Honestly, I could see Lilan being scum, but I'm basing my town read of him on the fact that he's been playing entirely consistently with how I perceive his town play-style. It's entirely possible that in the months that Lilan and I have gone without playing mafia, he's changed his play-style significantly.

That said, I think Lilan has been scum hunting about how much as I'd expect Lilan to scumhunt, but with the emergence of MoD's replacement and a re-evaluation of his play throughout the game, I feel like Lilan is looking less and less like someone I can automatically assign town-pants to in my head in the face of the newcomer. I'm fairly confident that you are town. I still feel like it's likely based on how the game-state has turned out that day one was two wagons conveniently forming on two town players (you and Lilan) and mafia taking advantage of that blunder to string us around for the entire game up to this point.

@Lilan:

Town/scum + town/scum really strongly disagree with being likely. It would be a positive power for both scum players and a negative power for both town players because they can use that bond to gain insight into their neighbor and report the information to the scumteam to use that against them. It would also create connections between town and scum that would, in a game like this where the nature of your powers are not revealed on death, potentially make people suspect the neighbors as a pair of scum passing as neighbors. I have a limited experience playing with Razorborne but I remember strongly that when he played in my game (IRC Mafia), he was strongly against my use of the "lovers" mechanic as a negative town role and I feel like he's usually philosophically against giving town players abilities that hinder them more than help them. I also feel like he's the sort of person who wouldn't be likely to give two scum players the same ability.

As for all town, I think its unlikely that he would design a game with this many town power roles. So far we have scarlet's martyr, your redirect, and you want to say 4 neighbors, in addition to anyone else who might have had a power and died before revealing it and you want to say that they're all on townside? What power roles does scum have then? I doubt he would create a vanilla scum, but so far we've seen no cops, vigs, role-redirects, town watches, or anything of the sort. I refuse to believe we'd have 6+ town power roles, all of which haven't appeared particularly powerful and no abilities in the hands of mafia. Making a mafia neighbor is an easy way to add another element of intrigue to the game and I find it unlikely that Razorborne would pass it up, especially in a game with powers as low-key as this one. I feel like the standard setup would be a godfather-like figure with babyface or bulletproof, a legman with something like a redirect/neighbor/protection/rolecop, and a vanilla. I can't imagine many more than the number of roles we've seen so far if all of them are town and I'm not sure how they could give the mafia abilities that would interact well with these extremely mild abilities. The only way I could see 4 town neighbors is if you were scum and we lost a vig or investigator earlier on, but I don't think it's very likely that you would reveal your redirection ability that early on if you were scum.

Neighbours aren't power roles and scum/town neighbourhoods don't really hurt the town very much, nor do mafia gain much of an advantage with the present of multiple scum/town neighbourhoods in the game.

If you want my random guess, I think razorborne probably designed the roles in the game to be more or less alignment neutral, and then randomly flipped three of them to be mafia, possibly rerolling or adding rules to promote a balanced setup.

@1

I would consider neighbors to be a power role and I think in a setting where you can't confirm players as neighbors upon death, doing two town/scum neighborhoods would be pretty bastard.

@2

I think that's extremely unlikely.

I guessing Raz's concept is 'connection', like how there are pairs of players in this game connected by something - neighbors, a redirect and mafia by their chat. I had the theory that if we don't have a cop in this game, both pairs of neighbors could be town/town.



@Freddeh: And that explanation also covers why you assumed all 3 mafia is in me, Lilan, Rubik and MoD initially, even though your statement also stated you assume Ambar to be mafia?

Vote Count
Lilan (1): Garren
PP (1): Lilan
Confused (1): Freddeh

Not Voting: Rubik, MoD, Confused, PP, Ambar

with 8 alive it's 5 to lynch

deadline is Tuesday, May 5th, 10:14pm, pacific time

Oooooooh, OOOOOOH, Yeaaaaaah, that was just a mistype...I didn't even realize I typed scum there until now because I meant to say (and thought I said) town. I'm acting under the assumption that Ambar is TOWN not scum. I'm not 100% convinced of it, but I don't disagree that the first days lynch definitely points to him more likely being town than scum. Depends on how bastard this game is though, but town seems severely underpowered right now and I can't imagine that mafia has an extremely strong lynch protection on top of it. The only viable situation which has Ambar as scum is that it was an ability that JaC triggered to save Ambar, but that seems unlikely for a couple reasons: 1) JaC mentioned multiple times that he's tired of dying day 1, so using an ability to sacrifice himself then would be completely anti-that thought, and 2) JaC is plenty smart enough to know not to waste something like that on a day 1 lynch, which is a crapshoot at best.

I realize that I'm outguessing the mod a bit here, but we don't have the luxury of worrying about how bastard this game is, when we're probably in lylo with only a couple days until the timelimit.

MASONS are a power role. Neighbors are just a side conversation that could potentially be used for something especially if someone slips or there is an interesting role interaction, of which there is none that I'm aware of here (I'm vanilla outside of the neighbor fwiw).

Like, I've been trying to play more laissez faire this game because dodging around certain topics is more annoying than a scum tell anymore, but even I would never have the stupidity to ask this.

You're either just extremely stupid, or scum trying to get as much info out of people on your way out. The latter seems more likely combined with your complete lack of actual opinion giving.



That said, looking through things, if we go by Rubiks split, I have a basically 2 in 3 chance of lynching someone scum in group 2, since I think two of them are town atm.

Hm.

We still have basically no one that has given a list other than Rubik though, which is rather disappointing, hopefully once the weekend is over that'll change.

So, it is wrong to double-check our resources when we are on lylo? If our cop haven't show up yet, I just assume we don't have one but it wouldn't hurt to ask.

And I apologize, my brain doesn't understand the concept of this 'laissez faire' that you speak of.

Also, I have two papers to do on my Tuesday (I am not sure what day it will be for this game.)

There's no point to it other than trying to root one out, if we had a cop and he had something, he would have said so by now, I try to assume everyone has at least a base level of competency considering how long we've all played .

Basically, I'm trying to care less about wondering if what I'm saying could look scummy, and thus being overly cautious around my wording in lieu of just getting my thoughts out there.

I have 4 midterms this week, whats your point? XD. Excuses are another scum tell. Its not like this thread is super long either...

I dont see what scum would have to gain if they found out there was a cop at this point. I mean, it's LyLo afterall. Plus, someone claiming cop at this point would look pretty scummy, IMO

I don't see what town has to gain with a no-info cop claim right now either, for exactly the reason you just mentioned. You just mentioned reasons why TOWN would have nothing to gain from claiming cop.

Scum gets to find a cop and a potentially free cop kill when/if we lynch a scum today. Gotta look at the big picture m8.

Yeah, fishing this late in the game feels suspicious to me. I don't know why Confused did it, but I don't like it.

I'll catch up with the thread today. Weekend was super busy. Will post more today. How many hours do we have before the deadline?

Also, another question: Is there any piece of info that I'm missing that confirms that we're in lylo? I know it's a likely assumption, but Town looks so underpowered so far that I wouldn't be surprised by a 2-person Mafia team.

Vote Count
Lilan (1): Garren
PP (1): Lilan
Confused (1): Freddeh

Not Voting: Rubik, MoD, Confused, PP, Ambar

with 8 alive it's 5 to lynch

deadline is Tuesday, May 5th, 10:14pm, pacific time

from this vote count, roughly 30.

Some stuff I noticed in the last few posts:

1)


Pretty much what I understood, and I still think it's a really bad case because of the reasons I underlined in a past post.



2) Lilan says she doesn't like how much Rubik is gaming the mod, and Rubik answers that with even more gaming the mod.

3) Confused fishing. I still don't like that.

At this point, I'm inclined to believe Confused and Rubik are scum. I'm going back to look at voting patterns and what has been said about Neighbors before giving my vote for the day. In the mean time, any discussion about the question I made in my last post would be appreciated (frankly, any discussion would be appreciated period).

I think a 2 person mafia team is unlikely, but if that's what this game is, we'll cross that bridge if/when we get there. It's better to err on the side of caution when it comes to potential LyLo situations, so I'm treating today as LyLo and I expect that of everybody else.

---

@2: I don't see what's wrong with gaming the mod a bit. I'm honestly pretty uncomfortable with how *little* Lilan is willing to game the mod and I think it's extremely unlikely that Razor would randomly select mild powers from a shared pool and distribute them to town and scum alike without any discretion. I think that sort of practice is fairly rare and would be unlikely in a game as thematic as this one. I'm fine if Rag isn't willing to accept my theory that 3 town, 1 scum neighbor is the most likely setup right now, but claiming that razor left such a large portion of his game up to chance is absurd, in my opinion.

@3: I might agree with you on that if the town were in a bit less of a dire situation right now, but I'm willing to chalk him asking about that up to desperation. Scum has no pressing need to fish for information right now and trying to do so would be a high risk/low return play right now.

Trying to outgess the mod as an ancilliary strategy is okay. You can weave into probably of the mod inclusing this setup and whatnot, but it isn't a particularly effective tactic.

I'm always little suspicious of people who actively try to do it, but honestly Rubik's kind of right.

We're almost guaranteed in lylo.

We haven't had any additional NKs, so we don't have a serial killer, and there isn't any indication of a third alignment. The most probable set up is that we are in lylo, as this seems liek a fairly traditional game.

At this point, all of our cases are made on bad arguments, and the case against me, while I disagree with it's conclusion is pretty accurate in some aspects. I haven't been the most active, and I've mostly been participatory in the form of general mafia theory and discussing bad reasoning, but, I haven't really draw lists up and don't vote often. I just don't do that when I play, and it's not the most productive of strategies, but it's my niche and it's how I play. I've been more useful than some, but at least I haven't said as much stupid stuff.

I'd like point the finger at Garren who, after I jumped on him, hasn't really done much, like myself. On the other hand, while Confused would have tripped a lot of flags, I don't think he's mafia.

Why don't you think Confused is mafia PP?

Vote: Confused

because i think i'm the lynch otherwise if we run into deadline which is any time now if i'm reading right