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PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:17 pm 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
I have been looking to build a planeswalker-focused control deck so I finally got around to that this morning. Nissa is one of the best control win conditions in the game, and black has an excellent suite of removal and card draw so I built it in Golgari colors. Liliana is also an excellent control card so we get to play her, too. My deck is quite different than the Beast/Lockhammer deck but is pretty close to what Rattleclaw posted. After about 10 games of messing around, here's where I am:

4 x Golgari Guildgate
2 x Woodland Cemetery
1 x Foundry of the Consuls
9 x Swamp
8 x Forest

1 x Bone Splinters

4 x Perilous Myr
4 x Gatecreeper Vine
4 x Elvish Visionary
2 x Shadows of the Past
2 x Evolutionary Leap
4 x Reave Soul

1 x Liliana, Heretical Healer
3 x Fleshbag Marauder
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 x Reclamation Sage

1 x Gravedigger
2 x Languish
3 x Bitter Revelation

2 x Cruel Revival

1 x Woodland Bellower


Some thoughts on the choices:

Foundry of the Consuls - We're playing a two-color deck with Gatecreeper Vines so I think one of these is basically an auto-include. It's probably correct to play two but I don't want to sacrifice too many of my lands. These little fliers can get at opposing Planeswalkers (since we have no way to deal with flipped 'Walkers outside of combat), they can chump block, and they can let us draw cards through Evolutionary Leap.

Bone Splinters - This deck is running 20 creatures so we should always have something available to sac to it. I don't want to play too many copies of this thing because I would much rather sacrifice my creatures to Evolutionary Leap, but sometimes you just gotta kill something and this has no restrictions on what it can hit, unlike my other removal spells.

Perilous Myr - A great card for a control deck looking to buy time and a great card to sacrifice to Evolutionary Leap.

Gatecreeper Vine - This card replaces itself and ensures we don't miss any early land drops. Once we've done that we just sacrifice it to Evolutionary Leap to find our Planeswalkers or kill something via Bone Splinters.

Elvish Visionary - Much the same as Gatecreeper, this card replaces itself and is great sacrifice fodder.

Shadows of the Past - I'm running both copies because it is a core card in this deck. The scry is great because stuff is always dying and this is also our backup win condition. We can scry away the extra copy, discard it to Liliana if we want to, or replay it in the event someone blows it up. With 20 creatures and Evolutionary Leap in the deck, the activated ability will always be on.

Evolutionary Leap - The core engine of the deck, so we're playing both. This card keeps us ahead of our opponents in the card advantage game and cycles through the deck to find our Planeswalkers. It also lets us flip Liliana immediately. Amazing card.

Reave Soul - The format's standard removal spell, kills a large percentage of the creatures in the format for just two mana. Not much else to say.

Liliana, Heretical Healer - We can flip this gal very easily and she's well worth it. Her +2 is really good and we don't mind discarding because we often have plenty of cards in hand. And even though we're playing control, we still have a large package of utility creatures so her -X can help us get those back and just grind out the game once the +2 has done its job. She can even get back our Nissa if we managed to lose it. Her ultimate is strong, but I haven't found it necessary yet.

Fleshbag Marauder - It's an edict in a deck stocked with removal, it's obviously great. If you have no creatures on board you can sacrifice this to your Evo Leap before its own trigger resolves and you will draw a card, which is amazing. Then we get to recur it with Cruel Revival and do it all over again.

Nissa, Vastwood Seer - The deck's primary win condition. Her ultimate wins the game on the spot and her +1 is awesome. You'll rarely make a token, but hey, you can.

Reclamation Sage - We need to have some answer to non-land permanents so a cheap creature that we can find and recycle with Evo Leap is the obvious choice. A nice target for Liliana's -X.

Gravedigger - Lets us get back anything we sacrificed early to use again. Then when it dies we can get it back through Cruel Revival or Liliana's -X and do it all over again.

Languish - Sometimes you just gotta clear the board and this does the trick. Fleshbag cleans up the stragglers.

Bitter Revelation - We don't need much extra card draw in this deck, but digging deep to find pieces like Evo Leap and Planeswalkers is pretty strong if you don't draw into them fairly early. We have some lifegain available through Shadows of the Past to offset the loss.

Cruel Revival - Almost unconditional removal but it costs five mana so I don't want to play all three. We have four utility zombies in the deck, so we can usually get good value out of this card.

Woodland Bellower - This guy is pretty much just the second copy of Reclamation Sage. If we can't (or don't want) to fetch the Sage he brings along a Visionary friend so we can draw a card, sacrifice the Elf to Evo Leap, and draw another. Pretty good value. He also has a decent-sized body that lives through Languish, so there will be times where you just kill your opponent's stuff and beat them in the face with this.


Hey Hakeem I am loving how smoothly this deck runs and I consistently empty my deck out to bout 10-15 cards remaining when I finish my opponent still on 40+ cards. I'd have only expected this out of blue, but Evolutionary Leap truely is sick. I have one thought you may consider after running this deck several times. I get that Shadows of the Past is great for when the deck maybe is having trouble finding key cards but most of the time I find this deck runs too good without this particular card becoming a factor. Shoot, half the time Bitter Revelation doesn't hardly come into play but understand you need it to dig. With all this being said I have mostly played AI who rarely ever tries to disrupt evolutionary leap and I believe human opponents (more and more now than ever) are realizing you have to pack enchantment/artifact hate versus Tutelage, Leap, Conjuring or any other broken artifact enchantments you would lose if not dealt with. Perhaps, Shadows of the past is needed or maybe we could find even more ETB or LTB creatures that love to get sacked or just even add 2 more Bone Splinters for early game combos with Myr.

Could you imagine if we had Eternal Witness?? That card would take this deck to another level with the broken crap you could do.
Also, I just purposely won a game without using Evolutionary Leap to make sure this is not an achilles heal. He had Gaea's revenge and a bunch of other stuff, but the interaction with Liliana flipped with Fleshbag is superb.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:51 am 
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The deck is still in its infancy, but using Evo Leap to dig for PWers along with Shadows of the Past to find them faster is pretty sweet. I'm sure the list has room for improvement but the core is solid and it looks like a strong archetype.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:26 am 
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So here is the black/green deck I'm using with pretty good success. Albeit, I'm new to Magic so it could probably use some efficiency changes.

Mana (24)
9 x Forest
9 x Swamp
2 x Woodland Cemetery
4 x Evolving Wilds

Creatures (14)
1x Liliana, Heretic Healer
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1x Erebos Titan
1x Kothoped, Soul Hoarder (I had two of these, but I found the life loss made it so I never used more than one and often killed my own)
2x Gilt Leaf Winnower (Still on the fence about this card. I like the stats, but the 2 swamps and restricted removal are iffy)
2x Outland Colossus (I really like this card, yet I have never once got it renowned. I usually finish before I draw him for some reason.)
2x Gaea's Revenge (This is the god among cards in my opinion. The idea is to clear away mana and draw this card pronto.)
4 x Gatekeeper Vine (This is the first and smallest creature you have. I really want it in my opening hand.)

Instants (3)
1 x Unholy Hunger
2 x Flesh to Dust (These two are just for removing strong foes. I would probably rather have more Unholy Hunger, but I don't have'em yet)

Enchantments (5)
3 x Zendikar's Roil (The faster you can get this out the better.)
2 x Evolutionary Leap (Creature about to die? Evolve that mofo. Zendikar give you some tokens? Evolve them. As you can see from the creatures above, pretty much any creature you get from using this ability will dominate the board if you have the mana to play it.)

Sorcery
2 x Animists Awakening (This is great to play with Zendikar on the field. Even better when you have 2 or 3 Zendikars out)
2 x Reave Soul (Early removal. I'm always changing the quantity, but I guess there's no real way to protect against everything. 2 seems useful)
2 x Read The Bones (This seems very useful, but much like Colossus, I never get to use it. Might change it with something like Wildsize or Elemental Bond)
1 x Languish (I need the 2nd one, but don't have it yet. Great for clearing the board before storming with Gaea's Revenge. Also, you can use it with pretty much any of your creatures and it won't kill them.)
3 x Mwuanvali's Acid Moss (I keep swapping this with Nissa's Pilgrimige. I don't know which one I'm going to keep yet.)
2 x Necromatic Summons (This is a great card. I used to have more, but not necessary. You can even bring back your Planeswalker if you used the flip side ultimate in a suicide. Like if you had nine life and used the -9 skill. It's also great for bringing back any strong cards of yours or there's. FYI, it's really fun to use it on the enemy Erebos Titan and then use your Erebos Titan's skill from the graveyard. LoL)
2 x Nissa's Revelation (A god among sorcery cards imo. Now with so few creatures in the deck it might seem like a bad idea, but by the time you play this card your deck might be as small as 24 cards while the opponent is still at 40. Or in those areas. Pick up a Gaea's Revenge with this card and you're in the clear.)


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:38 am 
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Your curve seems insanely high with little to no cheap removal. You need to remove about 6-10 cards that are over 5 mana for some 2 drops.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:41 am 
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Monk is right on that. You'd be losing to speed every time.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:47 am 
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Right. So do you think I should add more cheap removal or cheaper creatures? What do you think I should sacrifice in it's place? I did have some elf visionaries and also that elf that let you scry 2. I removed them because when I pulled them with Gaea's Revelation they didn't help much. I will look at some changes though. Thanks for the tips.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:59 am 
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Swap out two Animist's Awakening and a single Zendikar's Roil for three Nissa's Pilgrimage. Yeah it only fetches Forests but it means you can actually ramp into your larger creatures and it thins your deck out - which has the knock-on effect of making it that much more likely you draw into a big creature and actually hit something with Nissa's Revelation.

While you're at it swap out Gilt-Leaf Winnower for Rhox Maulers. Same cost, less mana restrictive, better stats (for revelation) and can get bigger quite easily.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:04 am 
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Swap out two Animist's Awakening and a single Zendikar's Roil for three Nissa's Pilgrimage. Yeah it only fetches Forests but it means you can actually ramp into your larger creatures and it thins your deck out - which has the knock-on effect of making it that much more likely you draw into a big creature and actually hit something with Nissa's Revelation.

While you're at it swap out Gilt-Leaf Winnower for Rhox Maulers. Same cost, less mana restrictive, better stats (for revelation) and can get bigger quite easily.


Thanks. I will definitely try something like this. Been on the fence about Rhox Maulers. They seem pretty good to me, but I couldn't really decide what to toss for it. I'll try it in place of Gilt-Leaf.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:28 am 
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Try working in Bone Splinter. With all those tokens, you have something to sac. I'd take out the Unholy Hunger and Flesh to Dust. That gets you 3 for spot removal and lowers the Curve. Sorcery speed isn't a problem with Green Ramp Blends.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:34 pm 
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Last edited by Hakeem928 on Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:27 pm 
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Why?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:41 pm 
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Why?


Because if you build it, they will play.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:23 pm 
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Why?


Because if you build it, they will play.


Speak for yourself! I ain't playing that garbage.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:14 am 
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Why?


Because if you build it, they will play.


Speak for yourself! I ain't playing that garbage.


I'm not down with elves anymore either.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:39 am 
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Yuck! Hakeem why you have to play those damn dirty elves!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:46 pm 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
I have been looking to build a planeswalker-focused control deck so I finally got around to that this morning. Nissa is one of the best control win conditions in the game, and black has an excellent suite of removal and card draw so I built it in Golgari colors. Liliana is also an excellent control card so we get to play her, too. My deck is quite different than the Beast/Lockhammer deck but is pretty close to what Rattleclaw posted. After about 10 games of messing around, here's where I am:

4 x Golgari Guildgate
2 x Woodland Cemetery
1 x Foundry of the Consuls
9 x Swamp
8 x Forest

1 x Bone Splinters

4 x Perilous Myr
4 x Gatecreeper Vine
4 x Elvish Visionary
2 x Shadows of the Past
2 x Evolutionary Leap
4 x Reave Soul

1 x Liliana, Heretical Healer
3 x Fleshbag Marauder
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 x Reclamation Sage

1 x Gravedigger
2 x Languish
3 x Bitter Revelation

2 x Cruel Revival

1 x Woodland Bellower


Some thoughts on the choices:

Foundry of the Consuls - We're playing a two-color deck with Gatecreeper Vines so I think one of these is basically an auto-include. It's probably correct to play two but I don't want to sacrifice too many of my lands. These little fliers can get at opposing Planeswalkers (since we have no way to deal with flipped 'Walkers outside of combat), they can chump block, and they can let us draw cards through Evolutionary Leap.

Bone Splinters - This deck is running 20 creatures so we should always have something available to sac to it. I don't want to play too many copies of this thing because I would much rather sacrifice my creatures to Evolutionary Leap, but sometimes you just gotta kill something and this has no restrictions on what it can hit, unlike my other removal spells.

Perilous Myr - A great card for a control deck looking to buy time and a great card to sacrifice to Evolutionary Leap.

Gatecreeper Vine - This card replaces itself and ensures we don't miss any early land drops. Once we've done that we just sacrifice it to Evolutionary Leap to find our Planeswalkers or kill something via Bone Splinters.

Elvish Visionary - Much the same as Gatecreeper, this card replaces itself and is great sacrifice fodder.

Shadows of the Past - I'm running both copies because it is a core card in this deck. The scry is great because stuff is always dying and this is also our backup win condition. We can scry away the extra copy, discard it to Liliana if we want to, or replay it in the event someone blows it up. With 20 creatures and Evolutionary Leap in the deck, the activated ability will always be on.

Evolutionary Leap - The core engine of the deck, so we're playing both. This card keeps us ahead of our opponents in the card advantage game and cycles through the deck to find our Planeswalkers. It also lets us flip Liliana immediately. Amazing card.

Reave Soul - The format's standard removal spell, kills a large percentage of the creatures in the format for just two mana. Not much else to say.

Liliana, Heretical Healer - We can flip this gal very easily and she's well worth it. Her +2 is really good and we don't mind discarding because we often have plenty of cards in hand. And even though we're playing control, we still have a large package of utility creatures so her -X can help us get those back and just grind out the game once the +2 has done its job. She can even get back our Nissa if we managed to lose it. Her ultimate is strong, but I haven't found it necessary yet.

Fleshbag Marauder - It's an edict in a deck stocked with removal, it's obviously great. If you have no creatures on board you can sacrifice this to your Evo Leap before its own trigger resolves and you will draw a card, which is amazing. Then we get to recur it with Cruel Revival and do it all over again.

Nissa, Vastwood Seer - The deck's primary win condition. Her ultimate wins the game on the spot and her +1 is awesome. You'll rarely make a token, but hey, you can.

Reclamation Sage - We need to have some answer to non-land permanents so a cheap creature that we can find and recycle with Evo Leap is the obvious choice. A nice target for Liliana's -X.

Gravedigger - Lets us get back anything we sacrificed early to use again. Then when it dies we can get it back through Cruel Revival or Liliana's -X and do it all over again.

Languish - Sometimes you just gotta clear the board and this does the trick. Fleshbag cleans up the stragglers.

Bitter Revelation - We don't need much extra card draw in this deck, but digging deep to find pieces like Evo Leap and Planeswalkers is pretty strong if you don't draw into them fairly early. We have some lifegain available through Shadows of the Past to offset the loss.

Cruel Revival - Almost unconditional removal but it costs five mana so I don't want to play all three. We have four utility zombies in the deck, so we can usually get good value out of this card.

Woodland Bellower - This guy is pretty much just the second copy of Reclamation Sage. If we can't (or don't want) to fetch the Sage he brings along a Visionary friend so we can draw a card, sacrifice the Elf to Evo Leap, and draw another. Pretty good value. He also has a decent-sized body that lives through Languish, so there will be times where you just kill your opponent's stuff and beat them in the face with this.


I'm playing this deck but changed one land for Gaea's Revenge. Its working really fine for now.

What do you think of this change?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:22 pm 
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Prowner wrote:

I'm playing this deck but changed one land for Gaea's Revenge. Its working really fine for now.

What do you think of this change?


Prowner,

I think that change is fantastic. Pretty much what I did with my Golgari Control (which I'll post below, although it is very similar to other lists):


4 X Golgari Guildgate
2 X Woodland Cemetery
10 X Swamp
7 X Forest

2 X Bone Splinters

4 X Perilous Myr
4 X Gatecreeper Vine
1 X Shadows of the Past
2 X Evolutionary Leap
3 X Reave Soul

1 X Liliana, Heretical Healer
1 X Nissa, Vastwood Seer
3 X Fleshbag Marauder
3 X Reclamation Sage

3 X Gravedigger
2 X Languish

3 x Cruel Revival
2 X Necromantic Summons
1 X Gilt-Leaf Winnower

1 X Woodland Bellower

1 X Gaea's Revenge

Updated. Currently as decklist stands, 15-3. Two loses due to epic mana flood, third loss to double Priest of the Blood Rite. Having 3 Reclamation Sages in the deck have helped me beat 3 mill decks, which in theory is a hard matchup for this deck archtype.

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Last edited by Kryder on Sun Aug 16, 2015 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:43 pm 
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For what it's worth, 'Keezy I appreciate you sharing your build. I've not played as Elves as of yet, and now I shall!

I've taken common advice, and subbed out one lone for Gaea's Revenge.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:24 am 
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What do you guys think of this list? http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/mike-fra ... ox1-duels/

All credit goes to /u/MikeFrazier -- > Dicussion can be found @ https://www.reddit.com/r/magicduels/com ... to_lvl_40/


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:08 am 
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Hakeem928 wrote:
The deck is still in its infancy, but using Evo Leap to dig for PWers along with Shadows of the Past to find them faster is pretty sweet. I'm sure the list has room for improvement but the core is solid and it looks like a strong archetype.


I've been using this deck a lot since you did the brew (probably my favourite deck right now, so thanks), but I've made several changes as certain things just didn't feel right.

I'm favouring Splinters over Reave Soul (3/2 split) because there have been too many times when I've wanted to take out a Kothoped or some such and Reave Soul is sat in my hand doing nothing. I know the deck has other outs but I'd rather have something that is live all game long. As a paper player I have come to hate conditional removal. I just want my Murder's damnit!

Only one copy of Shadows of the Past. I actually ran the deck well without any copies for a run of 6 games or so. I had the second copy sat in my hand too many times... well I'm probably experiencing a little player bias here (maybe only had that happen to me twice) but I'm happy running one.

I'm running a pair of Graveblade Marauder's and they have been truly outstanding: MVPs in quite a lot of games. Not only do they lock down aggro/renown, but in a deck like this they can swing for some pretty serious damage late game. The synergy was just too good to leave them out - we know we can keep the opponent's board clear/under control and with Leap etc working away and filling up the graveyard I've had one of these guys swing for 10+ dmg.

And lastly I've been dancing around between having a singleton Kothoped, Soul Hoarder or Gaea's Revenge in Bellower's place and this has proved to be much more impactful... Gaea is probably the better choice as other people have already pointed out.

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