With my combo going I don't need Mentor. Without it he's a Gray Ogre. Well not that bad, but you know. I could be wrong but I just want the card draw, no questions asked. Mentor has way more upside but needs more support so I've chosen the "safer" option.

Not true, IMO. First of all with him in play you can cloud shift any of your early creatures (Especially true with Wall of Omens) for card draw for 2 Mana. Your win cons are deep and late, so you may really need this as a utility option. Second, every creature in the deck (except for the pickles) can draw you an extra card for one additional mana, so he gives the deck endless gas. Third, although he does need some added support, he can still be saved when needed, especially later. And Four, probably most importantly, should you have to PC, he is the card you want to drop the following turn in order to get your position way ahead of your opponent, right away. Play him on an empty board with 6 mana +, and it should be GG very rapidly. If nothing else, your opponent will blow the last of their removal dealing with him, leaving the path wide open for Talrand or Bone Wand to take the game over completely.

I've updated the deck here. I made most of the changes after a good chat with mobius recently, and since you're both so adamant about Mentor I've relented. We'll see how it goes.

LOL! all good.

I set out to make something a bit different this morning. I wanted to make a tempo deck that kept your opponent from playing, while creating a board state and attacking either over, or through their defenses. It's way under curve, and any thoughts on how to get it closer to where it should be, without screwing up the concept would be welcomed, but anyway, here it is. It plays very well so far.



There really isn't much need for explanation here, but here goes: The premise of this deck is to keep your opponent from playing their hand efficiently. This means, that pretty much every chance you get you want to bounce things (especially expensive things), or tap things. This is especially effective, if your opponent keeps playing their highest CMC cards, but you should be okay, even if they don't. Classic tricks might be bouncing a creature at the end of their turn, playing your hand, and then using pestermite on their turn to tap the land they needed to play the same card you just bounced. As you create board presence, some of the cards become extremely powerful. And of course, you should always be thinking ahead, and avoid playing cards that can eliminate blockers unless you have to, or gain tremendous advantage from doing so.

On the subject of the low curve, I am a bit torn. This deck likes to have multiple plays a turn, so right now I am looking for big card draw that would keep my hand relatively full while allowing me to have the maximum amount of options/plays in order to handle my opponents creatures, etc... I'm not sure if this decks get better or worse by incorporating some more late-game style spells. (in other words, when the deck is working, I may actually prefer to have pestermite in hand over even a baneslayer because the perstermite might win me the game right then and there.)

edit: considering -1 land +1 Time Warp (which gets me closer to a good balance mana wise)

Note: this deck should demolish pretty much any slow, cede the first 1/2 turns kind of a deck, (edit 2) but it loses badly to Obelix of Alara, and life gain.

that is so jank

Dammit it almost works. It's about 50/50... But it's not far from 90/10. I'm going to try to update it tomorrow.

I think the default UW "Frozen Winds" decklist is the most effective default decklist by far, and its pretty similar. It adds military intelligence and a few more cheap, evasive beaters. It is pretty similar to that list you just cooked up.

In my current version, I'm running military intelligence. It's hit or miss. Maybe you get the enchant and only one creature. Maybe you get two creatures, no enchantment, and run out of gas. The deck needs more cantrips, but we lack cantrips. I really want to try to make this build, because when I've played it, the deck holds people off for like 20 turns every time, so it's really fun trolling them - BUT it needs to end in a win, rather than a snarky (usually) win for your opponent.

So I'm considering running this deck at 19-21 lands, with a lot more cheap creatures, but all of the current ones as well. The problem is the deck just dies to certain kinds of things - and the game WILL GO LONG, so you will see your opponent's end game. This deck, on the other hand, lacks for a proper end game. You will get them down to almost dead, but unfortunately, in about 50% of the games, not quite dead = never dead.

Please note, I am certainly capable of making a competitive UW deck, but I want this one to work too, because it's fun.

Add Squadron Hawks. Problem with cantrips and too few creatures solved.

Definitely considering them, thanks for the suggestion. Also looking at additional scry cards, even out to dissolve, although the deck is already heavy at 3 CMC.

Thoughts on this board flood/strengthen, aggro deck. I'd like a way to add Attended Knight, possibly in exchange for Elite Vanguard, +1 card. Any thoughts on the build in general?



Basic premise: nothing new here, just keep trying to refine the concept. Flood the board, kill them by boosting the creatures. Gain the maximum possible benefit by having the most possible creatures on the board at all times. This was originally an all white build, but I realized that I was seriously missing out on the potential of Military Intelligence, so I adjusted the deck to ensure (under all but the most extreme circumstances) that I'd be able to activate MI every turn that it was in play.

I am looking to add Attended Knight, as it would be another card that activates MI on it's own, just by being played and attacking. I'm not sure where it fits in though.

Edit: other cards I am considering = Captain of the Watch, and Skymark Roc

Feedback on this would be appreciated (as always).

-2 Selfless Cathar
-2 Inspired Charge

+4 Whatever

Might be able to cut both Edicts.. I imagine you'd like to have them dead before turn 6-7 realistically. Banisher Priest should get you there.

I like MI over Mentor of the Meek here.. good call.

I dunno, Inspired Charge wins me sooooo many games it's almost insane (in testing only so far though). I'd be really hesitant to cut it, especially because it is instant and could be drawn by MI to end a game right then and there on that specific attack phase. Selfless Cathar on the other hand IS a bit more marginal here, but it has also won me games. Edicts and Vanguards are basically the only cards that don't fit very well, but Vanguards are really good on their own, and well Editcs... I dunno, I guess they could be dropped. You have a point.

edit: oddly Brimaz is also marginal here, because he neither boosts everything nor provides sufficient critters for MI on his first attack (he actually takes 2 turns to get there).

edit2: do we only run 2 copies of Beastmaster Ascension because that's our max possible, or would we run 4 copies if we could? In this deck Inspired Charge has the same effect. Play it, and win that turn. (Okay, it's not exactly the same, but you get the point)

edit3: it's either a mini overrun at instant speed, or the card text basically reads "Destroy all blocking creatures target player controls."

I would do something about that mana. I don't think you need anymore than 6 multi color lands and that might be too many for 3 blue sources in the entire deck. I think it really slows the deck down. Not being able to play MI would suck, but unless you are going to add some more blue card draw like bident I don't see the point in so many.

I disagree, a dead card is far worse than some early decisions. Plus the deck is stacked at the 2 CMC slot, so I don't mind playing a 2 CMC card two turns in a row, Especially if t2 is Raise the Alarm, t3 is MI and a tap land. You need that many U mana providers to be able to consistently play MI. This deck isn't only about speed btw. That said, I'd consider any UX (note: not any UUX cards, e.g.: not Bident) cards that people might think belong in the deck. I just don't know what they would be.

I see your point, but you aren't only taking one turn off curve with 9 out of 23 lands being tap lands. What about turn 4 or 5 when 40% of your lands are tap lands you might miss your paragon or an extra squadron hawk that you might need to trigger the MI. Try 7 and it will be just as consistent getting out MI and you will end up being able to spend more mana or at least have the option to.

And I see yours... It's actually always at least a turn three play. I'm going to remove one tri-land and add one plain, before my next iteration. I know that's not quite what you said, but I think it's the right move. 8 is the right amount, IMO. If I find that on average it's dropping even later, I may remove one or two more, but I doubt it. T3 MI is nuts, I'd want it every game if possible.

That's exactly what I was going to write. From my experience playing mono-white, 2 Inspired Charge and 2 Selfless Cathar is totally enough. With a rush deck Angelic Edict seems a bit slow, as you want to finish the game earlier. I really like exalted in rush decks, but it's a nonbo with Military Intelligence.

I'd add Cloudfin Raptor and Triton Shorestalker both are great with MI + you get the evasion.

I'm on board with both Mega (never thought I'd say THAT) and Thud.

You'll need your finishers for sure but draw frequency dictates you don't need that many (they're finishers after all). Same goes for the mana comment. Tempo/curve is paramount in a weenie aggro strategy and 9 tap lands in the hopes of hitting 1 of 3 cards early is too costly.

elk