Well, here I thought you were trying to build "The Answer" to the question of the meta as per your first post, which I and others have already discovered is not possible in these colors. And I could give you some advice on that build but I'm not going to because it's pointless, because with the card pool we have, Dimir Control is just not competitive.

Esper isn't competitive, either. Move along. If I wanted to talk about tier 1 I would post under meta. The challenge was to try and push dimir a little further, simple as that. Once again, move along.

hehe, I don't think that's going to put out the fire.

Hey, when you say that you would post under meta, what do you mean?

Agreed. Esper is just diluted Dimir most of the time, and the big reasons to go Esper (Celestial Flare, Tragic Arrogance) are double white in a tri color deck in need of double black for Languish and possibly double blue for counterspells.

Control sucks due to bad counterspells (either turn 3 and useless later or turn 4 and way too late for aggro) and lack of a cheaper, solid "this creature is destroyed" spell. Also, was Planar Cleansing or similar board wipe considered "too much" for this card pool? It would have been a massive improvement IMHO.

EDIT: Control needs Green over white, better enchantment hate, best control Planeswalker (or best PW in general) easier mana cost/fixing and Roil could really do work to stall a losing game particularly with Nisa in play. Also, that moss to delay midrange decks could be an idea, I've been trying to work on a Temur/Sultai control deck and have got some promising results in the Temur one. Gonna fiddle more with it until it can become consistent though.

Esper is more competitive than Dimir. And there is nothing wrong with the manabase. Double white for Celestial Flare doesn't conflict with anything at all, because it's for Gaea's Revenge, so it's not like you're not gonna be needing to have 2 white on turn 2 or anything. And I don't personally run Tragic Arrogance. So with 6 checklands plus however many Guildgates and/or Evolving Wilds you want to run, there's plenty of diversity in the manabase.

As for counterspells, yeah they suck, but it doesn't cripple the entire archetype like you seem to think it does. Calculated Dismissal is absolutely terrible and should not be run in any lists, but Countermand has a place as a 2-3 of used almost strictly to protect your bomb once you have it out. Used in that capacity, it performs very well.

Anyway, going back to PureSynesthesia's quote in this chain, if the challenge here was to try to push Dimir a little further, then you should have represented it as such, instead of saying you are trying to solve the meta and literally calling your deck "The Answer." All I was pointing out initially was that it is not an answer to the meta. If you didn't try to represent it as such then this conversation wouldn't be happening.

And I have no idea what you mean by "posting it under meta." I don't think you have any idea, either.

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=11235
Troll no! Bad troll. Release your ego. Were talking about digital cardboard. Also, what i said, literally, was that it was an exercise in solving meta questions. TheA swer was simply intended as a generic title. What does blue black control always do? Try to solve the format. Thusly, the answer. If i called it elfball it would be better i know. Maybe next week the constraints will be green spells and artifacts. You should read more carefully.

what the hell is this post

Here is a further iteration of a focused Removal/Draw Control/Mill deck.

Turbo Tutelage

4 x Bone Splinters

4 x Alchemist's Vial
3 x Runed Servitor
4 x Perilous Myr
4 x Reave Soul
2 x Displacement Wave

3 x Sphinx's Tutelage
2 x Anchor to the Aether
4 x Artificer's Epiphany
3 x Fleshbag Marauder

3 x Whirler Rogue
2 x Languish

4 x Dimir Guildgate
2 x Drowned Catacomb
2 x Foundry of the Consuls
7 x Swamp
7 x Island


Tons of removal. Good draw, helps find then pump those Tute's. Plays like a true (life)clock watching control deck... look to stall and stretch the game for 1 more turn. Stabilize early, drop Tutelage , grind-the-mill.

Hi, first post for me yay
I play a lot online but it has been ages since i left the paper version of magic sadly.
I like to experiment with new deck so here it is, my blue/black milling deck.

I like it, i've good success during match online
Not only is center around the milling effect but also is powerfull on the ressurect side and killing your opponent

2x Perilous Myr
1x Jace, Vyrn's Prodigy
2x Dispacement Wave
2x Reave Soul
2x Flashbag Marauder
3x Sphinx's Tutelage
2x Artificer's Epiphany
2x Anchor to the Aether
2x Read the Bones
2x Inspiration
3x Countermand
2x Talent of the Telepath
2x Languish
4x Unholy Hunger
3x Necromantic Summons
3x Rise from the Grave

10x Island
7x Swamp
2x Drowned Catacomb
2x Dimir Guildgate
3x Evolving Wilds

I know many people don't like Talent of the Telepath but to me this card is awesome
In a milling deck, removing 7 cards at once from your opponent's library is great, also with Jace, Vyrn's Prodigy you can play it over again.

There is definitely space for improvement so any suggestion or idea is welcome

Okay, I'm trying to get the achievement for Jace - casting two or more spells from the bin during one game. I've decided Dimir seems a good candidate for this because it contains the most spells I'd like to cast again for an impact. This is my base idea; it probably is not optimal.

4 x Perilous Myr
1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3 x Telling Time
3 x Disperse
2 x Displacement Wave
2 x Reave Soul

3 x Jorubai Murk Lurker
3 x Fleshbag Marauder
4 x Read the Bones

3 x Gravedigger
2 x Languish

3 x Cruel Revival

2 x Kothoped, Soul Hoarder

1 x Alhammarret, High Arbiter

5 x Island
7 x Swamp
2 x Drowned Catacomb
2 x Foundry of the Consuls
1 x Rogue's Passage
4 x Dimir Guildgate
3 x Evolving Wilds


I went with non-maximum copies of several spells on the expectation that toolboxing may work a bit better if I get to use Jace. The Gravediggers will consider him a high-priority target. I would like to find room for Possessed Skaab and Liliana, but it doesn't seem readily forthcoming. I feel/hope the Murk Lurkers will let me get away with using Kothoped and Read the Bones as my primary draws. I almost wanted to use Child of Night as speedbumps, but lifelink is pretty crap with one toughness and no way of boosting it. My empire for a Basilisk Collar! I'm a little nervous at only realistically having three large fliers to close out with and nothing beyond Gravedigging to protect them. I wanted some Necromantic Summons, but again, room. I should probably also be running 25 land and/or a Meteorite or two. In short, I feel like I have a plan here, but that it's heavily flawed somewhere along the line, I just can't tell where offhand.

My Dimir Control list, as discussed in Duels Diaries Week 10.

1 x Bone Splinters
3 x Telling Time
4 x Disperse
4 x Reave Soul
3 x Jorubai Murk Lurker
1 x Liliana, Heretical Healer
3 x Fleshbag Marauder
4 x Read the Bones
3 x Whirler Rogue
2 x Languish
1 x Disciple of the Ring
2 x Priest of the Blood Rite
3 x Cruel Revival
1 x Necromantic Summons
6 x Island
6 x Swamp
3 x Foundry of the Consuls
4 x Dimir Guildgate
4 x Evolving Wilds

My Dimir Mill/Control/Midrange thing

It wants to win by beating face or mill. I didn't want to go all in on control/mill in case the Tutelages never show up. The deck needs to be able to fight.

4x Perilous Myr
3x Reave Soul

3x Jorubai, Murk Lurker
1x Liliana, Heretical Healer
3x Fleshbag Marauder
3x Sphinx Tutelage
4x Read the Bones

1x Erebos's Titan
4x Inspiration
2x Languish

2x Gilt Leaf Winnower
2x Possessed Skaab
3x Cruel Revival

1x Kothophed, Soul Hoarder

Here is a zombie themed Control deck list
happy to hear some suggestions

2 Drops (10 cards)
2x Perilous Myr
3x Shambling Ghoul
4x Reave Soul
1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy

3 Drops (11 cards)
4x Read the Bones
3x Fleshbag Marauder
3x Jorubai Murk Lurker
1x Liliana, Heretical Healer

4 Drops (6 cards)
2x Bitter Revelation
2x Gravedigger
2x Languish

5 Drops (6 cards)
3x Cruel Revival
2x Possessed Skaab
1x Desciple of the Ring

6 Drops
1x Kothophed, Soul Hoarder

7 Drops
1x Alhammarret, High Arbiter

Lands (25 cards)
12x Swamp
7x Island
2x Drowned Catacomb
4x Dimir Guildgate

It does have a lot of life loss in it but I found Murk Lurkers do a good job of gaining life back.

that deck is terrible


Welcome to the site!

yes because a 7 mana 5/5 flyer belongs in a zombie deck

much constructive replies

not much that can be said it's just a worse version of a deck thats already not that good if he thinks stuff like shambling ghoul is good in a "control" deck well sorry but he's just wrong

there are 10 other pages on how to build dimir control right or he could be unique and build a zombie tempo deck but like I said as it stands worse version of a sub-optimal deck

I'm just hazing the new guy

The reason I wanted to direct him to this thread is so he sees the direction others have gone and get some ideas. Mobius plays a build similar to his so maybe I'm the one that's off but it just doesn't seem that good.

I would think that Bone Splinters would be good in that deck, but it's not there. Maybe necromantic summons, and that enchantment that scrys when stuff dies...

mobius' build was much more aggressive iirc and had more then 13 zombie cards in a "zombie" deck

This is Mobius' build which I play.. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PASlJjorkKs)

UB DimirZombius [Origins]

2 x Bone Splinters

4 x Perilous Myr
4 x Screeching Skaab
2 x Despoiler of Souls
4 x Shambling Ghoul
1 x Shadows of the Past

4 x Frost Lynx
1 x Liliana, Heretical Healer
2 x Graveblade Marauder
3 x Fleshbag Marauder
4 x Nantuko Husk

4 x Undead Servant

1 x Cruel Revival

6 x Island
11 x Swamp
2 x Drowned Catacomb
1 x Rogue's Passage
4 x Evolving Wilds