This is what I am currently testing.


Manabase is 11W 17U 6B 12R 9G. I wanted more against the aggro matchup so I put in the two war monks instead of shock. Shock is just a useless card in many matchups. Self mill is more prominent now, and I do not want to kill their utility creatures early on. War monk is good at encouraging your opponent to build up a board, making sweepers all the more effective. I am down to 1x Obelisk because its a card I want to delay casting as long as possible, and I had 2x earlier to compensate for lack of sweepers against the token matchup.

My decklist has evolved many times and this is about as close as it has ever been to Monkeem. Compared to Monkeem I am:
-1 Banefire
-2 treasured find
-1 war monk
-1 BSA
-1 angelic edict

+3 nullify
+2 archaeomancer
+1 Suffer

I always liked the idea of a finisher that has some versatility. Suffer is more than just a silver bullet card to me, it obviously hoses self mill which is very common (25% at least) but I also find the lifegain more relevant in a number of matchups. As a finisher, it commonly isn't the last card I cast. If I can stabilize my life with suffer then I can often just ignore my opponent's board for a turn or two and put all my mana into resounding thunder / obelisk activations. And I consider it some of the best possible tech against decks that run banefire: They usually have enough removal to kill your lifelinked creatures. When they tap out for banefire you can respond with suffer, causing a huge life swing and negating most of their damage.

Nullify is very important because it makes it easier to keep mana open, which in turn makes it easier to use T. Visions. In the early turns it allows you to do something like ground assault + nullify open, later on it is easier to cast cleansing / obelisk at sorcery speed and leave 2 mana open. Visions basically helps to keep the board static once you have set up, nullify and dissolve make it easier to put something on the board and still leave mana open. Although nullify is creature only, it makes it easier to save dissolve for matchups where non-creature spells are important (e.g. Spider Spawning).

I can get on board with cutting the 4th visions because my new manabase is doing pretty well. I only need mana fixing in maybe 25% of my games, so I put in the fourth inspirations.
I love this deck. The core of flexible spells that scale well and are good against all matchups is pretty amazing.

Enjoy

Why Flesh to Dust? Why not less mana-intensive Angelic Edict?

Also, I like the idea of 5-colour aggro more than 5-colour control (as in this version it is exceptionally boring), but you have no colour fixing. You are relying on having the right colour mana for what you have in hand, which may not happen (haven't tried this, but all those tap land make it difficult to get critters out on time). This gives other aggro decks, control decks, and combo decks time to get their gameplan moving.

I would try and find some way of fixing this, either by mana fixing or dropping colour requirements down to increase consistency. The deck looks like you took all the good creatures (well, most of them) and put them all in one deck.

most of the creatures in this deck are powerful 3-drops. turn 1 tap land, turn 2 tap land, turn 3 regular land, always play a threat. you can then keep playing the tap lands while playing your 3 mana creatures. Usually your opponent gets overwhelmed pretty quickly because most of the creatures are a pain in the ass to get rid of. I used flesh to dust because its an instant and it isnt white(stormbreath is a pain). Give it a few runs and i think youll find yourself enjoying it. If you want to swap out flesh to dust for angelic edict go ahead, let me know how it plays.

Initial post was a bad idea not worth discussing. I wanted a way of dealing with ramp decks that hit me with resounding thunder and banefire... monomania came to mind. Turn 5 monomania turn 6 planar cleansing is a complete blowout against any deck, but it has 0 value later in the match. It is actually decent if you draw it early enough, but I can't stand high variability cards.

Overall I am happy with my deck although it is lacking in some matchups. Aggro and aura boil down to whether they can get several auras on a creature before I can kill it and whether I get sweepers. My other worst matchup isn't really against a deck, it is against specific cards. Decks that run 4x cultivate 4x resounding thunder and 2x banefire can basically beat me without casting anything else, which is pretty sad.

I really want to add more lifegain in my deck, and I don't mean lifelinked creatures. Suffer is a quality card that can really help in that matchup, but it is not only narrow in application, it is terrible in multiples except against self-mill. All the other available lifegain sucks. Sure there are good lifegain enablers in 2015 but pure lifegain cards should be pretty amazing. I ran Gerard's Wisdom back when it was first printed, and believe me, gaining 14 life for 4 mana is nothing to sneeze at.

I keep on looking at Tribute to Hunger and looking at the combination of lifegain + killing a large creature, but it just doesn't work in practice.

I have gone with -1 resounding thunder, +1 rhox war monk, -1 island, +1 Sylvan Bounty, -1 arcane sanctum, +1 island citadel.

The point of 24 lands is to exploit the flexibility of the landcycling cards. If I am starved I will just start cycling. I also commonly use the landcycling cards in order to get around all the CiPT lands, often planning several turns ahead for what the important numbers are that I want to hit. It is also possible for this deck to get draws consisting of land and draw spells which draw you more land.

I doubt anyone will be thrilled with sylvan bounty. I can't say it puts a grin on my face like a board wipe. In testing I have drawn it three times. In one matchup it wasn't needed so I just grabbed another land. In another matchup I was playing against an aggro deck with 0 sweepers and 0 war monks, I needed a way to stall until I could bring the obelisk online and it bought me a turn. In another game against Jund ramp there were several times were my life total was low enough that he could have banefired me, after I kept on getting hit with resounding thunder and vengevine. I did not need to use bounty because I was able to resolve an obelisk and my opponent wasted his treasured find on sheoldred instead of the banefire in his GY.

Bounty is in for now. I may not need lifegain in 50% of matchups but I can use mana fixing in 100% of my matchups.

Here is my latest version


I normally am pretty critical when I see a deck running so many cards at such a low cardcount. I have 3 dissolves, 3 ground assault, 2 planar cleansing, 2 anger of the gods, and 4 think twice - and the mythic rare Kozilek. Everything else is at a reduced quantity. This is pretty deliberate. Inspiration is generally more important than archaeomancer in the early game, since it helps you to hit land drops and is instant speed, but I want to see Archaeomancer pretty often to keep my hand full of whatever is important in a given matchup, hence the 3/2 split. Resounding thunder is hugely important in the late game and vs. certain matchups, but drawing it in multiples can be annoying because it is expensive and it takes a long time to reach 8 mana - hence the two shock. In my mind shock is mostly competing for a slot with the war monk - the war monk is a house vs certain matchups, but a simple shock is critically important vs auras, and its low cost allows you to kill something and draw a card with think twice. As far as the counters, I weigh them vs board removal, I am currently at a 9/12 balance in favor of board removal. I could give more examples, but with in general all control cards come with a drawback, so you have to balance them to fit different matchups.

Current mana balance is at 11W 17U 5B 13R and 9G.

I am considering adding Rune Scarred Demon to my list. I really like the idea of a tutor effect, the mana wouldn't be easy but I generally wouldn't want to tap out to cast him anyway. The hard part is finding the cut - and deciding if raising my curve is worth it.

I don't think I will be making any more major adjustments to my build, it is performing quite well. I still lose to mana screw and mana flood - sometimes it happens in slow motion, I count my cards and realize that of the 30 cards I have drawn, 18 were lands. Screw and flood are happening in roughly equal proportions. Color screw is very rare.

I just wanted to post one recent game I played that highlights nullify. My opponent was playing a (5 color?) ramp deck on the play, he went cultivate, think twice, obelisk of alara, pellaka wurm, pellaka wurm, and Rune Scarred Demon. I had all the counters I needed, and after the demon I put a dissolve back in my hand via Archaeomancer.

Could I have used sorcery speed board removal here? Maybe. But I was happy to keep my opponent from gaining life, drawing cards, etc. My opponent kinda fizzled out after those first few turns and I killed him with 1 damage from his phyrexian rager, 2 damage from a shock, 12 damage from resounding thunder, and five damage from suffer the past.

Resounding Thunder is merely an adequate card early in the game, shock hits 75% of the targets that thunder hits for two less mana. In games that I want to finish quickly (like the above game) I usually don't have many thunder targets anyway. I think three copies is the sweet spot.

I have designed the following as a 5 colour control deck. Lots of draw and ramp power to get you going. I have found that Charmbreaker Devils and some counterspells later on to keep it alive will let you get good spell recursion, and I can always treasured find for a charmbreaker or another spell. Worst comes to worst I can reset charmbreaker back into the deck with kozi. I haven't play tested this deck much so any input is greatly appreciated.

Edit:Was thinking about taking out suffer the past for a resolute archangel or Baneslayer Angel. Let me know what you guys think good or bad?

Without having tried your list out, I think that you might want to consider a few things:

Swap treasured find for Archaeomancer. You have 3 sweepers and no obelisk, so I think you can find yourself in a situation where your opponent has 1/1 tokens that you want to block. A little 1/2 body is card advantage. And doing even a little damage via Archaeomancer can make it much easier to finish your opponent with burn.

Swap 2 traumatic visions for 2 counterlash. This is basically GG if your opponent tries to cast a creature and you resolve Kozilek, but it will also enable you to get your charmbreakers out with all of your mana open. Archaeomancer works very well with counterlash because it gives you a secondary lash target and brings it back to your hand. T. visions loses value when you already have 4 cultivates for mana fixing. I think you can still keep one copy if you want.

Of course 5 good counterlash targets might not be enough, but it only costs 1 more than traumatic visions and this deck has ramp.

I have wanted to play with a list like this for some time, my hunch is that it will perform slightly worse than my 5 color control / Monkeem total control, but I adore charmbreaker devils and would like to give it a try. I haven't tried ramp and counterspells in the same list, but even if you cast it later on I think it still has value.

I think 2 banefires is probably too much... lifegain is a good idea, it is one of the obelisk modes I use most frequently. If you start adding more 1 ofs then Runescarred Demon gains value too... another great dude to cast with counterlash. In addition to lifegain I would be thinking about cheap ways of protecting your threats, maybe 1x negate, cloudshift, or undying evil.

HenWen I'm testing your 5 color control and it's been stellar so far.. 5-0. I made a few changes.. nothing too major.

I took out the 2 Archaeomancers and replaced them with 2 Warden of the Eye.. because.. I also took out one Inspiration and put in a Sphinx Bone-Wand. I wanted another wincon.. the deck really doesn't need it.. but I want it. Warden let's me get that and Obelisk back after a Cleaning, or if someone runs enchantment removal.. so that's why I made the switch.

Really like the manabase too.. very smooth. Great work.

Thanks for the ideas Henwen. I can definitely see counterslash pay off with few more creatures. I would probably sack 1 x inspiration and 1 x traumatic for it. The reason I like traumatic so much is the land cycling lets me nab a forest if I don't get snag a green in my starting hand and have cultivate. Basically it increases the types of hands that I can take and make playable without mulliganing and losing card advantage.

Runescarred Demon seems like a great choice especially with a baneslayer as a opposed to suffer then I can make counterslash a real thing. However, The mana would need to be adjusted as I am not running much black or white.

As far as Treasured Find vs Archaemancer goes I would prefer a body to no body but the mana cost of tresured find + the ability to grab my charmbreaker devils back is too good atm for me to replace it. I will test my list out a little more then make some of the adjustments you mentioned and try it out. If you think of any other ways to improve on the list hit me up, and since you told me you are trying the list on steam let me know how it works out for you.

Binderato I did a little bit of testing, I can't say I learned much about your changes (except Charmbreakers are awesome) but the one thing I did notice is that your manabase needs work. I am being pretty vague here because charting out your mana production, your mana needs etc. takes time. You certainly need some more blue to be able to get visions early on.

Thanks for testing it with me Henwen. I haven't added more blue yet as I still have 12 sources of blue mana atm I want to see if it manages to work out. What I did do however was add one more green source as a triland. Then I removed 1 mountain for a swamp and removed suffer + 2 x banefire for 2 x runescarred and 1 x baneslayer. After that I swapped 1 x inspiration and 1 x traumatic for 2 x counterslash. I have streamed a bit in my stream thread with the deck and it played fairly well. Rush is still a problem to handle unless i get the field wipes, but I was hitting all my land drops after the mana changes. I forgot which trilands I swapped for the extra green I believe it was -1 mythic monastery + 1 frontier bivouac.

Let me know if you have any other suggestions, counterslash has been beastly. The only reason I dont want to get rid of tresured find though is it has been a god send when it comes to retreiving monsters and spells alike. Thanks again for testing and let me know your findings. I will stream more with this deck later today to showcase my results with it.

How can I take down post? It has become irrelavent. sry.

I did create a 5 colour version

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=3894&start=300#p286719

However the 4 colour version with planar cleansing turned out better, treasure find was not needed.

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=4995&start=120#p286754

So I really don't like adding the archaeomancer at all he's slow. I haven't tried the deck without shock yet but even that scares me. this deck needs to get though the early game, once you can do that, you take over the game and win. arch is only helpful after you won and your just closing out the game. you don't want to drop achao instead of holding up a counter or draw. I don't understand why TF is needed at all. the card draw is so powerful I feel that it gets the job done, you don't need a bigger tool box. plus, again this deck needs to get passed the early game. that's when TF is at it's worse. when there is nothing in the yard. TF is good later in the game, when you have already won and your just trying to close the game out. Angelic surpisingly has saved me in so many situations it's unbelievable. it's so reliable because of the card draw.

I liked the idea of adding quickin I really want to see that happen/pulled off. I feel that would be so powerful with all the socry cards. planar seems good in theroy but it's land drop six and costs 3 white. I tested it in another control deck and it's just so expensive. this deck has so many counters/removal, there board never really get's that big anyway. a big problem with this deck is stuff like spider spawning at tiems but generally that's not even much of a problem. planar doesn't even deal with spiders too well anyway because they can just cast it again. I'm on the fense about planar

Visions is so good in this deck. not even just for mana fixing but sometimes you may get stuck on land drop 7 and you want to get your resounding thunders going. you cycle a visions and win the game......... I won't mind too much if you take one out or so, However, I know it sounds crazy to people but even though obolisk is good, I think if anything can be taken out it's obolisk. if you do add planar, taking out obolisk makes planar even better. again, back to that theme. this deck needs to get though the early game. obolisk doesn't help with that. i often find myself getting into trouble with it if you tap out for it on turn 6. and the trouble isn't worth it because I never use it anyway because I end up doing other stuff so it just sits there. you can drop it land drop 8 and use it but then you don't have a counter up. I find the most effective I ever use it is land drop 9 where I can drop it and have a counter up and use it on end step if i need too.... I just don't find it good enough. If the mana can support a clensing I say lose obolisk for clensing?

Eh, I can see going down to 3 thunders but not 2. it closes out so many damn games.
I really feel like he's right, and adding 2 reprisals I don't like the deck doesn't have trouble with big creatures...... I like the shocks better.

Moppin I would like to point out that you are quoting things Hakeem said before the current 4 color Monkeem decklist was posted. Before you edited out one of your previous posts you were quoting my first five color decklist. If you want to discuss how people builds their decks it helps to be on the same page.

Archaeomancer isn't a turn 4 play 95% of the time. Actually there are very few things in my deck that I cast "on curve." If I wait for two more land drops I can cast any sorcery speed spell (Rhox, Archaeomancer, Obelisk, Cleansing, Anger) with enough mana open to Nullify. Usually I plan several turns ahead for any sorcery speed play, making sure that I have the right mana, that I can drop an untapped land into play on the right turn, and determine if nullify is enough or if I need to watch out for a non-creature spell.

Playing control requires a ton of thought. That's why I like it. Dropping creatures on the board and turning them sideways gets boring for me pretty quickly. If you do not like Archaeomancer because it has a crappy body when you play it on the board on turn 4 then you are missing the point. Archaoemancer is pure card advantage.

But the real reason why she has become a fixture in my builds is as a way of coping with randomness. 5 color control / Monkeem are decks comprised mainly of answers. You have some control over the frequency of individual cards in your build, but your draw is ultimately random. Lets say your deck has 3 shocks and 3 dissolves. You won't always draw 50% of each. Sometimes you will draw 3 shocks, archaeomancer won't help you if you need dissolve. But more often you will draw at least one copy of a spell you want, and the Archaeomancers act as the 2nd and 3rd copy. I probably get dissolve the most often - but I often win games because I can get another board wipe. When you already run the maximum number of board wipes / dissolves, being able to re-use these spells is pretty nice.

I'm new lol, idk what I'm doing. your right, I didn't realize how long ago stuff was posted.

Just trying to put in my input.

archaeomancer is pretty terrible though. I don't feel the need to get into it.