Tell me if I am crazy for doing it guys, but I made a sultai deck with elves using mill as a "alternate" win con. I am thinking I should dump the mill and krasis and just go green black. The deck itself is a midrange where every single creature triggers elemental bond which should mean ton's of draw. The point of it was to make a creature based mill deck using elemental bond and sphinx's tutelage as an alternate wincon. The deck packs 9 removal outlets and 2 field wipes + tons of draw. Evolutionary Leap was put in to make it so that I could at least do something with every creature that got targeted with removal. Let me know what you guys think and if you have any suggestions for this wacky and tacky deck.

2 x Evolutionary Leap
3 x Reave Soul
1 x Liliana, Heretical Healer
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
3 x Elemental Bond
3 x Sphinx's Tutelage
3 x Fleshbag Marauder
3 x Deadbridge Shaman
3 x Bounding Krasis
3 x Shaman of the Pack
2 x Dwynen, Gilt-Leaf Daen
3 x Lys Alana Huntmaster
2 x Languish
3 x Cruel Revival
1 x Woodland Bellower

2 x Hinterland Harbor
2 x Drowned Catacomb
2 x Woodland Cemetery
2 x Dimir Guildgate
2 x Golgari Guildgate
2 x Simic Guildgate

5 x Swamp
5 x Forest
2 x Island

20 creatures / 16 non creature spells / 24 land

24 green sources
21 black sources
6 blue sources

Edit: also forgot to mention that I considered blightcaster as additional removal with 8 enchants but scrapped him as he wasn't an elf or bounding krasis necessary to make it look like a sultai deck and less of a golgari deck.

You are trying to do:

- Elves
- Elemental Bond
- Quality/Control

I don't think your deck is a bad idea "per se" but I think it would be a lot better if you went -3 tutelage -1 revival + 4 creatures and tried to make it an elemental bond deck. My initial reaction is "not enough creatures" because you only have 20 but you need them to trigger your better cards.


Edit:
Actually yes it is a bad deck but I'm up for "fun" decks too. Not everything is spike elf decks. I still think it would be better trying to build around bond and having fun with that though.

Yeah I thought about taking out the tutelage the creatures what came to mind were some early drops like elvish visionary. The tutelage was more of just a fun card to see if I can pull it off. The rest of the deck other than the planeswalkers is built purely around elemental bond. I would like to try it with tutelage first to see if i can get some wins with a wacky version of the deck first though.

Looking at those lists some more....... assuming I just go ahead and buy all the cards on release, I think this is probably going to be the first color combo I make.

So I've looked over this list a few times, looked into a few others colours, came back to this list and have finally thrown my hands up in defeat. There just doesn't seem to be enough creature that A) have 3+ power without the aid of a Lord and B) have a CMC of less then 4. As much as I'd love to use the Elemental Bond + Sphinx's Tutelage combo to run a mill deck I just don't think the creatures in the pool can really support it. You're honestly running about the best set of creatures I can think up for this. Ah well maybe in the future Mill off that combo will become a thing. But for now you'd probably be best to take your own advice and refocus it around elemental bond instead.

What you would have to do is play Blue White Green and have Honor of the Pure and other such lords out.

I want to see some combination of:

1 CMC
2 Animist's Awakening

2 CMC
2x Displacement Wave
4x Schreeching Skaab
4x Telling Time
4x Elvish Visionary
4x Gather the Pack

3 CMC
3x Fleshbag Marauder
4x Artificer's Epiphany
3x Sphinx's Tutelage

4 CMC
4x Bitter Revelation
2x Languish

5 CMC
3x Necromantic Summons
4x Rise from the Grave
4x Cruel Revival
2x Outland Colossus
2x Possessed Skaab

6 CMC
1x Kophophed, Soul Hoarder
1x Woodland Bellower

7 CMC
1x Atharmet, High Arbiter
2x Gaea's Revenge

Planeswalkers
Green Ramp cards
25 Lands Weighted towards G and B


Edit: First List
13 creatures
4x Gatecreeper Vine
1x Jace
1x Nissa
2x Possessed Skaab
1x Soul Hoarder
1x Bellower
1x High Arbiter
2x Gaea's Revenge

23 Spells
3x Gather the Pack
3x Artificer's Epiphany
3x Read the Bones
2x Bitter Revelation
3x Fog
2x Languish
2x Displacement Wave
3x Necromantic Summons
2x Rise from the Grave


All 6 of the better dual lands
18 more lands of your choosing

RAMP DISPLACEMENT WAVE LOCK

This will appear to be a very janky list but in all intents and purposes, it's mono green with an extremely light black splash (one card one black cost) and one double blue card. It should ramp relatively quick which is the ONLY way I can see this lock working. Also, some will question my two Axebane Stag, but they're there for Nissa's Revelation. There are other stalling locks as you work your way up to the Possessed Skaab+Displacement Wavelock. At 6 mana you can do Possessed Skaab Fog. At 9 mana you can do Mwonvuli Acid-Moss+Possessed Skaab. Then finally, at 12 mana you can do Possessed Skaab+Displacement Wave. Finally, at 21 mana you could blow up land every turn lol. 2 skaabs, wave, and Mwonvuli. This would be the goal for me to do to someone. Twisted

I know this deck will fold to instant speed removal. Seems, most removal is sorcery based thankfully. Do not suggest Languish because the ramp we have been given will not support it and also the fact I need to have mostly forests will not support it. If I see this deck simply can't function because of "in response" zap the Skaab type crap, I may need to have more blue for other bounce spells. I don't think for a second this will be competitive, but I am trying to make it work at least while also staying in green mostly, hence the reason for Nissa's Revelation. Sure, we could go with more blue for draw, but then the same problem would happen. Our ramp would not work as good. Enough talk. On with the list.

1 cmc
4xFog
1xAnimist's Awakening Only a one of since you would have to put a ton into X to see a value I think.

2 cmc
4xGatecreeper Vine
4xElvish Visionary
2xDisplacement Wave

3 cmc
1xReclamation Sage
4xNissa's Pilgrimage
Why no planeswalkers? Because they are nonbo with wave.

4 cmc
4xMwonvuli Acid-Moss

5 cmc
3xPossessed Skaab
2xOutland Colossus

6 cmc
1xWoodland Bellower

7 cmc
2xNissa's Revelation= whole reason I tried to include as much fat. Still not sure if there is the right number in deck, but I am assuming with the aggressive amount of ramp deck should thin reasonably enough to hopefully make it hit.
2xGaea's Revenge
2xAxebane Stag= I know, I know. So vanilla, but essentially with Revelation this is draw 6 gain 7 life

Land
4xSimic Guildgate
1xGolgari Guildgate
1xDimir Guildgate
2xHinterland Harbor
2xWoodland Cemetery
14xForest

The One Ring

Two mana:
2x Disperse
4x Gatecreeper Vine
1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4x Perilous Myr
4x Telling Time

Three mana:
3x Anchor to the Aether
4x Calculated Dismissal
2x Nissa's Pilgrimage
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer

Four mana:
4x Bone to Ash
1x Inspiration
2x Languish
1x Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
1x Wild Instincts

Five mana:
1x Disciple of the Ring
1x Unholy Hunger

Land:
4x Dimir Guildgate
2x Drowned Catacomb
1x Golgari Guildgate
2x Hinterland Harbor
4x Simic Guildgate
1x Woodland Cemetery
3x Island
7x Forest

Three rings for the Dwynen-queen under the sky,
seven for the abbots in their keep of stone.
Nine for Josu Vess, doomed to die,
one for emo Jace in his draw-go
in the land of Vryn where the sphinxes lie.

One Ring to rule them all,
One Ring to find them.
One Ring to bring them all
and in this context bind them,
in the land of Vryn where the sphinxes lie.


Okay, so this is styled after a classic draw-go strategy where the only win condition in the entire deck was Rainbow Efreet. Not quite as extreme here, we have a few creatures for sacrifice fodder and to help us accelerate/stall. Jace and Nissa could both be win conditions if Disciple of the Ring doesn't work out or just refuses to show up. I don't exactly expect this to work, but stranger things have happened. If Perilous Myr stabilizes against an opponent's slow start, you may very well be able to play straight draw-go for a while. By the time you feel it is safe to cast Disciple of the Ring your graveyard should be piled high with counterspells, Telling Time and other spells, making her a formidable counterspeller and able to hold the ground against any army that hasn't gone too wide. If the opponent is sufficiently locked down, you may proceed to beat them down with your One Ring Disciple of the Ring after a long game of stall.

The one copy of Wild Instincts is there to potentially deal with Gaea's Revenge; oddly enough, Disciple of the Ring is one of the few creatures in the format who could potentially survive that trade of blows.

Hey, here's my Sultai Self Mill. It's still a work in progress as I constantly try to optimize it, but that's where I'm at.

The core mechanic is abusing graveyard and removal in the form of Fleshbag Marauder + Cruel Revival and additionally Gravedigger.
Gaea's Revenge and Graveblade Marauder act as big damage dealers. I'm also not convinced, that Marauder is really neccessary. I still need to test.
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, Liliana, Heretical Healer, Bitter Revelation get cards into your graveyard. I tried out Screeching Skaab but wasn't very happy with it. I might test it out again in place of Elvish Visionary who acts mainly as a valuable chump blocker. I also dropped Bone Splinters as it constantly put me in a card disadvantage and very often it just sits dead in hand.

1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 x Elvish Visionary
4 x Reave Soul
1 x Liliana, Heretical Healer
2 x Graveblade Marauder
3 x Fleshbag Marauder
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
3 x Gravedigger
2 x Languish
4 x Bitter Revelation
3 x Possessed Skaab
3 x Cruel Revival
3 x Necromantic Summons
2 x Gaea's Revenge

5 x Island
6 x Swamp
5 x Forest
2 x Woodland Cemetery
2 x Drowned Catacomb
2 x Hinterland Harbor
1 x Golgari Guildgate
1 x Simic Guildgate

Hey folks, new to the forum and the app. Been around MtG for a while but couldn't keep up with the release cycles (stopped playing standard after the first Ravnica block) and I needed to use my cash money for other things. So far enjoying the format of Duels and put together a couple of decks. My favorite so far has been my BUG Thopter deck. The early game can be a little rocky against aggro decks, but with the right draw it can keep up. Then the mid game this deck takes off with all of the card draw and shuffle mechanics; I frequently have to discard by the end of my turn for having a full hand, meaning Languish and Tragic Arrogance won't ruin my late game. The premise is to use early game board control spells and creatures to accelerate into the card draw/shuffle effects. I can't say enough good things about the early game board control of Perilous Myr. I've been enjoying tinkering with it so far and welcome any feedback for substitutions etc.

Creatures:
4 x Perilous Myr
2 x Harbinger of the Tides
3 x Undercity Troll
3 x Gatecreeper Vine
3 x Chief of the Foundry
3 x Jhessian Thief
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
3 x Bounding Krasis
3 x Whirler Rogue
2 x Outland Colossus

Spells:
4 x Reave Soul
2 x Languish
3 x Flesh to Dust

Enchantments:
2 x Evolutionary Leap
2 x Thopter Spy Network

Lands:
2 x Woodland Cemetery
2 x Drowned Catacomb
2 x Hinterland Harbor
2 x Golgari Guildgate
2 x Simic Guildgate
4 x Forest
4 x Island
2 x Swamp

So here's a really solid build I've been working on. Started as Golgari and morphed into Sultai (mainly because Jorubai Murk Lurker is just crazy awesome)

1 x Bone Splinters

1 x Perilous Myr
3 x Reave Soul
3 x Jorubai Murk Lurker

1 x Liliana, Heretical Healer
2 x Graveblade Marauder
3 x Fleshbag Marauder
4 x Read the Bones
1 x Erebos's Titan
2 x Languish

2 x Priest of the Blood Rite
2 x Gilt-Leaf Winnower
2 x Outland Colossus
3 x Cruel Revival

2 x Kothophed, Soul Hoarder
2 x Alhammarret, High Arbiter
2 x Gaea's Revenge

3 x Island
8 x Swamp
3 x Forest
2 x Woodland Cemetery
2 x Drowned Catacomb
1 x Dimir Guildgate
1 x Golgari Guildgate
4 x Evolving Wilds


It's got a bit of a steep mana-curve but generally holds up well with the early destroy. If you don't get Languish against a fast elf deck you're done for but there's not a lot of aggro in the meta right now (from what I've seen). If I were to do anything to lower the curve I'd probably add 3 more Perilous Myr and drop 3 higher cost cards. So far I haven't felt the need to do so.

2 x Bone Splinters
2 x Languish
2 x Necromatic Summons
2 x Read the Bones

4 x Artificer's Epiphany
2 x Esperzoa
1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
3 x Hydrolash
3 x Sphinx's Tutelage
2 x Talent of the Telepath

4 x Fog
3 x Gatecreeper Vine

3 x Bounding Krasis
4 x Alchemist's Vial
2 x Runed Servitor

2 x Hinterland Harbor
2 x Drowned Catacomb
2 x Golgari Guildgate
3 x Evolving Wilds

Don't remember the exact ratio I am using of basic lands





This is roughly what I am playing. I might be slightly off on some of the numbers.

I put together a Sultai Mill/Turbo Fog deck, based on CovertGo Blue's Duels Diaries Post

Using this as a guide.


I don't have access to my decklist right now, but I'll post it later tonight once I can. I'm not the best player, when it comes to putting decks together, but I'm certainly not the worst. I was hoping I could get some feedback on how to balance it out a bit. I'm still working on filling out my collection, so I'm missing some bits.

Mainly, I'm missing a tutelage, a languish, I only have 6 (Gate(4)/Vision(1)/Runed(1)). I figured I should fill out some black cards to boost my card draw, or have bodies on the board to control the early game while I'm setting up. So I put in a few Deadbridge Shaman, an Eyeblight Assassin, a Sigiled Starfish or two, and like one or two Fleshbag Marauder's. The discard and the bodies to hopefully trade well, or discourage enemy attacks. I threw in a few Read the bones, again, to help with card draw, and bottoming excess lands. I also put in 4 Reave Soul's to remove dangerous targets. My color balance came out as a pretty even split between all 3.

I'm considering putting Disperse in, to deal with Enchantments, Auras, Planeswalkers, etc, cause right now there's not much I can do about them.

About lands. I have (If I remember right), 2 of each rare dual land for Sultai. 1 of each gate (Since I can fetch with Gatecreeper if I need it), and the rest is evenly split between forests, islands, and swamps, for a total of 24 lands. With all the card draw though, I got a LOT of lands in play when I tried it out. And I'm unsure about the tap lands. How many do I need? Gates or the rare ones? Should I go less than 24? Dunno.

I would appreciate thoughts and recommendations. Maybe I should slot in Possessed Skaab to fetch Fog again?

Nebula that deck looks close to some of the builds I've been working on right now, but I think I would definitely lower the curve. You've got a bone splinters and fleshbags in there with only a single Myr that you might want to sacrifice. If you dropped a few of your bombs for some cyclers like elvish visionaries and used gatecreeper vines to fix mana you would have turn 2 plays and an actual way to profit from your sacrifice effects. You could even run evolutionary leap for extra draw off your cyclers and to make your threats immune to removal.

Maybe it's true that you haven't lost that many games to aggro or mana screw yet, but I'm sure you've lost even less games because you didn't have enough threats and value in the deck.

By the way, I'm really surprised that Nissa isn't in there. She's fine on turn three and fantastic on turn 7+, I include her in just about every deck that plays like that one.

Proudly presenting:

TURBOFOG

4 fog
3 elvish visionary
2 Runed servitor
2 gatekreeper vine
1 jace, vryn's prodigy (optional, winner if he sticks lategame but might replace by another 2 drop, I often replace it by 1 displacement wave)
4 alchemist's vial
3 telling time
3 disperse
1 reave soul
1 nissa, vastwood seer (better than jace here, the landfetch + blocker early is amazing value in this deck, and lategame she becomes a wincon just like jace)
3 sphinx's tutelage
3 Hydrolash
4 artificer's epiphany
2 languish
4 island
6 swamp
4 forest
2 woodland cemetery
2 drowned catacomb
1 hinterland harbor
3 dimir guildgate
2 evolving wilds

that's only 23 direct lands if you count the evoling wilds as 1/2, but the amount of draw is easily enough to keep fetching landdrops. I recently put the wilds in since imo i was drawing too many lands and not enough gas sometimes when I ran the flat 24. Very often that one land too much matters.
Early game land is key and you should be digging for it ferociously, but it's importance drops of fast and hits the first sweet spot at 4 where you can double up your 2 drops or play languish, then 5 is nice because it allows another 2 drop + lash/epiphany and then the final sweet spot is at 7 at which point you can draw/discard + fog which should ideally be the last couple of turns of the game.
Don't be a tool like me and think you have the game won and draw/discard and only then play fog only to get hit by a calculated dismissal. Expect to win/lose on 2 life often.


ing it

4+6+4+2+2+1+1+2*(1/2) = 21?? != 23??

Also, it totals 58 cards (Fixed)

I'm all for a more complete turbo fog deck though. It's hella fun. I just need to unlock a few more key cards like my last languish and tutelage.

misstyped the dimir guildgates, should be 3 not one. CALLIN' MR P !

Here's a mill deck I created. Hardly fair to call it Sultai, since the only black card(s) are Languish. However, I'm really enjoying it and hoping for some feedback on how to improve it.

4 x Fog

3 x Runed Servitor
1 x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4 x Elvish Visionary
4 x Alchemist's Vial
4 x Disperse

3 x Esperzoa
1 x Nissa, Vastwood Seer
3 x Sphinx's Tutelage
3 x Hydrolash
4 x Artificer's Epiphany

2 x Languish

4 x Island
2 x Swamp
4 x Forest
2 x Woodland Cemetary
2 x Drowned Catacomb
2 x Hinterland Harbor
2 x Dimir Guildgate
2 x Golgari Guildgate
2 x Simic Guildgate
2 x Evolving Wilds


So a few thoughts:

This deck is great fun, but I've only played it against AI - no reason to play online at the moment...the 1-2 minute wait per match and the 5 extra coins is simply not worth the effort, once you've reached rank 40.

First and foremost - land? I took a fairly simple approach, but I'm not great at land analysis like some others on these forums. I chose 2 x evolving wilds to help pitch in should I need a second swamp for Languish, and otherwise, things are fairly balanced but perhaps I should have more of a blue focus.

The combo of Esperzoa and Alchemist's Vial is just so amazingly good. It really helps fuel this deck, and when your opponent is overwhelming you, just evacuate the Esperzoas and languish. This creates a pretty huge momentum swing.

I'm not 100% on disperse, but I think it's fitting the need here because it's instant speed, and I can pull back an unflipped Nissa or Jace or deal with most threats (Gaea's Revenge is still an issue, but we have fog or a chump blocker to hopefully deal with that).

I'm not really sure what else to make way for here - it seems to run pretty smoothly.

I did originally have 3 x Gatecreeper Vine instead of Esperzoa, but the land dig doesn't trigger Sphinx's Tutelage, and I haven't run into any mana problems at all with all the different card draw.