The following is just advice and not written in stone as witness I can edit any time I want to. That means I admit I don't know it all and would appreciate help in compiling things for this thread.

Two headed games are different from 1 on 1. It doesn't seem obvious to new players though. I created this thread to help you out with getting started. My hope is it inspires you to make your own discoveries and share them with us.

Arguments/debates are welcome, but only if civil. Do not be rude, sarcastic or condescending or at least try not to.

Guardians of Light:

Greater Auramancy can protect your Kor/Mesa from being targeted but not indirect. Use low mana spells to put the kor/mesa out of direct damage range for early match. If greater auramancy is on field, you can move onto casting spells on your partner's creatures

Consider that Purify can protect you from direct damage to yourself and at 6/6 it's hard to kill with direct burn. Throw any enchant on it, it doesn't matter, next turn. At 6 mana it doesn't truly fit a lot of deck builds, but consider it anyways

Use the Idyllic tutors and both of the Three Wishes. Get sigil of the Empty throne, or something that will immediately help if you're in danger.

Sigil of the New Dawn is now useful but still, it probably won't fit most builds unless you go more creature heavy.

Send in the chumps. These are simply either counter absorbers or fire targets. 'Burn" out their spells so they can't deal with your bigger threats. the 3 2/2 cats are perfect for this.

Use Totem Guide Heartbeasts now. Their 5 defense is now very valuable

Firewave:

consider removing all Furnace of Rath and Sulfuric Vortex. I've seen it backfire a whole lot more than work
Consider adding one torch fiend so you don't get hosed by Samurai and Sword of Fire and Ice. if not against it, its a cheap chump blocker or fire target
Run reverberate. Learn how and when to use it.
Run all 4 Pilgrim's Eye now to insure your mana gets up there for the big ones. Don't use inferno, use Flame Wave instead or preferably, neither one. Also, they're colorless and can block Samurai with sword of fire and ice. Prepare to build your fire spells up with mana

Hunter's Strength:

Send in the chumps. Don't enchant them except with rancor as you can get them back. They're fat enough already for very little mana
Run 2 healing artifacts. Others have already adopted this and their decks are doing better. Just imagine when Primevil Bounty hits the board.
Run Savage Summoning.
Run Fauna Shaman. The ability to sacrifice a chump for a creature that'll be more useful to your situation is a gold mine.
Run Green Sun's Zenith and DO NOT SAVE IT FOR SOMETHING BIG. 4 mana, get a ooze or a wolf
Configure lands carefully with this deck. 22 to 24 seem ideal.
Run Pulse of the Tangle for renewable chumps. they counter it? who cares. it was a chump. Most players don't know how to use this right. If you have 1 creature on the board and they have 2, and you use this, it'll go to the graveyard. If they 3 and you 1, by all means, throw this out there.
Run 1 Enormous Baloths and only summon it when you have a land to throw after it, or are desperate.
Run both Cudgel Trolls. Now, more than ever, I wish we had Troll Ascetics instead or Thrun, the Last Troll

Masks of the Dimir(my favorite as you can tell)

Go after the deck that has best creatures with discard and Thought Scours to set up a beacon of unrest.
Go after player with the more card dependant deck with chittering rats
Set up Ghastlord of Fugue of course. Consider saving Cipher spells to put on him.
Beg them to kill Surveiling Sprites to give you a chance at card advantage
In certain situations, instead of going after deck with best creatures, go after hand that's more dangerous
Masks of the Dimir is a trick filled, wild card style deck. Don't dismiss it lightly if competing vs it.
Look at each card more than once if not used to this deck. Almost all have more than 1 use and some have multiple uses in any encounter.

Mana Maze

Look into the cheap flyer illusions as they're very effective and cost little mana.
In 2hg, the control version of the deck seems to be more successful than aggro.
Learn to use your specialized counters wisely.
Use the healing artifacts. These really help Mana Maze survive longer.
Remove the very vulnerable to indirect fire Roil Elemental. a 3/2 is too easy to destroy
Use your counters for protecting partner as well as yourself.
Do not listen to abusive partners telling you what to counter. You're now protecting him/her and they will not understand in a lot of cases
At 2/1, a snapcaster mage isn't going to look like a creature you want in your deck. Look again. Flashback is incredibly useful. You can also image him to do it again, or unsummon him and do it again.
The low mana bears and other illusions, even the 3 mana ones, look too weak with anything targetting them destroying them, but think again. Indirect spells get burned up dealing with them, such as healing ones or burn and are considered a waste when you consider the low mana cost of the illusions.
Look for ways to get mana advantage any time you can.

Deadwalkers:

Add in 1, or more viable, 2 nightmares. You'll be partnering with demons often and you need something of high hp to block baneslayer angels. I run 1 but many of you will probably choose 2 as it seems that's what most of my partners do
Give up the Cruel Revivals. Consider running an Avatar of Woe.
Give up the 1 or 2 mana zombies that have no special abilities, like undying. By all means, keep those in as well as those you can easily return from graveyard
Black cats are still just as useful as they ever were, just focus on one opponent's hand with them at a time.
Grave Betrayal seems to be doing extremely well
Use Quest for the Gravelord. It's practically a guaranteed 5/5 zombie for 1 mana

Chant of the Mul Daya

You'll want to drop a couple of eldrazi creatures for more versatile green creatures
Summoning Trap is very useful
Use 2 All is dust at most. 3 is just 1 too many. Run all 3 though if you're paranoid about mobs.
Consider ramp as deck thinning. Your goal is to get rid of lands out of your deck so you only have spells to cast

Avacyn's Glory

You might want to drop the human flood strategy and concentrate more on defense
Prepare to drop Mentor Late game instead of early. Try to save a low mana human to draw.
Do not put Mikaeus out unless by doing so it has at least 4 defense.
fiend Hunter is easy to destroy so now it becomes a delay rather than effective
Doomed traveler can survive board wipes. Very useful now, maybe more so than before expansion.
Really look at using Seraph of the Dawn x 3. Very useful flyer with lifelink
Use Restoration Angel mostly because it's a 4 drop with 4 defense, but also a surprise defense.
Use Baneslayers, Requiem angel, Avacyn, Angel of Hope, Deathless Angel, Sunblast, Martyr's Bond and angelic overseers
Harrow now has more uses, but still feels like not enough to use more than 1
Requiem is used to survive board wipes. Avacyn is to survive late game as is Deathless Angel
Consider running Dearly Departed and Twilight Shepherd.

Sliver Hive:

You probably won't have to change much. This deck isn't very viable in 2hg.
Consider/try the deck 2 colors and see if it fits better.
Trample is now a bit more useful. Consider using the 2 trample/lifelink enchants
Use Survival of the Fittest.
Mirror Entity is now better for defense than it was. When summoned make sure you have extra untapped lands even if you can swing early for good damage, don't use it on that turn. Save it to give sudden boost to defense.

Enter the Dracomancer

This deck has answers to all the new deck strengths so you may want to practice with it. That's what I'm doing now.
Load up the chumps and keep some alive after devour if possible. Use tuskatongues now instead of dragon fodders as it takes D B 2 turns to burn out tuskatongues, 1 for fodder. Shaman are even more vulnerable now so don't use all 4, run 2 at most
Ramp, all of it. In absence of card draw, get rid of lands from deck as soon as possible so you can draw spells only. When possible pair with decks that can help you draw. Masks of the Dimir, Lords of Darkness and an unselfish Dodge and burn can do this.
Jund Charm's "other" option is now useful to empty zombie/demon graveyards. It's 2/2 boost and 2 damage to all is even more useful now especially the 2 damage vs elves. Save the Jund Charm for a reanimate sometimes, then cast it on graveyard with best creature in it.
Maelstrom Pulse is useful vs each and every new deck. Heck, this spell is useful anywhere.
Always try to keep a chump alive to sacrifice.
Haste is now more useful than before.
Run spellbreaker Behemoth. You won't be sorry.
Savage Twister and Banefire are very useful in this deck...

Dodge and Burn

Unless teaming with Firewave, go more control, less burn in 2hg. With Firewave, do the opposite
Learn to use draw spells, Compulsive Research and Opportunity, on partner when they need the cards more
This deck has a habit of getting mana screwed often. Not just me, but 90% of foes and partners I've seen. Use all 4 telemorphic expanse. At least you can use them as discard when you use compulsive research
Try to use at least 3 of the small creatures and maybe 1 Charmbreaker Devil. I prefer the Dragonauts for my 3
For now, until they fix it, do not use Stolen Goods on opponent diagonally from you on the board. Only use it on opponent directly in front of you
Your key weaknesses are creatures over 4 defense and indestructible. 4 defense will require you to either use 2 spells or one direct damage. Either way, it's costly. Your deck has nothing that deals with indestructibility so if one hits the board or a creature is enchanted with it, you'll have to have your partner deal with it.
Be patient. Once your mana is tapped, your opponents will put out it's best.

Lords of Darkness

You've got to employ some early creatures, even when teamed with zombies. The Onyx Mage are the best choice as deathtouch is still useful in late game.
Don't waste Diabolic Edicts and the like on creatures that aren't a threat to you or your partner.
Running all 3 bloodgift demons is very wise. You can gift your partner with spells as well.
The deck teams well with anything with mobs, plus Dimir. I guess you could conceive of a strategy with discard there. Haven't seen it yet.
For 2hg, do NOT PUT IN LORD OF THE PIT. Your partner will hate you.

Hall of Champions

Drop most of your plans for attacking alone. Go more defensive instead.
Try to load up on creatures instead. Take advantage of the specialty ones.
Work as many of the mana efficient flyers in your deck as you can.
Consider running an Iridescent Angel. I've always been able to cast it when I draw one
Only cast pariah on creature directly across from you. You can put it on diagonal creatures when playing vs Burn styles.
You team well with Guardians of Light, Mana Maze, Dodge and Burn and Avacyn's Glory.

Sylvan Might:

You have 3 taunting elves. Use every one of them. This is basically the only removal you have.
Due to lack of removal, consider teaming with removal heavy decks
Ascetism is extremely useful. Not just the hexproof, but the regeneration
The enchants are nice, but you can achieve as much effect or more dropping another elf for that mana
Timberwatch elf is useful for partners as well as yourself
With so much mass removal in 2hg, don't use the one that turns your lands into creatures unless you like suicide
You won't have to change much in 2hg from 1 vs 1

Swords of the Samurai:

Don't dismiss this deck. Too many on other forums reported it as 'crap'. Wrong. They saw all the small creature strength/toughness and didn't look into it enough.
Your equipment is your strength. Run any tutor that gets that equipment out.
run all 4 Lightning Helix. Learn to use Intimidation bolt if you want to use it.
You will have more time in 2hg to summon the big dragons.
Don't use Avatar of Slaughter unless you just like to lose
Run Hand of Honor. You might not be facing a black deck, but it's still only 2 mana. I wish we'd gotten 4 of these.
Keep this build TIGHT. 60 cards is enough. Run all 3 Telemorphic.
You can run this deck white only. the biggest drop will be the Lightning Helix
Don't use more than 2 Glory of Warfare

@shadowcran, you are focusing too much on dodge and burn to the exclusion of all else again, meaning you are telling people to make their decks much worse for other matchups.

Ignore the above who's view is slanted towards aggro and 1 on 1. The staffs keep you and your partner in the matches. 6 mana spells or above can be easily played in 2hg and the cats are simply fodder with lifelink.

You do realize that an unblockable lifelink creature, or a 6/6 + with flying is very good for your chances of winning the game yes? Even in 2HG one large buff, whether it be protection or flying, on a cat nets you quite a few extra turns worth a health, in addition to reducing the opponent's health. This gains you life much faster than a staff would.

Also......... whether you want to admit it or not hanging back and mostly casting auras on your partners creatures seems to be a bad thing. I play a lot of 2HG...... people are starting to run very creature light decks, meaning that every time I see an aura deck from a random, and htey aren't my partner, their is an 80% chance that their partner is going to pick something stupid that they can't really buff. This deck needs to run creatures unless you know your partner, or you partner picks green. HS or elves green. Getting this as my partner when I am running mind maze is almost bad as getting someone who doesn't know how to use it using D&B.

On the slivers, it seems to benefit some players to only run 2 colors to suit their playing styles.

Running 20 to 24 lands:
Small creature decks, such as sylvan might, get screwed running too many forests as I've seen time and again and experienced myself. Since I put it at 21 lands, I've had no trouble whatsoever.
I've found that 21 lands in EtD stops the constant land floods the deck is notorious for.
22 lands in most of the decks seem perfect. They don't screw, they don't flood, they don't falter due to land drops.
If running more than 24 lands, something is wrong. I run 24 in Hall of Champions along with the 2 gleam of resistance and it does ...just right. higher than 23 lands in Mul Daya and I get long periods of land only, where at 22 or 23(plus eye of ugin) the deck thins fast, ramps right and ends the game very quickly.
Most players have been dropping the Khalni Expedition entirely lately...I agree with this.

In short, instead of relying on others saying "run x lands", playtest yourself until you get the right number to suit your deck build. START at 24 and lower the amount if you draw land too often.

*I've heard, in weenie decks like our sylvan might, that players often recommend as low as 15 lands. I don't think I could do this with a gun to my head.

New forum...same old posts...

21 lands in EtD? In a deck that has a ton of 5+CMC creatures? I run 24-25, and never have land floods.
I also disagree with 22 lands in most decks. I have 1 (MM) that I run 22 in...everything else is more.
26 in Chant seems to work for me (plus the eye).

*sigh*

Anyone who recommends 15 lands is ............ really really bad at managing a mana curve. Where did you hear someone beginning to recommend this?

20 lands and you are getting flooded all the time................. what is your definition of a mana flood? Because every single other forum member who tries this gets regularly mana screwed, not flooded.

I know this is a forum where we are supposed to be openminded, but this thread is literally supposed to be "advice for beginners". Telling any beginner that it's okay to test 20 to 22 lands, and that that is a workable proposition, is really really bad advice. That is why we keep pointing this out. Because not only is it bad advice for beginners........ it literally defies math in a way that can't be argued. Running more than 20 lands does not lead to mana floods in any environment that even remotely follows the laws of statistics, and insisting on it means that you have really really really bad luck, a really really really wierd definition of a flood, or you aren't alloweing for a large enough sample size.



Here is some general advice while I am here:
Your opponent's are going to be running a lot of removal. Be prepared for this.
Try to run creatures with EVASION. This means flying, trample, unblockable, fear, intimidate, or haste most of the time.
Don't attack when you have more to lose than to gain. Basically, if the threat of you blocking will preserve a significant amount of life compared to whatever damage you may do, then holding stuff back to block is better.
Try to rememeber what each deck has.

15 lands is completely crazy

The deck list that won the LA SCG Open yesterday (RUG Delver) ran 18 lands and it has an average casting cost below 1(if you count Force of Will, Daze, and Gitaxian Probe as costing 0), never really wants to get to three lands, a curve that stops at 2 (Tarmogoyf), and runs 11 cantrips at 1 mana or less(Brainstorm, Gitaxian Probe, and Ponder. None of which can be said about Sylvan Might.

So, how do you guys manage your decks for 2HG? Do you constantly modify your deck manually when you switch between 2HG and 1v1, or do you have a set of deck that you only play 2HG and a set that you only play 1v1 or is there a trick I don't know about that allows you to quickly switch between two configurations?

I usually have a couple set decks I play for 2hg

I wish! That would make things much better. Honestly, and, I don't play 2HG that much...the average level of play is so weak that, playing my normal 1v1 deck builds is almost always good enough.

But...if they had a way to have multiple builds, I would use that in a heartbeat.

In short, you're helping noone recommending 24 lands or higher for all decks. 2 league champions out of hundreds ran 24 lands and that's where players are getting this crud from. Even the math for 24 lands gets laughed at on every pro forum it's mentioned as it has no basis in fact.

I'm not going to argue about this with you. I've run 22 lands plus eye of ugin in Chant and the deck HAS NOT LOST. Why? I'm not sitting there pulling land after land, that's already on the field. No, I'm drawing winning spells after winning spells.

That's what we have to do. We wish we could save deck configurations.

I playtest constantly and that would ease things up considerably for everyone.

All of mine are 2hg. Some players do what Yertle does. There are some decks that aren't good in 1vs1 but are great in 2hg.

I agree man. it's crazy. That's one forum I now avoid even looking at. I couldn't do that. I just couldn't. 20 lands is as low as I'll ever go.

But with Sylvan Might, I playtested 50 times with lands from 20 to 24..10 times each. 22, 23, 24 lands just left your draw at almost diddly for Stampede and Sylvan Messenger. 21 did just fine as did 20. I run 21 atm due to testing Slate of Ancestry, but will probably switch back to 20 if it doesn't pan out.

I don't read what's on the forums for how many lands, nor what spells to run. I read them for inspiration which has waned to nothing lately. I also read them when I'm having trouble making a cut in a deck.

I playtest it all myself instead. If I run a deck 100 times at 24 mana and it floods over 70% of the time, I'm going to drop lands, simple as that. I'm not going to go ask someone else. I'm going to playtest until I get the lands just right.

I don't recommend this for everyone though as you probably don't have the amount of free time I have. This is why I provide what I've learned from my over 1000 hours of playing to other players. You can choose to take this playtested advice, or subscribe to theories about why x lands is better than y.

The reason I'm not going to argue anymore is I am tired of it. I don't theorize, i know for a fact how many lands work, and how many don't. I'm sick of providing this help only to be naysayed by guesswork.

I'm bored with it. Sick to death of arguing at all. If anyone wants my help from now on, contact me [email protected]. Otherwise, I'm not going to waste anymore time here or on that "other site". I've already gotten "disciples" who learn from me as I learn from them anyways.

So... hopefully I don't get flamed to hell for asking this, but do you guys play real magic? # of lands is something that's been pretty much agreed on. I find it very strange that this is a subject of such heated discussion for DotP.

PS: General wisdom says 20-22 for aggro decks, depending on curve, 24-25 for midrange and 25+ for control. Obviously, synergy with lands may change these numbers... ramp decks actually play *more* lands because you want to hit all your land drops early and late game, all that fetching thins the deck. If you miss your early drop, then you're wasting your ramp just to stay on par with your opponent rather than getting ahead.

Sylvan might seems to have a very low curve so yeah, 21 lands seems fine. The ramp deck though, I wouldn't go too low. I mean, the deck is built such that you can work through mana screw by using your ramp as replacement to lands, but it significantly weakens the deck since you're not getting as far ahead as you should be and instead are wasting mana just to stay even.

If you're going to mention what "Pros" are doing lets look at the land counts for some actual tournament Eldrazi decks...

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat ... ckID=40759 28 lands
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat ... ckID=39312 25 lands
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat ... ckID=37144 27 lands
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat ... ckID=38640 25 lands
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat ... ckID=35082 26 lands
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat ... ckID=37054 26 lands
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdat ... ckID=35327 27 lands

You say things like this so often - I, personally, don't believe you at all.
Even if you were the absolute best 2HG player in the world, as you say you partner with randoms mostly, there's no way...many of the people who play 2HG are just terrible.
Unless you've only played that deck a few times, there is no way that statement is correct.

When I was running 23 lands...I would miss vital land drops (T3/4/5). Same with 24. With 26+eye, I still miss them sometimes, but not nearly as often.

There is no way by playing 22 lands you are always hitting all of the important land drops. Maybe those are the games you lost with that deck? Selective memory...

@Filobel - I used to play paper, and I play some MTGO.
There are not too many people that argue against the standards...give or take a land here and there. There are just some people who are convinced otherwise. Of course, many of those people also have suggested that running more than 60 cards in a deck is better.