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Which themes do you want to card?
Poll ended at Sun May 31, 2015 1:06 pm
Purity 6%  6%  [ 4 ]
Prehistoric 17%  17%  [ 12 ]
Lifelessness 6%  6%  [ 4 ]
Golden Age 9%  9%  [ 6 ]
Kingdom Come 10%  10%  [ 7 ]
Oblivion 7%  7%  [ 5 ]
Egyptian 17%  17%  [ 12 ]
Ruptured Planet 13%  13%  [ 9 ]
Having Color Matters 7%  7%  [ 5 ]
Planeswalkers 9%  9%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 70
Total voters : 26
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 3:57 pm 
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Every spell has a drawback mechanic; it's called mana cost. Other drawback mechanics are just tradeoffs with that one.
It's unfortunate that people struggle with this concept.


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 4:25 pm 
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Every spell has a drawback mechanic; it's called mana cost. Other drawback mechanics are just tradeoffs with that one.
It's unfortunate that people struggle with this concept.

it's a matter of perception. research consistently shows that people don't perceive the mana cost as a drawback in the same way they view something like Echo. it's just a balancing tool, a method of conveying how strong the card's effects are. given that, and that keywords that are drawbacks are consistently poorly received, it's generally a bad idea to use them if you want people to have fun with your designs.

:duel:

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 4:31 pm 
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"I am so hyped to play with these sick new vanishing cards"
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 4:34 pm 
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I don't think people struggle with the concept. They're just used to having new keywords represent the new things a set is focused on, and are not excited when they think a set is focused on a drawback. Why would Vanishing make someone want to see more of a set? People can appreciate the strategic value of a card but still not care about it.


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 4:50 pm 
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Prehistoric sucks guys!

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 5:14 pm 
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I like vanishing.

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I never take anytihng Lily says seriously, except for when I take it personally. Then it's personal.
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People, buy more stuff.
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 5:20 pm 
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I don't want to be the defender of vanishing, but when I first started playing I opened a Chronozoa and was blown away by the design. Aven Riftwatcher, Keldon Marauders and Tidewalker were also pretty great. Im just saying that vanishing can lead to some interesting designs.


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 5:27 pm 
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Ulcaster wrote:
I don't want to be the defender of vanishing, but when I first started playing I opened a Chronozoa and was blown away by the design. Aven Riftwatcher, Keldon Marauders and Tidewalker were also pretty great. Im just saying that vanishing can lead to some interesting designs.


Chronozoa was one of the first cards I bought a playset of, because to go with my doubling season. It was so bad and so fun.

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I never take anytihng Lily says seriously, except for when I take it personally. Then it's personal.
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People, buy more stuff.
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 5:30 pm 
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Haha that's an amazing (sort of) combo


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 5:35 pm 
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But it would take twice as long to get the tokens!!


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 6:00 pm 
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But you get twice as many!

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Cato wrote:
CotW is a method for ranking cards in increasing order of printability.

*"To YMTC it up" means to design cards that have value mostly from a design perspective. i.e. you would put them in a case under glass in your living room and visitors could remark upon the wonderful design principles, with nobody ever worring if the cards are annoying/pointless/confusing in actual play

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 6:03 pm 
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If prehistoric takes the vote then this may be the second set spawned by the Booster Pack Game.

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Cato wrote:
CotW is a method for ranking cards in increasing order of printability.

*"To YMTC it up" means to design cards that have value mostly from a design perspective. i.e. you would put them in a case under glass in your living room and visitors could remark upon the wonderful design principles, with nobody ever worring if the cards are annoying/pointless/confusing in actual play

TPrizesW
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 2:40 pm 
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I agree that Vanishing allows for some fun cards to be designed. Drawbacks let Timmy get exciting effects cheaper than usual, let Spike make more complex strategic evaluations, and spark Johnny's creativity in sidestepping the downsides in fun ways. BUT I think that when you get beyond individual cards and start making a larger game that all revolves around that downside it starts to feel smothering, like you're fighting against the game itself rather than your opponent.


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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 2:54 pm 
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In a large set we're looking at about 15 total cards with fadingvanishing out of over 250 to get the theme across. With small sets that number seems to get halved to about 8. We're not talking oppressive numbers here.

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You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!"


Last edited by AzureShade on Thu May 28, 2015 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 2:54 pm 
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Extinct (If there is a copy of a card that shares a name with this card in a graveyard you can't play this card.)
Extinct (When this creature dies destroy all creatures that share a name with it.)
Extinct (This card can only be played from the graveyard.)

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 3:16 pm 
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AzureShade wrote:
In a large set we're looking at about 15 total cards with fadingvanishing out of over 250 to get the theme across. With small sets that number seems to get halved to about 8. We're not talking oppressive numbers here.

we're talking about set themes though. there are only 18 Heroic cards in Theros, 16 Monstrosity and Devotion, and 15 Bestow. all four of those together only represent a little over a quarter of the set. but the four of them together almost completely define the experience of playing the set. they are Theros, the rest of the set is just there as padding.

your marquee mechanics matter, and making them drawbacks has consistently proven to be unpopular.

:duel:

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I tend to agree with Razor.

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I'll never again complain about raz's criteria.


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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 3:33 pm 
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Yah but us here in YMTC love drawback mechanics. They make us clever when we can use them to our advantage instead.

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 11:10 pm 
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Dudibus wrote:
Extinct (If there is a copy of a card that shares a name with this card in a graveyard you can't play this card.)
Extinct (When this creature dies destroy all creatures that share a name with it.)
Extinct (This card can only be played from the graveyard.)

Devolve X (You may have this enter the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it. It loses all abilities as long as it has a +1/+1 counter on it.)

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Cato wrote:
CotW is a method for ranking cards in increasing order of printability.

*"To YMTC it up" means to design cards that have value mostly from a design perspective. i.e. you would put them in a case under glass in your living room and visitors could remark upon the wonderful design principles, with nobody ever worring if the cards are annoying/pointless/confusing in actual play

TPrizesW
TPortfolioW


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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 12:20 am 
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(You may have this creature enter the battlefield with N +1/+1 counters on it. If you do, it gains "at the beginning of your upkeep, remove a +1/+1 counter from this creature. When the last is removed, sacrifice it.")


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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 2:11 am 
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TPmanW wrote:
Devolve X (You may have this enter the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it. It loses all abilities as long as it has a +1/+1 counter on it.)

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