When you say mature, do you mean "not for kids", or "adults only"?
Does mature anime have to be not for kids?
Given that maturity is more or less synonymous with growth and development then... kind of? I understood it more as a "not aimed at kids" rather than "kids literally can't enjoy this".
I will give it a 7. It has a interesting storytelling style, which is unique, that is the best part of the anime. Its major point is also its major downfall. You know from some scenes who will stay alive, losing the surprise. The story is not all that good when placed in the right order. It has a huge cast of characters, which makes it really hard to provide background for all of them.
It is interesting, but not much more than that. I am glad it had only 16 episodes, because I was starting to consider quitting it.
Joined: Sep 22, 2013 Posts: 5700 Location: Inside my own head
Identity: Human
On the subject of "adults-only" anime, I was surprised at how badass the fighting scenes in Ai were. Like, the actual fighting scenes.
On the subject of "mature" anime, I find most shows that people call "mature" are actually "hard-boiled" -- that is, the "dark and edgy" idea of blood&violence, swear words, and considering we're talking about Japanese media, some improbably endowed women and/or panty shots.
Generally these titles let me down for lack of actual maturity.
I'm okay with the "not aimed at kids" moniker. But as I recently heard and will agree with 100%: "kids deserve our best, not our leftovers", so I consider a lot of the best animation for kids to watch to not specifically be aimed at them (although I will admit to loving a lot of animated shows and movies of this decade, because jegus they are good).
On the subject of "mature" anime, I find most shows that people call "mature" are actually "hard-boiled" -- that is, the "dark and edgy" idea of blood&violence, swear words, and considering we're talking about Japanese media, some improbably endowed women and/or panty shots.
Generally these titles let me down for lack of actual maturity.
The maturity is not supposed to be on the product, but on the viewer, which is supposed to be mature enough to understand what is right or wrong, and form his own opinions. That is the point.
That is why I am against anything tragic, violent or sexual to young children, but they need to be exposed as they age to things continually less correct, and also form their judgement. After all the world is not exactly a perfect place to live, there are many things wrong with it. I wish it were, but truth is, it isn't.
On the subject of "mature" anime, I find most shows that people call "mature" are actually "hard-boiled" -- that is, the "dark and edgy" idea of blood&violence, swear words, and considering we're talking about Japanese media, some improbably endowed women and/or panty shots.
Generally these titles let me down for lack of actual maturity.
The maturity is not supposed to be on the product, but on the viewer, which is supposed to be mature enough to understand what is right or wrong, and form his own opinions. That is the point.
That is why I am against anything tragic, violent or sexual to young children, but they need to be exposed as they age to things continually less correct, and also form their judgement. After all the world is not exactly a perfect place to live, there are many things wrong with it. I wish it were, but truth is, it isn't.
I don't think I completely agree with that, but I can understand where you're coming from.
heh, I never thought that I would've sparked a discussion like this
I agree that the parent's role is to teach children. But I disagree that it's there role to expose. Yes, children will be exposed to things, but we don't need to be the ones to expose it to them.
As in art, there is needless exposure, and the is tasteful exposure. Compare Heaven's Lost Property and Spice and Wolf repsectively. These are both shows I enjoyed, but one had sexual content everywhere, and the other (though it had nudity) only used it as necessary and none more. Also note that it wasn't sexualized even when it was used. This applies also to violence, tragedy, language, gore etc.
I just wish there was less needless stuff floating around.
NOTE: While I did use Heaven's Lost Property as an example of needless sexuality, I do know that that was effectively the show's entire base. So while the comparsion isn't entirely fair, you get the idea.
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quotes wrote:
squinty_eyes: Alt, you have fantastic logic. And zero political prowess. CKY: Through a convoluted series of events involving three tons of garden gnomes and a pickup truck, Henderson’s Magikarp defeats the Deoxys terrorizing the city.
I agree that the parent's role is to teach children. But I disagree that it's there role to expose. Yes, children will be exposed to things, but we don't need to be the ones to expose it to them.
Well I agree with that, specially about the teaching part. The exposure will come naturally, but I don't thing a parent should neglect that too. For example, a parent died, you should try to explain what happened in the terms the child can understand. That is a form of exposure, a exposure to death.
Other things are important too, like the old phrase Don't trust in strangers and why. That is a form of exposure to the evilness of the real world too.
Joined: Sep 22, 2013 Posts: 5700 Location: Inside my own head
Identity: Human
I realized the actual reason I disagree with True_Believer earlier. I don't really want to force the discussion if others are finished with it, though, so I'm putting it in spoilers.
if you're done with the conversation, don't click
seriously, you don't have to read
quote-unquote maturity in anime
So, giving it a bit of thought, especially in regards to how I consider the good Western cartoons of recent years1 to be more mature than most isn't necessarily because of approach, but because of content. Like I mentioned earlier, when maturity is raised in relation to anime, it usually means blood, violence, sexuality, or a mixture of those elements. When I say these usually let me down, I mean that there usually are not mature elements beyond those three. Now, there are other issues that can be tackled on a case-by-case basis like the horrible manner that Sword Art Online tackles its other mature theme of virtual reality and interpersonal relationships therein, and for the sake of simplicity I'll be ignoring that for now.2
Take for example, Elfen Lied. I would argue that, even with its faults, it is a mature show, because even with the excessive violence and nudity, it (at least tries to) tackle the darker sides of science, humanity, and humans' relationship to both the science and to the forces it tries to handle -- in an exploration of "do the ends justify the means" approach.
Now, PSG3, despite being a favorite of mine, I would never try to convince anyone that it was mature. Its violence and sexuality exists purely for their own sake and it doesn't bother delivering any message or explore any topic besides what it can use for jokes and gags.
Serial Experiments Lain is, by comparison, an extremely mature show that has (to my memory) no sexuality, no blood and little in the way of violence. It explores the high-level concepts related to the digital age with the advent of the world wide web, such as what constitutes identity and what makes physical relationships any less real than those made over the internet.
That's why I say both that a lot of "mature" anime let me down in terms of maturity, and why I say I think Western cartoons such as Steven Universe and Avatar: the Last Airbender are mature. Even having seen less than half the show so far, I know Steven Universe tackles topics like never knowing a parent (and having a single, deadbeat parent as your only parent), having surrogate family, living with a past that constantly catches up to you, being expected to walk in someone else's shoes, and other subcategories of the above. Actually, thinking about it, those are a lot of the same topics The Legend of Aang4 covers.
As a final note I should add that I would be lying if I said approach and handling of the content doesn't play a roll. After all, the reason Attack on Titan fails to be mature in my eye2 is because the messages it tries to tackle are pretty much completely undermined by what actually happens in the show. The horrors of a starvation during wartime are skipped over entirely, the idea of becoming monsters to fight monsters is neglected in favor of focusing on what are essentially cool kaiju fights, and so on. The main point I was trying to make with the above examples is just that violent, tragic, or sexual subjects are not all there is to be considered with regards to "mature" shows.
1 including, but not limited to: Avatar the Last Airbender, Steven Universe 2 Not that I won't take any advantage that I can to vent my frustration about SAO and AoT 3 Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt 4 The Legend of Aang is an alternative title I've heard for Avatar: the Last Airbender which I find is useful for differentiating what exact subject you're talking about when two movies (James Cameron's Avatar as well as Shyamalan's The Last Airbender) exist as well as the sequel series being called The Legend of Korra
Joined: Oct 30, 2013 Posts: 16394 Location: Secret Lair
I don't think children under the age of 18 should be watching ecchi anime. ..... Maybe spice and wolf if you are least 15 and mainly interested in it for their hardcore half-assed version of medieval economics.
Eventually children will be exposed to everything. It is a parent's role to make sure that exposure occurs in a semi-controlled and most importantly safe fashion. This does not mean making them watch Heaven's Lost Property or other such anime. (in fact it probably means preventing it) But it means explaining certain realities to them before they learn about it from the WRONG source. This applies to sex, drugs, alcohol, credit cards, internet safety, and a whole host of other dangerous issues that lots of parents don't want to talk to their kids about. Otherwise you end up like some of the freshmen at my college....
@Luna: I agree with it all. And I totally forgot about Avatar. I know the next one I can watch with my daughter! ^^
@mjack: While I agree that kids shouldn't be watching anime, I don't think you can put a hardfast rule or age limit to it. Obviously, each one is different. While as a whole it's geared towards older audiences, there are a few here and there that kids can enjoy as well. And the problem isn't limited to the freshmen at your college. I feel that as a whole society is falling away from parenting these days.
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quotes wrote:
squinty_eyes: Alt, you have fantastic logic. And zero political prowess. CKY: Through a convoluted series of events involving three tons of garden gnomes and a pickup truck, Henderson’s Magikarp defeats the Deoxys terrorizing the city.
It's all fun and games until someone discovers the reason for your behavior.
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quotes wrote:
squinty_eyes: Alt, you have fantastic logic. And zero political prowess. CKY: Through a convoluted series of events involving three tons of garden gnomes and a pickup truck, Henderson’s Magikarp defeats the Deoxys terrorizing the city.
I think we've had a similar discussion a bunch of months ago.
I'm not sure about anyone else, but I really haven't said anything about the culture. Not that I'm going to stop being sour about incest plotlines, but so far it hasn't made any difference in my arguments. The only off-handed remark that I've made has been "considering we're talking about Japanese animation, impossible chest sizes and panty shots", and that was more stating the specific brand of sexuality often found in anime than any commentary on the culture in or around anime.
I don't think a mature anime needs to have any sexual connotation or violence, but it will have always something that is not proper to younger audiences. That is why I don't think there is any difference in labeling something as mature or not aimed for kids. One thing necessarily is the same as the other.
Using Luna's argument, for example, House of Five Leaves doesn't have any sex or explicit violence, but all the characters act against the law, even if sometimes for good reasons. How can an immature mind grasp that concept?
@Luna: You REALLY hate SAO don't you? I'm just starting to get to what extent now. I'm not complaining, I'm just pointing out.
@TB: They both can and can't. They understand what is happening, but they don't understand why it is happening. But even then, that shouldn't matter becuase themes like this show up everywhere. Robin Hood stoel from teh rich and gave to the poor. He was breaking the law, but doing the right thing. Kids love that kind of thing, and they can understand more than people generally think.
I'm not going to say they understand everything, as they don't, but what matters isn't what is being shown, but what the child is taking away from it. Usually, at the yound age, they just want to be entertained. They can learn, follow, and understand story and plot, but that' usually less important than humor/entertainment.
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quotes wrote:
squinty_eyes: Alt, you have fantastic logic. And zero political prowess. CKY: Through a convoluted series of events involving three tons of garden gnomes and a pickup truck, Henderson’s Magikarp defeats the Deoxys terrorizing the city.
Most programs directed to children are morally wrong, if you look with great care. The main difference between those and the more mature ones are the focus of the story and the consequences of those acts.
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