this point the idea of a large, hulking form that represents death is pretty synonymous with Clade, despite his lack of, uh, screen time. I'm not against it, is what I'm saying. So, yes, while Death could probably be any other powerful and devastating oldwalker, the fact that CKY wanted to make it clear outside of the work that Death was, in fact, Clade, does not bother me.

Though maybe he could smash a few more things. That's usually frowned upon in polite theater, though. ;)

Anyway, I'm voting Yea, if that wasn't obvious. I think this deserves a place in the archives.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:45 pm 
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Hm, I really like this piece a lot but I share the reservations of Raven and Barinellos... It does feel like the introduction of a major figure to the plane's history without actually having that impact show up.

But maybe clarification will help. This comes at the end of the Corindian period, correct? This is after the empire falls and during the rise of chymia magna? What exactly is the timeline that we're looking at here?

Also, you mention an "Interloper King"... is that meant to refer to Death/Clade or does that refer to another, different Planeswalker figure from this period?

This is an extremely exciting project and I do want to emphasize that I'm really into what you're doing here--I can picture it all quite vividly, the music swelling as Clade and the Hierophant trade challenges, the circling of the various elements and symbols... I just want to have a better understanding of what this does to our canon and the timeline and so on, if that makes sense.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 9:31 pm 
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Conventional wisdom holds that the Empire's collapse resulted from a combination of factors like banditry and mass slaughters, leading to the breakdown of infrastructure and governmental institutions. The Academiae survived because of their autonomy, political neutrality, and devotion to the rational ideal.

This opera is a dramatization of those events. The characters in the play are generally believed to be personifications of different forces and influences of the time period. It's not possible that a hunchbacked bogeyman could just descend from the sky and kill off the citizenry of Kardiapolis.

Or is it???

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Solphos: Solphos | Fool's Gold | Planeswalker's Guide | The Guiding Light | The Weight of a Soul
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:07 pm 
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So, not to be a stickler, but what exactly is the timeframe for this taking place, in years? It seems like the answer is "quite a few" (and I don't think I need a definitive number here, but a ballpark like roughly 3 millenia is what I'm going for)

What I'm gathering from the information in the guide is that the actions of the chymia magna after this period could have wiped out whatever trace of Clade remained on the plane--the Dark Lands serve as stark evidence of this.

It still feels a little weird to me that we'd have Clade as a marker in the title when you seem to want to keep things very ambiguous... I mean, it's a cool connection, but it also comes off I think like a definite statement of involvement when you put it forth like that. Does that make sense? I feel like it actually detracts from the ambiguity here, which I honestly quite like.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:01 pm 
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This happened over a span of around fifty years, according to the current worldview. Unfortunately, a lot of records have been lost over the years, and the Dark Lands have taken their toll on whatever ruins remain outside the periochs. An estimation is more guesswork than anything else.

I'm open to removing the Clade marker. I see at least two of you who would like the work better without it. Is there any objection to taking the marker away?

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YMtC: My Deck of Many Things | NGA Masters | 2 | 3 | Roses of Paliano | Duel Decks: War of the Wheel | Jakkard: Wild Cards | From Maral's Vault | Taramir: The Dark Tide
Solphos: Solphos | Fool's Gold | Planeswalker's Guide | The Guiding Light | The Weight of a Soul
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:45 am 
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Now, for me, it's sort of hard to not simply jump on board with anything that involves my stuff. I love my stuff. I put a lot of work into my stuff.

this is really weird to me. I mean, I love my stuff too. I put a lot of work into my stuff too. and that's why I get really nervous when anyone else touches it. because there are just so many things going on that are important to me. even when CKY suggested the watermarks my initial reaction was "THIS WILL NEVER WORK". (it worked. like, really well. but only because CKY did a lot of source study to nail the styles.) and don't even get me started on the lighting debate for Foulmouthed Kneecapper. (which is a fun experience that Mystic now gets to go through since they've decided to do Grayland Savant...)

:duel:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:47 am 
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razorborne wrote:
Now, for me, it's sort of hard to not simply jump on board with anything that involves my stuff. I love my stuff. I put a lot of work into my stuff.

this is really weird to me. I mean, I love my stuff too. I put a lot of work into my stuff too. and that's why I get really nervous when anyone else touches it. because there are just so many things going on that are important to me. even when CKY suggested the watermarks my initial reaction was "THIS WILL NEVER WORK". (it worked. like, really well. but only because CKY did a lot of source study to nail the styles.) and don't even get me started on the lighting debate for Foulmouthed Kneecapper. (which is a fun experience that Mystic now gets to go through since they've decided to do Grayland Savant...)

:duel:

Speaking for myself, I love it when people are interested in using my stuff (as you've seen.) Naturally, I want at least a small degree of input about it, because my stuff is important to me, too, but other people invariably see things that I don't. As long as they are in the hands of a competent mind (which we have in spades here in the M:EM) I find it a fascinating experience.

I'm open to removing the Clade marker. I see at least two of you who would like the work better without it. Is there any objection to taking the marker away?

CKY, it looks as though this was accepted as is, so I don't think you need to worry about it.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:28 am 
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Speaking for myself, I love it when people are interested in using my stuff (as you've seen.) Naturally, I want at least a small degree of input about it, because my stuff is important to me, too, but other people invariably see things that I don't. As long as they are in the hands of a competent mind (which we have in spades here in the M:EM) I find it a fascinating experience.

That's one of the things which I find so exciting about working with other M:EMbers. I love to see how other people experience and relate to my characters, because, inevitably, they see things that I don't see, and that can be almost revelatory.

And I love that they write those characters a little differently, too -- that they bring their own perspective and style to the work. Because that means they're creating something that I couldn't create myself. And that's an amazing kind of opportunity. It feels like getting a gift. :)

I mean, Raven writes Jackie a little differently from the way I do. And Ruwin writes Jackie a little differently from the way I do. But I love those differences. I like getting to see Jackie from those different angles. Because they highlight different aspects of her personality. And I think that she ends up feeling fuller as a result.

Similarly, I hope that, when I'm writing for, say, Nasperge, or Aloise, or Alessa, I'm not just creating a carbon copy of what Raven or Ruwin or Barinellos would have done in the same circumstances. I hope that I'm being respectful to those characters, and that I'm representing them honestly, and fairly, and in a way that their creators are happy with. (Because, I mean, I wouldn't do it otherwise! I'm never going to use another author's character unless they are completely okay with how it comes out.) But I also hope that, maybe, I'm also hearing or seeing or discovering something in that character that feels new, and exciting.

That's what I aspire to do, anyway.

But that's just my two off-topic cents.

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