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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:06 am 
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DaRkStAr wrote:
What did you cut to get in 4x Suppression Bonds besides 2x Claustrophobia?

consul's lieutenant


Why Lieutenant instead of Knight of the White Orchid? I think Lieutenant is a vastly superior card.. the only weakness is to Twin Bolt.

I don't know it anymore :D
But i will reconsider it, thanks :)


I also think you should consider anointer of champions over elite vanguard darkstar

I never played with anointer of champions is it really that worth?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:08 am 
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yeah totally it buffs your first strikers and if you have will breaker out you can just steal any creature that attacks you


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:57 am 
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There's too much twinbolt imo. I prefer the knife package. Bit more clunky but OMG the plays !


I've stolen an entire elf board today,swinging in each turn with a 4/2 first strike and stealing his lords, also won a game of a renowned bloodlusted gloryseeker. Finished another RDW racing me with a knife to the dome. It's delicious.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:03 am 
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my build has both the knife package and the anointers :p I took out the 4 topan freeblade for 2 relic seeker and 2 throwing knife


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:20 am 
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I also think you should consider anointer of champions over elite vanguard darkstar


I think Anointer is a pretty cool idea.. but there are games where Vanguard gets in like 6-8 damage vs the durdle decks as a turn 1 play.

Believe it or not, the worst performing creature in the deck is Topan Freeblade. Without Nimbus Wings, it's hard to really get a bunch of value out of it.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:22 am 
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I also think you should consider anointer of champions over elite vanguard darkstar


I think Anointer is a pretty cool idea.. but there are games where Vanguard gets in like 6-8 damage vs the durdle decks as a turn 1 play.

Believe it or not, the worst performing creature in the deck is Topan Freeblade. Without Nimbus Wings, it's hard to really get a bunch of value out of it.

like I said earlier I did cut the topans for the knife package,

other changes I did were +3 anchor to the aether -3 claustrophobia and -1 island +1 plain iirc


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:26 am 
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I think Anchor flat out sucks. I know a lot of people here are high on it.. but I feel it underperformed for me. I got much better mileage out of Celestial Flare and Suppression Bonds. Flare is an underrated card IMO. I might give the knife package a try.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:36 am 
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I'll try flare but this is a tempo deck I don't know how often it'll matter


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:38 am 
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Flare is a good combat trick, but the anchor is logical in this deck.

Turn 5 going anchor the blocker + a 2 drop is a game winning move VERY often. You caused a huge tempo swing, had card selection, and your opponent's options are restricted. It's just crushingly hard to come back from that in a race.

Flare that turn does NOT get the damage through, and the opponent draws a new card to improve his situation.

Don't think of it as removal; think of it as winning a turn earlier :p


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:52 am 
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I get that Anchor is logical, but when I ran it, it was just an overcosted, sorcery speed Disperse. I think you guys severely overvalue the draw denial aspect of the card.. and I also feel you guys shrug off the sorcery speed aspect, but I see it as a huge downside.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:56 am 
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well really it's an over valued sorcery speed voyage's end but semantics (and what is disperse but an overpriced unsummon (yes yes but disperse can target more then just creatures, well that doesn't matter for a tempo deck now does it?))

idk in my head the decks which attack against this deck go to wide for flare to matter (yes yes gaea's revenge but I don't much care about playing around that unless it's your only weakness in a matchup) but in that case really anchor doesn't matter either. maybe displacment wave is the way to go :p


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:03 am 
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My reason behind not having Anchor to the aether in the Deck is that, if I have a Willbreaker on the field, I really don't want to bounce anything, i rather have something to tap or an aura to put on the opponent creature.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:04 am 
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well really it's an over valued sorcery speed voyage's end but semantics (and what is disperse but an overpriced unsummon)

idk in my head the decks which attack against this deck go to wide for flare to matter (yes yes gaea's revenge but I don't much care about playing around that unless it's your only weakness in a matchup) but in that case really anchor doesn't matter either. maybe displacment wave is the way to go :p


I've been able to tap down opponents boards so that Flare can hit what I want it to pretty consistently. It's not JUST Gaea.. it's Primal Huntbeast too :)

I'm not scared of any other aggro matchup with this deck except maybe G/W Renown bc of pump spells. Red/Boros aggro gets pooped on by Tap Dancer.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:06 am 
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wb elves? that huntmaster can be mighty scary

(on a sie note I just played against another tapdancer deck on steam that was running claustrophbia anchor and bonds ._.)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:49 am 
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Woooo won a game vs a Jund deck through double reave soul AND languish. For a white critter deck it's really good at pushing through those final points.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:39 pm 
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So.. I just played a ton of matches testing the removal package for Tap Dancer (again) and I came to the following conclusions:

3x Disperse is an auto include.. so we're really only talking about 3-4 other slots in the deck. Disperse did great pretty much always.. mainly bc of its instant speed.

Anchor to the Aether just sucked for me soooo badly. I absolutely do not get what you guys see here. It's a sorcery speed Unsummon that costs 3 mana with a few cute little perks.. but I do not feel that these perks outweigh the sorcery speed, AND the other negative, which is that it's not permanent removal. It's like Frost Lynx without the 2/2 body.. it's F'N terrible IMO.

Celestial Flare: Its above average, I can get it to hit what I need it to 80% of the time. The damage getting fogged is the biggest negative.

Suppression Bonds: Its pretty good, but it's expensive. It feels great casting it on Evo Leap.

Claustrophobia: Its also pretty good.. but the double blue can get in the way.

Reprisal: Its good vs every deck except Thopters. I always had something to blow it on.

I didn't test Angelic Edict bc F that.

I'm seriously considering cutting Willbreaker. It hasn't mattered in the last 25-30 matches. I don't need it.. I wanna put in Archangel of Tithes and another removal spell.. maybe Hixus. The Angel taxes my opponents ability to block even more.. the synergy is there.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:10 am 
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I played around a bit with this deck tonight and I really *want* it to work because the concept is so fun and there is tons of synergy between most of the cards. Plus, I am tired of forests. So tired of all the little trees.

The problem really is that all the removal in these colors is just bad or really fiddly to use.

Celestial Flare can be difficult to hit the threat that you want it to hit, especially without other removal to back it up.

Disperse is solid but temporary. It's great when you are ahead but not really helpful if you stall or get behind, which is kind of an issue with the deck anyway. On the plus side you can use it to bounce and save your own dorks so that makes it an easy include.

Anchor to the Aether is a more expensive, sorcery speed version of Disperse. Again. It's great if you are 1 turn away from winning and just need to punch the last few points of damage through. Otherwise it's not all that helpful.

Claustrophobia is decent but the double blue is problematic as the mana base is already stretched kind of thin in both colors.

Reprisal doesn't hit Gaea's Revenge or Primal Huntbeast.

Suppression Bonds is too expensive to run more than 1 or 2 of, although it is effective against Evol Leap and Planeswalkers so it's hard not to keep at least that many.

Angelic Edict is both expensive and sorcery speed.

Between the mana sometimes not giving you the WW or UU you need when you need it, and the lack of good 1cc creatures in the format, this deck really needs a strong draw to compete. Even then, an early Twin Bolt or Reave against you can put you behind and once you are behind it is very hard to recover.

When you get ahead and can ride the tempo to victory it is very fun, though. It just really wants some cheap effective removal and there really isn't a card in the format that fits perfectly, just a lot of b-list choices that may or may not work depending on the matchup.

Afterlife would be pretty good.


Last edited by w6ire on Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:34 am 
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I run Angelic Edict and Suppression Bonds and don't bother with the 2cmc white removal. Decent removal is severely lacking in this game, so I'd rather have a card that costs 5 and always works as opposed to something that will be dead in the hand a lot of the time. Same goes for Edict vs. Solemn Offering. I'll gladly pay 2 more for something that will always be useful as opposed to a card that is not very good in a lot of matchups.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:52 am 
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Quote:
Afterlife would be pretty good.


Screw that, I want my Swords to Plowshares nao ! Death and taxes ! Death and taxes !


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:13 am 
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Quote:
Afterlife would be pretty good.


Screw that, I want my Swords to Plowshares nao ! Death and taxes ! Death and taxes !


Ha! Well I was trying not to be greedy and/or curmudgeonly in my wishfulness.

Kids these days don't know what it was like to play this game with actual *good* cards.

Get off my lawn! And I would have gotten away with it, if it wasn't for you kids and your pesky dog!


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