It is currently Thu Nov 28, 2024 11:35 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 78 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Which themes do you want to card?
Poll ended at Sun May 31, 2015 1:06 pm
Purity 6%  6%  [ 4 ]
Prehistoric 17%  17%  [ 12 ]
Lifelessness 6%  6%  [ 4 ]
Golden Age 9%  9%  [ 6 ]
Kingdom Come 10%  10%  [ 7 ]
Oblivion 7%  7%  [ 5 ]
Egyptian 17%  17%  [ 12 ]
Ruptured Planet 13%  13%  [ 9 ]
Having Color Matters 7%  7%  [ 5 ]
Planeswalkers 9%  9%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 70
Total voters : 26
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 3:57 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 1105
Every spell has a drawback mechanic; it's called mana cost. Other drawback mechanics are just tradeoffs with that one.
It's unfortunate that people struggle with this concept.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 4:25 pm 
Offline
YMtC Champ '14
YMTC Pro Tour Champion
User avatar

Joined: Jun 04, 2014
Posts: 15598
Location: Freedom
Preferred Pronoun Set: they
Every spell has a drawback mechanic; it's called mana cost. Other drawback mechanics are just tradeoffs with that one.
It's unfortunate that people struggle with this concept.

it's a matter of perception. research consistently shows that people don't perceive the mana cost as a drawback in the same way they view something like Echo. it's just a balancing tool, a method of conveying how strong the card's effects are. given that, and that keywords that are drawbacks are consistently poorly received, it's generally a bad idea to use them if you want people to have fun with your designs.

:duel:

_________________
I tend to agree with Razor.

Mown wrote:
I'll never again complain about raz's criteria.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 4:31 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 27, 2013
Posts: 3389
"I am so hyped to play with these sick new vanishing cards"
—nobody


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 4:34 pm 
Offline
Winner - CotY '16
User avatar

Joined: Oct 24, 2013
Posts: 2200
I don't think people struggle with the concept. They're just used to having new keywords represent the new things a set is focused on, and are not excited when they think a set is focused on a drawback. Why would Vanishing make someone want to see more of a set? People can appreciate the strategic value of a card but still not care about it.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 4:50 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 13, 2015
Posts: 897
Prehistoric sucks guys!

_________________
PLAY 3CM IT'S IN MAGIC GENERAL IF YOU DON'T YOU SUCK AT LIFE


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 5:14 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 14004
Identity: Chaoslight
Preferred Pronoun Set: She
I like vanishing.

_________________
altimis wrote:
I never take anytihng Lily says seriously, except for when I take it personally. Then it's personal.
WotC_Ethan wrote:
People, buy more stuff.
#WotCstaff
Spoiler

Image


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 5:20 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jun 12, 2014
Posts: 160
I don't want to be the defender of vanishing, but when I first started playing I opened a Chronozoa and was blown away by the design. Aven Riftwatcher, Keldon Marauders and Tidewalker were also pretty great. Im just saying that vanishing can lead to some interesting designs.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 5:27 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 14004
Identity: Chaoslight
Preferred Pronoun Set: She
Ulcaster wrote:
I don't want to be the defender of vanishing, but when I first started playing I opened a Chronozoa and was blown away by the design. Aven Riftwatcher, Keldon Marauders and Tidewalker were also pretty great. Im just saying that vanishing can lead to some interesting designs.


Chronozoa was one of the first cards I bought a playset of, because to go with my doubling season. It was so bad and so fun.

_________________
altimis wrote:
I never take anytihng Lily says seriously, except for when I take it personally. Then it's personal.
WotC_Ethan wrote:
People, buy more stuff.
#WotCstaff
Spoiler

Image


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 5:30 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jun 12, 2014
Posts: 160
Haha that's an amazing (sort of) combo


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 5:35 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 27, 2013
Posts: 3389
But it would take twice as long to get the tokens!!


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 6:00 pm 
Offline
Conqueror of Eldangard
User avatar

Joined: Sep 25, 2013
Posts: 14139
Location: Kamloops, BC
Identity: Male
But you get twice as many!

_________________
Cato wrote:
CotW is a method for ranking cards in increasing order of printability.

*"To YMTC it up" means to design cards that have value mostly from a design perspective. i.e. you would put them in a case under glass in your living room and visitors could remark upon the wonderful design principles, with nobody ever worring if the cards are annoying/pointless/confusing in actual play

TPrizesW
TPortfolioW


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 6:03 pm 
Offline
Conqueror of Eldangard
User avatar

Joined: Sep 25, 2013
Posts: 14139
Location: Kamloops, BC
Identity: Male
If prehistoric takes the vote then this may be the second set spawned by the Booster Pack Game.

_________________
Cato wrote:
CotW is a method for ranking cards in increasing order of printability.

*"To YMTC it up" means to design cards that have value mostly from a design perspective. i.e. you would put them in a case under glass in your living room and visitors could remark upon the wonderful design principles, with nobody ever worring if the cards are annoying/pointless/confusing in actual play

TPrizesW
TPortfolioW


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 2:40 pm 
Offline
Winner - CotY '16
User avatar

Joined: Oct 24, 2013
Posts: 2200
I agree that Vanishing allows for some fun cards to be designed. Drawbacks let Timmy get exciting effects cheaper than usual, let Spike make more complex strategic evaluations, and spark Johnny's creativity in sidestepping the downsides in fun ways. BUT I think that when you get beyond individual cards and start making a larger game that all revolves around that downside it starts to feel smothering, like you're fighting against the game itself rather than your opponent.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 2:54 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Posts: 7801
In a large set we're looking at about 15 total cards with fadingvanishing out of over 250 to get the theme across. With small sets that number seems to get halved to about 8. We're not talking oppressive numbers here.

_________________
magicpablo666 wrote:
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


Last edited by AzureShade on Thu May 28, 2015 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 2:54 pm 
Offline
YMtC Pro Tour Champion
Proud Owner of Mown
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 9749
Location: Ontario
Extinct (If there is a copy of a card that shares a name with this card in a graveyard you can't play this card.)
Extinct (When this creature dies destroy all creatures that share a name with it.)
Extinct (This card can only be played from the graveyard.)

_________________
Sithas
Sithas:Rising Storms
Star Wars
Ephemeron

Cato


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 3:16 pm 
Offline
YMtC Champ '14
YMTC Pro Tour Champion
User avatar

Joined: Jun 04, 2014
Posts: 15598
Location: Freedom
Preferred Pronoun Set: they
AzureShade wrote:
In a large set we're looking at about 15 total cards with fadingvanishing out of over 250 to get the theme across. With small sets that number seems to get halved to about 8. We're not talking oppressive numbers here.

we're talking about set themes though. there are only 18 Heroic cards in Theros, 16 Monstrosity and Devotion, and 15 Bestow. all four of those together only represent a little over a quarter of the set. but the four of them together almost completely define the experience of playing the set. they are Theros, the rest of the set is just there as padding.

your marquee mechanics matter, and making them drawbacks has consistently proven to be unpopular.

:duel:

_________________
I tend to agree with Razor.

Mown wrote:
I'll never again complain about raz's criteria.


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 3:33 pm 
Offline
YMtC Pro Tour Champion
Proud Owner of Mown
User avatar

Joined: Sep 23, 2013
Posts: 9749
Location: Ontario
Yah but us here in YMTC love drawback mechanics. They make us clever when we can use them to our advantage instead.

_________________
Sithas
Sithas:Rising Storms
Star Wars
Ephemeron

Cato


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 11:10 pm 
Offline
Conqueror of Eldangard
User avatar

Joined: Sep 25, 2013
Posts: 14139
Location: Kamloops, BC
Identity: Male
Dudibus wrote:
Extinct (If there is a copy of a card that shares a name with this card in a graveyard you can't play this card.)
Extinct (When this creature dies destroy all creatures that share a name with it.)
Extinct (This card can only be played from the graveyard.)

Devolve X (You may have this enter the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it. It loses all abilities as long as it has a +1/+1 counter on it.)

_________________
Cato wrote:
CotW is a method for ranking cards in increasing order of printability.

*"To YMTC it up" means to design cards that have value mostly from a design perspective. i.e. you would put them in a case under glass in your living room and visitors could remark upon the wonderful design principles, with nobody ever worring if the cards are annoying/pointless/confusing in actual play

TPrizesW
TPortfolioW


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 12:20 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 24, 2013
Posts: 8786
(You may have this creature enter the battlefield with N +1/+1 counters on it. If you do, it gains "at the beginning of your upkeep, remove a +1/+1 counter from this creature. When the last is removed, sacrifice it.")


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 2:11 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Jun 21, 2014
Posts: 8338
Location: Singapore
TPmanW wrote:
Devolve X (You may have this enter the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it. It loses all abilities as long as it has a +1/+1 counter on it.)

Essence of Greed

_________________
Image
The format of YMtC and the Expanded Multiverse.
YMtC: My Deck of Many Things | NGA Masters | 2 | 3 | Roses of Paliano | Duel Decks: War of the Wheel | Jakkard: Wild Cards | From Maral's Vault | Taramir: The Dark Tide
Solphos: Solphos | Fool's Gold | Planeswalker's Guide | The Guiding Light | The Weight of a Soul
Game design: Pokémon Tales | Fleets of Ossia: War Machines | Hunter Killer | Red Jackie's Run


Like this post
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 78 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group