Gonna try that run. Disciple is a strong card. I was thinking of cutting back to 24 lands for it. I've flooded a couple times playing the deck as is. Hard to mill when you keep drawing lands.

Welcome to LNN btw.

I made some changes myself, but I didn't have enough time to test them. I don't wanna post a new version every day.
Currently trying -4 Elvish Visionary, +2 Reclamation Sage, +2 Inspiration.
Another change I might make in the future is -2 Displacement Wave, +2 Disperse. I like both cards very much, but Disperse is just a little more versatile. It helps protect the Tutelage and is great against auras or Chandra's Ignition for a bazillion damage.

I've been running 2 reave souls (synergy with languish to hit any non hexproof dude in the format; and hits some problem dudes before you reach languish mana, rahter than just chumping them if even that with visionary) 1 reclamation sage and disperse nr3 instead of the 4 visionaries.
Also dropped 1 wave and subbed jace (0/2 means he can actually block a myr/gloryseeker, and lategame he's a nice distraction from your true wincons ) back in, removed one tutelage for disciple of the ring.

Ran it like this for the better part of this week. Went 9/1 on steam. Loss was a mulligan to 5 on the draw vs a friend that had double gaeas revenge

That's solid too. Disciple is such a strong card though, it's hard to pass up. I will try running at 24 with these lists.

Disciple is a very strong card, but I'm not convinced it belongs in this deck. As my only creature it will activate every removal stuck in their hand. You know, the "dies to removal" argument is pointless in creature heavy decks, because it applies to pretty much all creatures and every removal spell hitting one creature doesn't hit your other guys. However, if there are no other guys, "dies to removal" becomes a real issue.

Thanks Hakeem for showing the deck. I hope you have more challenging opponents in the future
Oh and when you do, it's ok to take some early hits and save the Fog effects for later. The swings become bigger each turn after all. Just don't drop below 10 too early if they run a lot of burn.

I'd be interested in your opinion, if you miss Reclamation Sage against Evolutionary Leap. That card can be a real problem, because they can dig for their enchantment hate and reuse it with Gravedigger. Disperse helps, but once this engine gets going you probably run out of answers faster. I'm not sure if I wanna keep the Sages for this single problem, but Evo Leap is very popular right now. Well, I guess it also helps in the mill mirror or against Molten Vortex. Not needed against other enchantments though.

The thing about Disciple is that it protects itself with repeatable Spell Pierces. It's tough to get rid of.

I have to play the deck more to form a true opinion, but aside from the 3-4 "flex" slots, I think the core is solid. Nice deck.

Thanks. I just lost a match, because the game neither let me pause nor play the fog. I was mashing both and lost to lag... that's annoying.

Btw, I tried to drop Displacement Wave and immediately got punished 4 times in a row against thopters. I'm never gonna take them out now
It's not like you need the card every game, but it's another spell against wide boards and when you need one of those, you usually need it fast. I'll just play as many as there are to draw them consistently. If I don't need them, I can still just loot them away later.

I think 1 Reclamation Sage should be enough. I hate drawing this guy in pretty much every matchup except control. If somebody tries to mill me, there's a good chance I'll draw him or find him in my graveyard to fetch with Skaab. Then I can bounce and replay him as often as I need.

24 lands might be enough, I'm gonna test that. Hakeem, you asked for the reasons for Evolving Wilds and gave the right answer: In a 3-coloured deck I need some mana fixers. They also keep the land count healthy for playable opening hands, but make you draw less land later on to compensate for all the draw power that is gonna flood you. Oh and of course they're useful to protect Nissa - just crack them in response to instant removal and flip her.

I'm gonna try -4 Elvish Visionary, -1 Island, +1 Reclamation Sage, +2 Disperse, +2 Inspiration. This way I can keep the Waves, have 4 Disperse anyway and keep the draw power at the same level as with Visionaries. The only thing that remains to be seen is if the mana base is still good enough with 1 less land and less 2-drops to dig into the deck.

I'm still grinding away with only 21 packs left. I can't believe this is the deck I've been wanting to play and I'm still missing 15 of the 36 neccessary cards.

Anyway, I think we all agree the following should be the core group of cards:

1-drop
4x Fog

2-drop
2x Disperse
4x Alchemist's Vial

3-drop
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
3x Sphinx's Tutelage
3x Hydrolash
4x Artificer's Epiphany

4-drop
2x Languish

5-drop
3x Possessed Skaab

X-Spells
2x Displacement Wave

Land
8x Island
2x Swamp
4x Forest
4x Evolving Wilds
2x Hinterland Harbor
2x Drowned Catacomb
2x Woodland Cemetery

I've removed 3 Telling time, 4 Elvish Visionary and 1 Island from the core for different reasons. With all the draw, the 25 lands is too much. I'm not convinced the elvish visionaries are good enough, and telling time, while great for deck digging, doesn't draw cards to trigger our mill.

So, with these final 8 spots, I think I'd replace them with 2 Disperse, 2 Esperzoa, 2 Elemental Bond, 1 Reclamation Sage and 1 Disciple of the Ring.

At first, I thought that Elemental bond would be a bad addition, but works surprizing well with Esperzoa and Possessed Skaab. It turns Esperzoa into a recastable draw flyer. And, with a Dispere in hand, it turns Possessed skaab into a 5 cmc large creature fog WITH draw. And Esperzoa has great synergy with the Vials.

The addition of Disperse is obvious, it works so well with this deck I decided to double down on it. I think the sage is needed in control matches, and with one slot left I think I need to try Disciple. It's a big old bulleye - for sure - but if it sticks, it's game over.

I'm also tempted to drop Elemental Bond and go with Thopter Spy Network for potential draw and more chump blockers ( and Alt win) - but it seems EVERYONE goes for the thopter's. I don't want to go with the crowd.

Anyway, anyone agree/disagree with my assessment of the core? What do you think my additional cards.

Man, I wish I had all these cards to test out the deck. Curse you randomizer!

For the fog + mill deck, I'm not sold on inspiration over visionaries. A lot of board states I've encountered have been a bunch of 2-3 attack creatures and a fatty (say, vs nantuko husk decks or golgari control). If you draw into hydrolash but not your fog/skaab engine, a 1/1 body on the board can easily extend your clock by a turn. On the other hand, I did win a game at 1hp by skaab'ing an inspiration to mill the opponent's final card, and it can be nice to have instant speed draw.

I just feel like having the body on the board and having something useful to play turn 2 smooths out a lot of early game bumps.

It's a tough call, that's why I said I must test if the deck needs the Visionaries to smooth out the early game. I won't miss the body too much, there are lots of cheap options against fatties already and a lot of my opponents get impatient with their removal at some point and just kill the Visionaries before they can block something big. Of course that's at least a waste of mana/time on their side, but I assume they only do that when they don't have any other plays. What I'll miss is the turn 2 draw, when I don't have Vials or Telling Time in hand.

Inspiration is the much better topdeck though. It mills twice and digs deeper to find answers or even more card draw.



Interesting kind of card draw, but I think it's too complicated and relies on too many pieces. The Elemental Bond does nothing on it's own and neither does Esperzoa. If they kill the Esperzoa, the combo is toast too and you played 2 cards for a single cantrip. I see some potential when it does work as intended, but I'm afraid this will be too slow and unreliable.

I dismissed Spy Network for similar reasons. Even if you have a Vial out, which is by no means guaranteed, the Network does nothing the turn you play it AND the turn after (except provide a chump blocker). That's too slow for my taste.

Ok, after some really bad games I'm pretty sure that cutting the Elvish Visionary is indeed a bad idea. It does so many little things for this deck you only notice when they're gone. You need this guy to guarantee that you have something to do before turn 3. Then he helps to go through your deck a lot faster and equally important, he helps to use your mana efficiently - you can squeeze him in where you can't fit in a 3-4 cmc draw card. The synergy with the Wave is useful to get more draw and clear the board simultaneously. Sometimes the Elves even kill off some weenies for free, when you double-/triple-block and Hydrolash.

I left the original deck almost untouched and made two little changes for now: I went down to 24 lands and cut 1 Possessed Skaab to make room for a third Disperse and a single Reclamation Sage. You don't wanna see the Skaab too early and multiples in your hand are not the most exciting thing. I think 2 is enough. With all the 2-drop cantrips back in the deck, I think 24 lands are enough. The Sage helps in the control matchups and you can always find a good use for Disperse. Playing 4 of these is not a bad thing, but I had multiples in my hand a few times and would've preferred something proactive. I don't think it's worth cutting a Visionary for the 4th copy.

So I like cutting the 3rd Skaab and the 25th land, plus I cut Disciple out after playing with her for a bit. That leaves me with three slots and I was wondering if you had thought about Runed Servitor at all? It's another two-drop artifact to enable Artificer's Epiphany, it can kill something, and it draws you a card when it dies (triggering Sphinx's Tutelage) while also "milling" them for one card. It's also a colorless two-drop in a three-color deck. Seems like a natural fit, IMO.

Nice!

Edit: Actually, Sevitor for Visionary? It's a two or one combo. Mill one, draw one, mill 2+ more.

I have had no real issues ditching the visionaries.

Since I went to -1 tutelage -1 wave -4 visionary + 1 disciple +1 jace and +2 reave soul +1 disperse with a reclamation sage tossed in for good luck; it transforms the deck a bit.


It is less focused, but it becomes even more of a control deck. Sure, Tutelage is nice if you draw it and even better if you got the disperse in hand when they sage it; but my variant will just keep on trucking even if it does get removed. Disciple has 22 non permanents to work with Nissa can ultimate due to skaabfogabuse, Jace has to be dealt with too.

BTW yallbesued for plagiarism Servitor in turbofog OHRLY.

I started out doing pretty well with this archetype, but I've fallen from rank 40 to rank 25 over the past 2 days playing it. I think I'm going to leave this one alone for now. Edit: Many (most?) of the losses were from misplays. It's a difficult deck to play correctly, and I don't think I quite have the right mindset for it. I don't think it's the deck's fault.

I thought about Servitor, but one thing I don't like about it is that I can't control when it dies. At the beginning of the game it's great, because you can just throw it under the next best attacker whenever you want. It's way worse as a topdeck later on, as it doesn't draw immediately. Once you need fog every turn to survive, it even becomes hard to have it killed in combat.


I guess it's not the easiest deck to play. You need to know when to take a hit to save your spells, what to use in each situation and what to expect from your opponent. Against Gruul you might wanna save a Disperse for Chandra's Ignition for example, while it's ok to use it on Skaab to return card draw or more fog against other decks. Browse their graveyard for information from time to time.

@gegliosch mind if I call you geg? don't know if you watch mobius but here it is

This is my first deck build attempt as I'm somewhat new to magic . I really like a control play style from other card games i play primarily hearthstone so here's what i came up with

1 x Bone Splinters
3 x Perilous Myr
1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3 x Elvish Visionary
2 x Telling Time
4 x Reave Soul
3 x Jorubai Murk Lurker
1 x Liliana, Heretical Healer
3 x Fleshbag Marauder
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 x Reclamation Sage
2 x Read the Bones
1 x Erebos's Titan
2 x Languish
2 x Bitter Revelation
1 x Disciple of the Ring
2 x Cruel Revival
3 x Necromantic Summons
4 x Island
6 x Swamp
4 x Forest
2 x Woodland Cemetery
2 x Drowned Catacomb
2 x Hinterland Harbor
2 x Dimir Guildgate
2 x Golgari Guildgate


I'm not too sure on the land distribution but it's been winning lots of games

I'm used to people abbreviating the name, apparently it's kinda hard to pronounce in English

I visit Mobius' channel from time to time, but I didn't see this vid, so thanks for the link. I think he did a good job with the deck, even though he went 1-2. Mana screw just happens and this deck can punish you hard for misplays, but that's the fun part, isn't it?

The changes he made to the deck are solid. Actually he almost went back to my original version with the 2 Countermands. I just didn't have the 2 Disperse at that time and ran Jace plus a second Displacement Wave instead.

The 2 interesting choices here are 2 Countermand over the other 2 Disperse and dropping Nissa. I think he's absolutely right that you don't need Nissa as a second win condition. However, she provides a land/card every turn and the deck makes very good use of both. You always make it to 7+ lands with this deck (mana screw aside), so I don't see a reason to forgo additional fuel.

Countermand is a very good card, but the highest priority targets for counterspells are enchantment removal and burn, namely Ravaging Blaze and Chandra's Ignition. Disperse deals with the same threats for half the mana, that's why we made this change in the first place. It's hard to keep 4 mana open all the time, especially if you want to use the Tutelage loot. Another advantage is that it deals with threats on the board, of course. However, Countermand still has it's moments, as it can also deal with a Twin Bolt to the face, Lifeloss-Elves, Chandra's Parents and other nasties. The mill is a welcome side effect. Maybe a 2-2 split between Disperse and Countermand is indeed a good idea. I think this is meta dependent and also up to personal taste - there will always be situations where one is better than the other, but both are able to deal with the most dangerous threats that are not covered by Fog.

24 or 25 land... really hard to say. I think 24 is fine with all the draw, but you do need to hit your first 5-6 landdrops reliably and having one extra might make the difference. I change my opinion on this topic from game to game, depending on which way I got **** this time

Looks very good for your first deck, maybe you could teach some of the guys posting their 100th turd
Land should be fine, as far as I can tell without testing.