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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:08 pm 
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OK, took Locke's deck out for a 5-game spin...here are the results:

GM 1 - Rank 40 w/ Rakdos, go 2nd. WIN
5th turn Outland Colossus into 6th turn Chandra's Ignition. Win on turn 8.

GM 2 - Rank 38 w/ Boros, go 2nd. LOSS
He plays Cleric of the Forward Order turns 2 and 3. Never had that played against me. I 2 for 1 him. He puts out thopters and the artifact lord. Kills me in the air. I got him to 2 life with a 8/4 Zendikar Incarnate via Rogue's Passage. Those Clerics saved a life.

GM 3 - Rank 36 w/ Dimir, go 1st. LOSS
We both drop Planeswalkers, I get out a Nightfire Giant, he Languishes all of it away. I draw land. And land. And more land. On my 24th card into the library, I have 12 mana on the board and 3 in my hand. I concede as he has 5 cards in hand, 1 of which I know is a Fleshbag Marauder.

GM 4 - Disconnect. He was Rank 40 playing Goblins.

2nd time around had a BUG deck, Rank 39. WIN
I wear him down with big critters while he desperately draws to find removal. I get him to 3 life with a Perilous Myr on the board. He uses Reclamation Sage on it, I cast Twin Bolt in response. He has Calculated Dismissal...and I tap my last 3 mana for the win.

GM 5 - Rank 38, another BUG deck. WIN
I get down a turn 3 Evolutionary Leap and play 1 threat at a time (I had all 3 Zendikar Incarnate early) making him deal with the threats individually. He deals with the first 2, I get him with a Outland Colossus and Twin Bolt.

Overall, the deck absolutely rocks when you get and connect with a Chandra's Ignition. Which I did once in 5 games. Didn't see it any other game. Overall went 3-2.

Never had an issue with the manabase (3rd game drew way too much land, nothing to do with it). Always got to 6 mana within the first 7 turns.

Personally, I'd take out 2 lands and replace them with 1 Gaea's Revenge and the land that makes Thopters. There wasn't a game that went past turn 10 that I couldn't have used either card, especially since your threat density, if they remove the first couple, is pretty low if you don't replace them with an Evoleap. It would be nice to have something to do with the mana. As it stands now you can hope to draw one of 2 Nightfire Giants and shock them to death.

Alright, my take on Jund Mid-Range.

4 x Perilous Myr
4 x Gatecreeper Vine
4 x Elvish Visionary
2 x Evolutionary Leap
4 x Twin Bolt
3 x Fleshbag Marauder
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
3 x Kird Chieftain
3 x Zendikar Incarnate
2 x Nightfire Giant
2 x Outland Colossus
2 x Cruel Revival
2 x Chandra's Ignition
2 x Swamp
4 x Mountain
4 x Forest
2 x Woodland Cemetery
2 x Rootbound Crag
2 x Dragonskull Summit
1 x Rogue's Passage
2 x Golgari Guildgate
1 x Gruul Guildgate
2 x Rakdos Guildgate
2 x Evolving Wilds


Myr, Vine, and Visionary are sac bait for Evo Leap and Fleshbag. Fleshbag, Bolts, and Revival spot removal. Get more value of Nightfire with Revival as well. Kird, Nightfire, Zendikar, and Colossus are all targets for Ignition. Passage is to sneak in kills. Nissa is simply a Beast. She's a Megabeast! Also, Myr/Sac and Nightfire give additional options for removal. Kird just makes all the biggins scarier.

Thoughts?

Edit: Gates are there to mana fix via Vine and same with Wilds for basic land to ensure total value for Nightfire and Kird.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:17 pm 
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Kryder wrote:
OK, took Locke's deck out for a 5-game spin...here are the results:

GM 1 - Rank 40 w/ Rakdos, go 2nd. WIN
5th turn Outland Colossus into 6th turn Chandra's Ignition. Win on turn 8.

GM 2 - Rank 38 w/ Boros, go 2nd. LOSS
He plays Cleric of the Forward Order turns 2 and 3. Never had that played against me. I 2 for 1 him. He puts out thopters and the artifact lord. Kills me in the air. I got him to 2 life with a 8/4 Zendikar Incarnate via Rogue's Passage. Those Clerics saved a life.

GM 3 - Rank 36 w/ Dimir, go 1st. LOSS
We both drop Planeswalkers, I get out a Nightfire Giant, he Languishes all of it away. I draw land. And land. And more land. On my 24th card into the library, I have 12 mana on the board and 3 in my hand. I concede as he has 5 cards in hand, 1 of which I know is a Fleshbag Marauder.

GM 4 - Disconnect. He was Rank 40 playing Goblins.

2nd time around had a BUG deck, Rank 39. WIN
I wear him down with big critters while he desperately draws to find removal. I get him to 3 life with a Perilous Myr on the board. He uses Reclamation Sage on it, I cast Twin Bolt in response. He has Calculated Dismissal...and I tap my last 3 mana for the win.

GM 5 - Rank 38, another BUG deck. WIN
I get down a turn 3 Evolutionary Leap and play 1 threat at a time (I had all 3 Zendikar Incarnate early) making him deal with the threats individually. He deals with the first 2, I get him with a Outland Colossus and Twin Bolt.

Overall, the deck absolutely rocks when you get and connect with a Chandra's Ignition. Which I did once in 5 games. Didn't see it any other game. Overall went 3-2.

Never had an issue with the manabase (3rd game drew way too much land, nothing to do with it). Always got to 6 mana within the first 7 turns.

Personally, I'd take out 2 lands and replace them with 1 Gaea's Revenge and the land that makes Thopters. There wasn't a game that went past turn 10 that I couldn't have used either card, especially since your threat density, if they remove the first couple, is pretty low if you don't replace them with an Evoleap. It would be nice to have something to do with the mana. As it stands now you can hope to draw one of 2 Nightfire Giants and shock them to death.

Alright, my take on Jund Mid-Range.

4 x Perilous Myr
4 x Gatecreeper Vine
4 x Elvish Visionary
2 x Evolutionary Leap
4 x Twin Bolt
3 x Fleshbag Marauder
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
3 x Kird Chieftain
3 x Zendikar Incarnate
2 x Nightfire Giant
2 x Outland Colossus
2 x Cruel Revival
2 x Chandra's Ignition
2 x Swamp
4 x Mountain
4 x Forest
2 x Woodland Cemetery
2 x Rootbound Crag
2 x Dragonskull Summit
1 x Rogue's Passage
2 x Golgari Guildgate
1 x Gruul Guildgate
2 x Rakdos Guildgate
2 x Evolving Wilds


Myr, Vine, and Visionary are sac bait for Evo Leap and Fleshbag. Fleshbag, Bolts, and Revival spot removal. Get more value of Nightfire with Revival as well. Kird, Nightfire, Zendikar, and Colossus are all targets for Ignition. Passage is to sneak in kills. Nissa is simply a Beast. She's a Megabeast! Also, Myr/Sac and Nightfire give additional options for removal. Kird just makes all the biggins scarier.

Thoughts?

Edit: Gates are there to mana fix via Vine and same with Wilds for basic land to ensure total value for Nightfire and Kird.



Cool stuff, will give it a run. Also, posted my Golgari. You might like it.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:16 pm 
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Alright, my take on Jund Mid-Range.

4 x Perilous Myr
4 x Gatecreeper Vine
4 x Elvish Visionary
2 x Evolutionary Leap
4 x Twin Bolt
3 x Fleshbag Marauder
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
3 x Kird Chieftain
3 x Zendikar Incarnate
2 x Nightfire Giant
2 x Outland Colossus
2 x Cruel Revival
2 x Chandra's Ignition
2 x Swamp
4 x Mountain
4 x Forest
2 x Woodland Cemetery
2 x Rootbound Crag
2 x Dragonskull Summit
1 x Rogue's Passage
2 x Golgari Guildgate
1 x Gruul Guildgate
2 x Rakdos Guildgate
2 x Evolving Wilds


Myr, Vine, and Visionary are sac bait for Evo Leap and Fleshbag. Fleshbag, Bolts, and Revival spot removal. Get more value of Nightfire with Revival as well. Kird, Nightfire, Zendikar, and Colossus are all targets for Ignition. Passage is to sneak in kills. Nissa is simply a Beast. She's a Megabeast! Also, Myr/Sac and Nightfire give additional options for removal. Kird just makes all the biggins scarier.

Thoughts?

Edit: Gates are there to mana fix via Vine and same with Wilds for basic land to ensure total value for Nightfire and Kird.


6 games with this deck man. Sorry to say, it went 2-4. First two games were chronicled in the EVOLPEA thread, then I played;

3-Golgari ?Midrange? - He got a Colossus Renowned with some removal early and it was all I could do to play 1 creature a turn to block it for a while... I ran out of creatures. Loss. Deck needs more Removal

4- Orzhov Enchantments - The guy got one of his two Sigils and his singleton Archangle of Tithes and went on to produce several angles. Lost to a 2nd teir deck that got the nut draw. /shrug

5- GW ?Weenies? ?Renowned? I didn't see any creature over 3 mana (Nissa) she got Twin bolted on activation. I got singleton Rogues' Passage with a Colossus and he was dead in 3 turns. I think he just got punked on his powercards vs me getting a 1-of. Win

6-Thopters. I twin bolted Jace turn 2. He got Spy Network, I had a ZombieGiant but he was already ahead by 3 thopters so I opted to play more ZombieGiants and Incarnates but he had bounce and burn (even double Twin Bolting a Kird Cheiftain). Spy Network card advantage is good. Loss

The deck lacks enough removal. It lacks consistency. It's got a funky mana curve. Seems like you're relying on using the 2-drops to EvoLeap you into the 4&5 drops and that's not a good plan with it being a 2-of. Either that or you're waiting on Chandra's Ignition to pup up with a 4+ power creature in play and that's relying on another 2-of.

IDK if 3 colors is where you want to be in the current meta.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:32 am 
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Aleph wrote:
I've been playing Magic for a couple decades on and off, always casual. I've really been enjoying this ever-so-slightly Jundified version of Golgari Control that I put together. It's gotten me all the way to rank 40 (though I might be lower at any given moment), and it has Johnny and Timmy appeal as well.

J'GARI CONTROL DECKLIST*
2 Drops
4 x Perilous Myr
4 x Gatecreeper Vine
2 x Evolutionary Leap
4 x Reave Soul

3 Drops
1 x Liliana, Heretical Healer
2 x Graveblade Marauder
3 x Fleshbag Marauder
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
3 x Reclamation Sage

4 Drops
2 x Gravedigger
2 x Flameshadow Conjuring
2 x Languish

5 Drops
2 x Priest of the Blood Rite
2 x Outland Colossus
2 x Cruel Revival

6 Drop
1 x Woodland Bellower

23 Land
4 x Swamp
1 x Mountain
6 x Forest
2 x Woodland Cemetery
2 x Rootbound Crag
2 x Dragonskull Summit
1 x Golgari Guildgate
1 x Rakdos Guildgate
4 x Evolving Wild

*I sometimes run a modified version which drops the Graveblade and Bellower for Jagged-Scar Archers, Gatecreeper for Elvish Visionary, and Colossus for Gilt-Leaf Winnower. It's stronger against Thopters due to the large number of threats with unequal power and toughness and the Archers ability to ping Thopter tokens, and its got nice draw with the Visionaries, but its land fixing is less stable and I miss the offensive punch of the removed cards.

So this is Golgari Control + Flameshadow Conjuring (abbreviated FC from here on), basically. It splashes the bare minimum amount of red lands to make red mana reliably available for casting and powering FC, and until it hits that it plays regular Golgari Control. Unlike some Golgari Control decks it runs either Gatecreeper Vines OR Elvish Visionaries (see variant) because I was getting blown up by some really fast decks that killed me while I was still setting up my board and I needed more room for early game defense. Other than that, FC is the only real change.

But FC is huge, especially with Evolutionary Leap. The basic effect is that every time you create a creature token, you can sac the temporary token to Evo Leap to continue drawing threats while maintaining board presence and creating a disposable offense. It also combines wonderfully with the large number of ETB effects attached to creatures in this deck (including Nissa's Forest grab ability - just be sure to pick the one without the haste marker to keep). Double Fleshbag sac, double Gravedigger rez (including "infinite" where one Gravedigger digs the other out of the Graveyard and the duplicate gets something else), double Bellower (for cc of 9, you can have 3 permanent creatures and 3 tokens), even double Myr followed by double Evo Leap to do 2 packets of 2 damage to anything and draw 2 creatures for 5 mana.

Notes:
- Liliana's -X and emblem abilities also create possible triggers for FC.
- Duplicating Liliana & sacrificing the real one in hopes that the token copy will flip does not work on IOS. AFAIK, it should work by the rules, but it does not.
- Lili's flip requirement is a non-token creature. Just a friendly reminder.
- Due to the order of the stack the first opportunity you have to copy a creature with Flameshadow will be the one you bring in through Woodland Bellower's ability, not the Bellower itself, so if you're on a budget save your mn to copy the Bellower.
- I've brought Gaea's Revenge in and out a bunch of times. I miss it when it's gone, but I feel like I need to run another land when it's in, and if the deck is doing what it does best I usually don't need it while if it's not sometimes the GR feels way too slow. Ultimately I think it's better in Golgari Control than here - I have to have good early control to make space to cast 2 enchants that do nothing without further mana to feed them, and sinking 2 cards into a 7cc creature when I could clone a Priest, Colossus, or Bellower for <= 7 doesn't really appeal. However, just as an FYI you can double GR - it's not targeted so it bypasses the "green only" exception.


Aleph, I like this. I've been constantly tweaking my splash-red Golgari Control list for a while, but actually took it in a different direction. A few questions and comments, if you don't mind:

1) Gatecreepers + Visionaries. Honestly, I never seriously considered dropping one of them. It's interesting, and would certainly free up a few slots, but I fear that without the Gatecreepers I'll lose desperately-needed mana fixing (and an early chump blocker), and without Visionaries I lose the turn 2 stall against the various 2/1s in red and white aggro lists. And, of course, I want that cheap early creature on the board to start Leaping. How's it been playing with just the Vines, particularly against aggro?

2) Love the Colossus over Revenge. I made that switch a while ago and haven't looked back. Revenge is great in strict Golgari, but even there I'm starting to move toward the Colossus + Bellower package.

3) Flameshadow Conjuring has been in and out of my list a few times, but it so often feels like a win-more card to me. Are you finding that you're winning games you wouldn't have without it? It's really only felt worth it to me (in admittedly limited testing, hence the question) when I have Evo Leap up and running, but in 90+% of those cases, I'm almost certainly winning anyway, albeit it might take a few more turns. And it feels terrible to draw it when you're in topdeck mode. I've got Chandra's Ignition in this spot at the moment, but which has been particularly impressive with Colossus in for GR (and with the Zendikar Incarnates, see the next point).

4) I've cut the Gravediggers in the four-mana slot for Zendikar Incarnate, and I have to say that I haven't missed them. So often you sit there with a Gravedigger in hand and think, "am I really going to spend four mana for a 2/2 just so that I can pick back up a Gate/Visionary/Myr and have to spend mana to cast it again next turn?" My list has been gradually moving toward the ability to play a midrange aggro game when necessary, because I found that I was too reliant on Evo Leap, and without it I'd find myself underpowered. ZIs have been fantastic there. This is more a philosophical difference, I suppose. Your list looks a little more strict control, mine leans a little more toward aggro so that I have a decent ramp game if I can't find Evo Leap.

5) Priest of the Blood Rite sometimes feels slow to me, too. I cannot think of a good reason in theory why it wouldn't be great, but in actual play I find my opponent consistently able to deal with my 5/5 flier. How's it been in your testing? All-star, just okay, somewhere in between?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:59 am 
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Feynman wrote:
I don't think nightfire giant is particularly bad, but I think 5 mana cards need a pretty big impact especially in non-ramping decks. Would you include a 5 mana 5/4 with no text? I don't think so, and I don't think the giant's ability is strong enough to use instead of playing another creature most of the time. I think I need to test the card and Jund decks more to form a solid opinion, though.


Just wanted to add my 2 cents. Yeah, Nightfire lacks the immidiate impact on the battlefield but what he can provide is 7 damage to the face if unanswered (for 5 mana, I remind you), removal of any X/2 creatures (which we have a lot of in the current meta) and simple burn to the face if there's a stall and you can't attack with him. What I like the most about him is that he provides a cure for the mana flood. When you hit 6-7 lands and start topdecking you usually don't want to see any more lands. With the Giant on the table I actually won't refuse to hit 10 lands to poke my opponent 4 damage a turn.

I wound't run 3 of him but 2 is a staple in my Jund builds along with the Ignitions.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:00 am 
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Auunj Jund - To be discussed in my latest Duels Diaries post (http://tinyurl.com/nwoewkw)

All credit to original designer Auunj, I only changed two cards from his original list.

4 x Fiery Impulse
4 x Perilous Myr
3 x Ravaging Blaze
4 x Twin Bolt
1 x Reave Soul
3 x Fleshbag Marauder
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
4 x Read the Bones
2 x Exquisite Firecraft
2 x Languish
3 x Cruel Revival
3 x Necromantic Summons
2 x Gaea's Revenge
4 x Swamp
4 x Mountain
3 x Forest
2 x Woodland Cemetery
2 x Rootbound Crag
2 x Dragonskull Summit
2 x Golgari Guildgate
2 x Gruul Guildgate
3 x Rakdos Guildgate

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:09 am 
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oh man, teaser decklists before knowing how well they did this week? I LIKE

the only wincons are GR, Nissa and Ravaging Blaze?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 11:37 am 
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oh man, teaser decklists before knowing how well they did this week? I LIKE

the only wincons are GR, Nissa and Ravaging Blaze?



It's up - http://tinyurl.com/nwoewkw


Don't forget about Summons, it is a finisher, you just don't know which/what finisher.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:47 pm 
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Great post again. In particular interest in Jund. What for me is interesting is not necessarily no leap but no ignition. Of course due to the ignition the build I am use to has no GR.

I haven't taken so much time recently to try different decks but Jund is one of them but it will be interesting to try a different build.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:50 pm 
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I can't imagine myself ever wanting three copies of Ravaging Blaze. It's five mana to kill an X/3. As a finisher, two copies should be just fine. I'd definitely play a 25th land in that slot.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:53 pm 
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i thought the deck was a little thin on finishers.

Yeah, a 25th land would be nice.

But you can't argue with those results :)


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:34 pm 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
I can't imagine myself ever wanting three copies of Ravaging Blaze. It's five mana to kill an X/3. As a finisher, two copies should be just fine. I'd definitely play a 25th land in that slot.


Well, I didn't ever have mana issues. The 3 blazes are useful as you don't really care about tapping out and wasting one early. Sometimes you need to kill something big or a competent opponent removes his small creature to prevent the face damage.

Of course I'd be interested in the results of the change.

I personally play Chandra instead of the Reave Soul as another finisher.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:40 pm 
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ah chandra in tricolor, a person after my heart


Last edited by babassoonist on Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:45 pm 
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you girls are NUTS


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:05 pm 
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Auunj Jund - To be discussed in my latest Duels Diaries post (http://tinyurl.com/nwoewkw)

All credit to original designer Auunj, I only changed two cards from his original list.

4 x Fiery Impulse
4 x Perilous Myr
3 x Ravaging Blaze
4 x Twin Bolt
1 x Reave Soul
3 x Fleshbag Marauder
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
4 x Read the Bones
2 x Exquisite Firecraft
2 x Languish
3 x Cruel Revival
3 x Necromantic Summons
2 x Gaea's Revenge
4 x Swamp
4 x Mountain
3 x Forest
2 x Woodland Cemetery
2 x Rootbound Crag
2 x Dragonskull Summit
2 x Golgari Guildgate
2 x Gruul Guildgate
3 x Rakdos Guildgate


I love Jund. I am gonna run this when I get home. Thank you both! I have been in 3 color withdraw!

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:42 pm 
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girls are NUTS


:fixed:

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:55 pm 
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I have been in 3 color withdraw!


I wonder if we'll ever find out what being in lockhammer withdrawal must be like


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:59 pm 
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I have been in 3 color withdraw!


I wonder if we'll ever find out what being in lockhammer withdrawal must be like

probably just as enjoyable as barney withdraw


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:01 pm 
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Take it back!!!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:05 pm 
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I have been in 3 color withdraw!


I wonder if we'll ever find out what being in lockhammer withdrawal must be like


Kinda like being a level 2 in Destiny all over again.

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