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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:38 am 
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Whoohoo!
Go town.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:40 am 
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I used the ability on D3. I was mindslaved by Mown though into someone else. Possibly, as fel hypothesized, someone of the mafia alignment.

And mafia totally misplayed by going ham rather than taking it slow and steady. Netting not one but two scum in what happened after D2 hurt. And I'm town.


We had a break down of everyone's roles thanks to your genius. Except Hello World, who we killed immediately. It was totally unreasonable to account for the fact the investigator was also a voteblocker, role blocker and immune to NKs.

We lost, yeah. But stop pretending like there was some massive oversight we missed.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:43 am 
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Oh, Im dying to know what happened with numbers. What was the win con there? What did the day 1 scrambleverse do to trigger your wincon?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:46 am 
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What about sharazad? Going by the card effect That was pretty high in the list of effects that could stop you.

Also killing me after giving me a whole night phase to use my power was a bit reckless.

And rubik had two abilities on the card, so expecting him to be some sort of jack of all trades with a total of 2 or 3 abilities that he could use once eack wasn't that farfetched.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:50 am 
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We drained sharazad of all charges the first night or something, I dont remember. It was early.

We didnt exactly have a choice HW, you werent there Day 1 to lynch, and we killed you first night :P


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:51 am 
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Wait no we didnt. Either way, we took you off the table fairly quicky. And mafia is usually a game of unknowns.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:53 am 
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You could have lynched me D2.

Also I have edited the post above.


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 Post subject: FULL Design File
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:55 am 
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Here's the full design file on the game:
Zinger2099 wrote:
Roles (In no particular order)

There's a few rules that aren't explicitly stated in the main roles. These rules aren't exactly secret, and can be freely told to players, they just aren't openly displayed. Those rules are:
1. Players can queue up abilities for phases in which they believe they might miss for some reason.
2. Day abilities happen instantly. Night abilities happen at the end of the phase (Exception: Taniwha).
3. Players can only use one ability per Day or Night phase.
4. If the order of abilities used at Night ever becomes important: kill abilities always happen last, roleblock abilities always happens first.
5. Players can go over the max number of uses for their abilities (Example: Birthing Pod).
6. Generally, if a player uses an ability but selects an invalid Target, the ability is not wasted. If on the other hand a player uses an ability and something blocks them (Example: Roleblocker), the use is expended. I don't inform players if they've been Roleblocked.
7. If a player is almost killed, but is saved by a Doctor, I tell them.


I'll post my thoughts on the game, some MVPs, and discuss 15377's quick win in another post when I have time later today.

Good game all! :party:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:29 am 
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I tried to use my ability N1 on myself but was quickly told that that wasn't actually a valid target.

That's why I didn't just target myself.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:09 am 
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Figured the gamble was either make it or break it.
From what we knew, I figured that the chances were good enough.
Not surprised the game didn't last when it failed.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:49 am 
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The biggest mistake mafia made was, after suspecting that you could store up actions, not using that knowledge, or at the very least suspicion of it, to save one of either storyteller or Elijin.
You know, instead of claiming my theories as incompetent.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:00 am 
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Post game thoughts:

For anybody that didn't dive into the full design Zinger posted, or just hasn't yet, my win con was simply to have expended all my active abilities or survive until game end. When scrambleverse jumbled the board it shifted onto me with it's one use already spent, completing my win condition. It was hilarious and yet extremely boring all at the same time.

On Skyshroud Elf, while I think the take of the Elvish Swiss Army Knife was interesting in the multiple abilities and the win con was rather fun, I think with Scrambleverse being on the board, the card should have been kept a lot lower in power. Less power roles, more redirection and transformative powers.

On scrambleverse, I don't see why people are complaining about the effects of this card. To capture the spirit of the card you really only have a couple of options, jumble roles or jumble alignments. Somehow I think jumbling alignments would have really pissed some people off if it was used late game. I think the role was designed with the right intent, although I would have changed some of the effects (namely it hitting non-permanents and I probably would have excluded a phased out Taniwha too).

On Taniwha, while I can see from a design perspective why you would decide to have the player subject to non-targetive abilities when he's phased out, given how the rest of the role functions it just doesn't quite jive. Then again, neither does letting Taniwha continue to talk when he's phased out. But given the taboos on silent roles I can see why you wouldn't simply shunt a player out of the game for days at a time. I think a rewording on the phasing ability could have created the same effect, but resolved the questions surrounding being phased out. (something along the lines of on even days and nights you cannot use any abilities, cannot be the target of abilities, cannot vote, cannot be voted for, and do not count towards the majority threshold).

On Thalid and Mindslaver, because of the rule Zinger established before the game of invalid targets not expending abilities, when Mindslaver redirected Thalid to a non-town role, because his ability didn't expend, neither did his counters. As for the second half of the Mindslaver role, originally I was going to allow Thalid's votes to go through but I couldn't wrap my head around negating the second half of the ability just because the only valid target was dead (making them also an invalid target), so last minute I decided to take it as a full vote block.

I think that's pretty much it on role issues. Game play wise Mafia's only real major issue was being too hasty. I told Zinger before I had knowledge of the other roles of the game that I didn't disagree with mafia's decision to try to control the lynch with Pit and being outted in doing so, but I disagreed with their timing. It was much too early for such a play since they couldn't have knowledge of the ins and outs of the roles that early in the game. Conversely I felt Alt played a much too safe game, seemingly too afraid to take any chances even at the end of the game when it was apparent town was massively in control.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:18 am 
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I agree that mafia made a mistake with doing the quick lynch so soon. I think now I've done it all with 'catching' two mafiates by being lynched :P
It was an alright play, but should've been saved for a later day, or at least a later time at that day (by 'accident'). How they saved each other at the end of D1 was already raising a few eyebrows with me, but before I could say anything about it they did it against me and showed it to everyone.

The part about the open setup also kinda screwed mafia I think. The killing roles were known. Their owner was known by 1 (razor), there was a cop and someone who could give the cop more investigations.
There were too many roles to kill and too few ways to do it.
The moment someone died overnight that was not discussed with the town, it would've been pretty obvious who that was and he could be put to the test / be lynched. Which happened at the end.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:22 am 
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I was saving my NK for, and fully expcting, a Rubik (or a KOD) betrayal. Sure it might have dragged the game on, but keeping that ability open was a safety measure.
I was playing defensively, because everyone was too eager to do the obvious. I just wanted time to think, but I kept getting rather rudely reprimanded.
Nobody was confirmed town to me; NeoSilk was the closest thing to be town in my eyes but that wasn't until after I realized that my ability never targeted. I thought Mown was as well, until he actually voted for me D3. I would've expepcted him to give more of a fuss if he were town, something like asking why I thought he was town, or saying that I shouldn't trust him without proof. I dunno what I was looknig for, but he didn't do it.

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CKY: Through a convoluted series of events involving three tons of garden gnomes and a pickup truck, Henderson’s Magikarp defeats the Deoxys terrorizing the city.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 11:58 am 
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Everyone keeps saying we jumped too early....

None of you are considering how pit lord worked. If there was a no lynch, I died. At 5 hours left in day 1 and well past my bedtime to continue watching the thread, there was no majority. I had to tip my hand, or risk dying to my own card conditions. There was no way for me to be sure enough players would be on in that 5 hours to secure a lynch (Sure, a true majority wass reached, but hindsight is 20/20). At that point we also didnt know how Zinger would display the votecount, and were hoping I could go by unnoticed. He stopped the votecount at the majority, and this wasnt the case.

Once my hand was tipped, it was use it or lose it. You can make all sorts of 'You shouldnt have done it' arguments, but ultimately we all know how paranoid the key players here are, and there's no reason I would have survived another day with a vote power like that. Not to mention once my ability was in the open like that, it was essentially a sure thing that Rubik would investigate me and turn up scum. We took a NK shot at Rubik N1. He came out standing, and that left me with no other play than to hammer and hope there was nothing silly. Our mistake was not accounting for how insanely OP the ex-neutral role was.

If it wasnt clear, I dont much mind that I didnt get revived by Thallid. It was a neat play on the role, and I tip my hat to Scar for not revealing it was town only, or that the revived player lacked their original power set. I do think it was lousy that the Mindslaver charge was spent, when the Thallid's was not.

@Hello World.
We knew your card name. It didnt present as threatening, compared to the known investigator, and the ability to refresh people's charges. And its a moot point anyway, since your card functioned from the GY.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:02 pm 
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@Elijin:

I knew you would die if there was no lynch D1. I said it multiple times that there would never be a NL day 1, because the one with the L-1 role would die and I would not have minded that at all.
Your second paragraph is exactly what I was going to do D2 if you didn't kill me.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:05 pm 
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I think it would've been better to just come out with it. It would've kept you alive for quite some time.
It would've been the other risky play against what you did now. I don't think there was a best way here. I think the timing in D2 was just too soon.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:08 pm 
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There just wasnt a way to play in the open with it while Rubik had daytime investigation powers. And since Rubik was apparently immune to NK several times, that compounds to 'There just wasnt a way to play in the open with it'


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:11 pm 
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Yeah, your best bet was to make Rubik go towards other people and attempt to locate Pod ASAP and take him out.
I'm 90% sure Rubik did claim that the investigations were limited. So if you could get rid of Pod, it was just the 1 day that you had to survive without being investigated.

I think most people would just ask you not to vote in D2 unless a target was found. I don't think you were in the spotlights D1, right?
It's been a while and I forgot some stuff :P

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:12 pm 
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And yeah, I know, I was Pod. But still >_>

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