Sorry for the double post!

So, aggro vs control talk made me analyze our pool and think about what is more important for the current MBC - to lay all the tools you might need later (Shadows of the Past, Perilous Myr to combo with Bone Splinters or Fleshbag Marauder) or to create a table prescense from the very start to protect from the early Wx or Rx aggro (not enogh ways to gain the life so losing these 5 in two turns can ruin your victory). I mean, yeah, gloriuos Languish can save us from it but we need to 1) draw it and 2) survive till T4 to cast it. Cheap removal (Bone Splinters, Reave Soul) is great but might not be enough to stop the early pressure.

After thinking of this I decided to go back to the low-cmc black creatures that I disregarded in later builds - Thornbow Archer, Shambling Ghoul and Gurmag Swiftwing. Taking them means cutting our draw and/or removal tools, but I think that in aggro-friendly meta and deck wizard-build decks that designed to stay on the curve it might be more potent. Another downside of this switch is their uselessnes in sac means - we've got a ton of Myr after saccing him, but none from our 1-2cmc chaps. And we've got A LOT of saccing in this deck style.

What's you thoughts on that, guys? Is it perfect to cast Myrs and Shadows on first two turns or we better spend that time creating (and increasing the board prescense) with Thornbw Archer, Shambling Ghoul and/or Gurmag Swiftwing?

For MBC, I think Perilous Myr is a great early card for defense. It probably outclasses the other options except for specific situations (like, Shambling Ghoul vs an army of 2/2s, or Gurmag Swiftwing vs an army of 1/1s).
Thornbow Archer doesn't seem worth it. It's basically a 1/2 for 1 mana with an irrelevant upside (for MBC).

Shadows of the Past should generate enough value to merit casting on T2. However, against extremely aggressive decks that curve out well ('God hand'), you might be wiser to instead cast a Reave Soul or Perilous Myr.

I'm very curious if Bone Splinters is good enough, and in what quantity, for MBC since it's card disadvantage. It combos well with Perilous Myr most of the time, but apart from that we don't have that much stuff that we're happy to sacrifice. I'd love to be able to test it, but I can't yet

Thanks for your thoughts on that topic!

Regarding the Splinters. You have advantage if you sac: 1) Myrs, 2) Deadbridge Shaman, 2) Priest of The Blood Rite (before he bites you) or literally anybody if you have Liliana on the table and have 1 spare mana left. Because I think you better activate a Planeswalker as fast as possible.

I'm currently planning to run 4 copies but might cut it to take some Ghouls instead.

You're welcome, I appreciate your input in this thread a lot

If you've used Bone Splinters + Myr/Deadbridge Shaman/Priest, you've technically only ''played even'' in most scenarios.
Some hypothetical scenarios:
-Suppose your opponent has a 4/4 and a 2/2. You have a Myr and sac it to use Bone Splinters. You've traded 2 cards for 2 cards.
-Suppose your opponent has a 4/4 and 1 card in hand. You have a Deadbridge Shaman and sac it to use Bone Splinters. You've traded 2 cards for 2 cards.
-Suppose your opponent has a 4/4. You have a Priest plus the 5/5 Demon token (=1 card), and you sac the Priest to use Bone Splinters. You did get rid of your lifedraining 2/2 Priest, which you could consider as an upside. Not sure if this is card advantage, disadvantage or playing par.

Maybe I'm too busy looking at the inherent card disadvantage to realize how valuable a 1cmc kill spell really is in this format. It could be a strong option if your deck has a lot of sac fodder in it. I wonder though, how often will it sit dead in your hand because you don't have anything to sac? Counting 4 Perilous Myr, 4 Deadbridge Shaman, and 2 Priests we have 10 viable sac-creatures. Is that enough?

Thanks for the kind words!

Totally agree on your calculations. And most probably you'll also run Fleshbag too, which means 7 sac cards and 10 sac-valuable creatures at maximum... Then again, we've got Lili, Gravedigger, Corpse Hauler and Necromantic Summons for some GY recursion so that might help. Like: sac Myr - kill creature & do 2 damage - bring him back and cast again. Not sure is it worth it though

Another subtle bonus of Splinters is that they can be cast fairly early and work like an activator for Spell Mastery of other cards.

This is an interesting topic indeed and I think that some playtesting will answer most of the questions.

The ability to cast and flip Liliana for 4 mana is enticing

I wonder if Undead Servant could be okay for MBC. The first one is very underwhelming, but the second one is very strong, never even mind the third or fourth one. Bitter Revelation also plays well with it. Maybe it's too slow, maybe the incremental advantage is worth it?

Btw Lexxx20, what do you think would be the best colour to add to (M~)BC? Just curious .

I was watching a Channel Fireball video and Caleb Durward brought up a sweet interaction between any Sacrifice Outlet and Undead Servant. Basically, you can cast the Servant and then after resolution, during the trigger activation, you can sacrifice it in response to get the 2/2 zombie token and a +2/+2 'pump' on Nantuko Husk.

Servant's an interesting topic worth discussing.

Thing is you're not using to full potential if you're running only 2 or 3 copies. And I just don't know what to cut to fit all 4. We can't cut any heavies like Priests or Kothopeds and can't risk to cut any 2 and 3 cmcs because I feel like they'll become MVPs of this archetype, letting us survive till the late game. Cutting a couple of Deadbridge Shamans is okay, but that's not enough. Cutting a spell base is pretty dangerous for control too. Also, this mean flooding the 4cmc spot which is fairly light (to me) at the moment: you'll want at least 2 Revelations, 4 Servants, at least 1 Languish and I don't think you'll want to miss out on that sweet Erebos's Titan.

I agree that he has a beautiful synergy with Lili and Bitter Revelation and you usually pretty happy with losing it to removal and/or sweeper but he's a little too unreliable for me. Will certainly consider testing him though!

Now, regarding the second color. I actually have an unusual taste when it comes to adding colors to my black For 2 colors I usually prefer Dimir (to increase the draw, discard and add counter-spells and bounces) and for 3 Jund (ramp and draw from green, more flexible removal and burn from red). For some reason Golgari and Rakdos never appealed to me in past but this year I feel like a little splash of or might actually be worth it.

Green has Gatecreeper Vine that I'm fond of and a beautiful Evolutionary Leap (one of the most interesting cards of this year, IMHO) which has synergy with our saccing effects (Lili, Shadows of the Past) and can swap any creature targeted with removal to another one just for . This and Gaea's Revenge, of course. Most scary bomb for now!

Red has plenty of cheap instant removal (Twin Bolt is a favorite of mine, allowing plenty of combat tricks, Fiery Conclusion is also cool for its sac effect, another Liliana's enabler for 2 mana!) and burn which I lack in this year's black (god, I loved Corrupt). Also, Dragon Fodder to use as sac targets.

So, in conclusion, I think , and are all equally interesting to add to with probably looking the most promising.

That Undead Servant + sac outlet interaction is pretty cool!


Thanks for your answer, Lexxx. Green does look strong with Gaea's Revenge and Evolutionary Leap. Also, enchantment removal.
In BR I'd actually consider using Nightfire Giant. It's a decent sized creature with built in shocks and you can recur it with Cruel Revival.

Totally missed the Zombie part, thanks He's cool but if you're running you probably have better ways to to 2 damage than spend to 5 mana on it It depends on your suit of removal, I think. The fact that he doesn't tap for that and has pretty easy color requirement makes it better though.

A deck for Zombies
60 Cards. 36 nonlands (16 creatures, 20 spells). 24 Lands (21 ; and 3 others).

Creature 16
-- 3x Gurmag Swiftwing
-- 4x Shambling Ghoul
-- 3x Fleshbag Marauder
-- 1x Liliana, Heretical Healer
-- 4x Undead Servant
-- 1x Erebos's Titan

Spell 20
-- 4x Bone Splinters
-- 4x Reave Soul
-- 3x Shadows of the Past
-- 4x Read the Bones
-- 2x Languish
-- 3x Cruel Revival

Land 24
-- 3x Foundry of the Consuls
-- 21x Swamp

Why no Gravedigger? I don't think there's enough fodder for Bone Splinters in your list. Thematically, Rise from the Grave would fit too.

Cruel Revival = Gravedigger + removal at instant speed.

I included Foundry of the Consuls and Undead Servant to help power Bone Splinters.

Hey guys,

Here is my take on a Mono black Elves deck for something different from the standard Golgari Elves which seems to be everywhere at the moment.
Feedback and suggestions welcome


Elvish Assassins

1 Drops
4x Thornbow Archer

2 Drops
2x Scarred Vinebreeder
4x Reave Soul

3 Drops
1x Liliana, Heretical Healer
3x Lys Alana Scarblade
2x Fleshbag Marauder
4x Deadbridge Shaman
4x Eyeblight Assassin
3x Read the Bones

4 Drops
2x Gravedigger
1x Languish

5 Drops
2x Gilt-Leaf Winnower
3x Cruel Revival

6 Drops
1x Kothophed, Soul Hoarder


This deck has kinda been designed for throwing away your elves so that is one of the main and harder choices you have to make when playing this deck but Gravedigger has been included for that reason so you can pull back the elves you might need after throwing them away.

Scarred Vinebreeder and Lys Alana Scarblade are an awesome duo to have as you can use the Vinebreeder block, then Scarblade to throw away a elf and give -x/x to the attacker and then pump the Vinebreeder with the elf you just threw away to take down much larger creatures and a lot of opponents won't be expecting it so you can pick up easy kills on much larger creatures using them together.

The Eyeblight assassin can be a good card to get kills with after a baited block or just to get rid of a 1 toughness creatures and a 2/2 body on the field.

If you do enjoy playing elves I'd say give this a go as it's a fun and very different way to play them compared to the usual Golgari Elves decks which are so plentiful in the current meta and can hold its own vs them and other decks quite well.

IMO, by cutting either G or B from the Elves-themed deck you making a mistake - both will result in losing an access to the cards that will strengthen your deck one way or another. You call Scarblade awesome and run 3 copies of it but without Dwynen's Elite and/or Lys Alana Huntmaster you lose a lot of impact that tokens can add to its ability. Not running a lord in Elves-themed deck is also a mistake in my book. I mean, why don't make all these 1/1 stronger AND gain life swinging with them in the same time? Shaman of the Pack is such a strong win condition for an Elves-themed deck that it shouldn't even be mentioned.

So, this is my opinion - mono-B or mono-G elves are inferior to the BG elves. I don't see how this build can hold its own vs well-built Golgari elves. GB will easily outrun it with plentiful of tokens and lords.

In cutting G or B from an Elves themed deck you can also gain a lot in other areas. Like I said I've made this a control based elves deck and I've put in a lot of removal to compensate for not being 10 elves wide and pumped. In the G/B version you can SLIGHTLY tweak it towards being control but it will still basically be a deck where you get out ya lord and flood the board.

I was wondering how you were meaning you lose a lot of impact not having the tokens?
I know they can make your board wider so you can make the -x/-x bigger but most times in an elf deck people just completely disregard having the Scarblade because of not wanting to throw away the elves as they want to be constantly filling the board with elves, I've made it so I don't have to play this deck in that way and can reliably throw away and bring back elves, which is another thing that will normally not be possibly in a G/B elves deck.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this deck is better than the Golgari elves decks and that it will change the meta completely for elves, I'm saying this is a different style of elf deck and it can hold its own Vs standard Golgari elves decks out there because of all the removal. I've played a lot of games with this deck and I think vs Golgari Elves its pretty much been a 50/50 split vs them.

Well, currently I'm running more of a control-ish version of GB Elves with Languish, Gravediggers, Vindebreeders and Scarblades. I too love Scarblade + Veinbreeder + Gravedigger combo but additionaly I run Shamans of the Pack for the final punch in the face, Huntmaster to generate tokens, Archers to kill the fliers and lords to strengthen all of my creatures. I mean, you can keep G, the most useful G elves and still build a control-ish deck

I don't see people disregarding the Scarblade too often, at least on Steam. People usually don't underesitmate them and sometimes kill them instead of other, more dangerous elves. The same with Vinebreeders.

I have nothing against the "different style of" decks, it's just my opinion that in that case cutting a color hurts you more than helps. It's fine that you disagree with it

Oh you play on Steam as well? Do you play as Lexx? I had a game tonight vs a Lexx about an hour ago or so.

Yeah you are right there that it can hurt a bit, especially since they have pretty much designed Origins to be G/B elves, but I like to try and come up with different builds compared the cookie cutter builds that most people run out there and this is just something I cooked up which is working alright. Like its defos not a top tier deck but it does the job and is quite fun to play with ya elves being more like a small group of efficient killers instead of a massive overwhelming force army

Yup, I'm on Steam as Lexxx20 but it couldn't be me - I'm at work for the last 7 or 8 hours

I like to experiment too, so I hear ya

Hello,

I've been trying all sorts of black decks and finally made one I consistently win with at rank 40. Here it is, hope you enjoy.

"An Offering to Erebos" - Mono Black Artifact

Creatures: 23
4x Perilous Myr
2x Despoiler of Souls
3x Bottle Gnomes
1x Liliana, Heretical Healer
2x Graveblade Marauder
3x Fleshbag Marauder
1x Erebos's Titan
3x Gravedigger
2x Priest of the Blood Rite
2x Gilt-Leaf Winnower

Spells: 15
4x Reave Soul
4x Read the Bones
2x Languish
2x Bitter Revelation
3x Cruel Revival

Lands: 22
18x Swamp
2x Foundry of the Consuls
2x Rogue's Passage


The deck is pretty straight forward in what it does, destroys creatures and builds card advange by using your graveyard and 2 for 1ing your opponent. Your aim is to survive until you can get your big guys down and can start laying a beating. Perilous Myr and Bottle Gnomes, the only artifacts in the deck, are here for just that. Perilous Myr trades favorably vs pretty much everything early game. Bottle Gnomes is great multi-purposed card, they provide a blocker vs aggro which is usually red with many 1 health attackers, sac'd to activate Liliana, Heretical Healer turn 4, healing to offset the health cost of your draw, and just good ol' chump block/sacrifice.

And now for a bit of card analysis,

*Despoiler of Souls - At first sight this card might not look too appealing especially with the abundance of Twin Bolt in the current meta. This card is just to help pressure early game and force your opponent into dealing with it or they just take 3 every turn which we're okay with. Also can be brought back forcing more resources out of your opponent many times throughout games.

*Graveblade Marauder - One of the better black rares in the set IMO. Another multi-purposed card, great for defending and being a true terror late game especially with Rogue's Passage.

*Fleshbag Marauder - This card is great for what's available. Although this card can be a bit less effective vs aggro, it still has synergy with multiple cards in the deck and of course great vs control match ups.

*Erebos's Titan - Mythic, if you drop him turn 4 you almost always win. Even if they remove him it's not the last they'll see of him that game. Usually trades 2 for 1 or better in games he sees play.

*Gravedigger - Pretty much all our creatures in the deck are awesome so heck yeah let's get them back! More graveyard value.

*Priest of the Blood Rite - Your biggest threat in the deck. Not many options here but very necessary to have. You can sacrifice the 2/2 body with Fleshbag Marauder and is a great Gravedigger target.

*Gilt-Leaf Winnower - I find this card to be one of the stronger rares in the game currently. More 2 for 1s and has a decent body with menace.

*Reave Soul - Decent cheap removal for the meta, wish it was instant speed but oh well. It serves its purpose nonetheless.

*Read the Bones - IMO the best draw in the game, 4 should be in every mono black deck.

*Languish - Yay, board clear. Another necessary card for any black deck. Also sorta has synergy with a few things: Priest of the Blood Rite and Erebos's Titan survive it. Bottle Gnomes can be sac'd before and Perilous Myr can be used in conjunction to remove things with more than 4 toughness.

*Bitter Revelation - Just a bit more draw with added graveyard synergy.

*Cruel Revival - Thank the lord, instant speed removal with zombie synergy for Fleshbag Marauder and Gravedigger. Easy choice.

*Liliana, Heretical Healer - Last but not least, Liliana. Pretty much good anytime you draw her, even if you just play her as a 2/3 lifelink. Bottle Gnomes and Fleshbag Marauder can be used to flip her and do amazing things with her coin.

The Lands are lands, yep.

Feel free to comment.