seems well enough I'll test it out and report back tonight

cant wait to hear what you have to say brothamayne. hopefully it works the way i expect it to.

okay so a couple things, some kind of removal or counter magic is needed in one of the games a person landed mycoloth then doubling season and that was that
I would say think twice (or some kind of instant speed draw) is absolutely needed although the mana base does seem a little uneven, I was frequently missing the blue mana I needed

I thought i included all the think twices, and 3 dissolves. also 2/3 archaeomancers to get those dissolves back. there isnt really removal youre right, but by the time someone plays doubling season and mycoloth you should at least have been able to play ss and block most of the damage, or have goma out to block mycoloth. aggro decks are always going to be a pretty big problem with these decks i feel though, i mean, if i put in removal theres not really anything in black/green/blue that mass removals so it would only be something to get rid of big creatures, and i feel that with ss, goma, and dissolves, theres a pretty decent defense to creature based decks. however, i havent had the chance to run this deck as much as i would like so ill play test it some more myself and see what results i can come up with

there are no dissolves in the second version... oh wait... I see now my b... guess I need a ew pair of glasses... again...

haha i was gonna say. i still havent tried testing it yet so let me see what i can do, if it doesnt work out like i expect then ill definately post back here, i do think this deck has the potential to be a good sultai deck so id like to get it to its max effectiveness

ok so i just had a few games with it but so far, i love it. runs smooth as heck. my first duel was against a pretty decent golgari ss with craterhoof, and i won with laboratory maniac, i wouldve easily won if he wasnt playing ss because by the end of the game we both had about 48 i beleive, i countered his craterhoof since i knew he had it when he used his tf on it, and then top decked laboratory maniac, put out a land to get the 3 mills from hedron, then used tomb scour and put out my laboratory, then used think twice from the grave for the win, i was at 7 cards at this point mind you. IT WAS A BLAST especially since golgari is often viewed as op in this meta, it just gave me a boost of confidence, the last two duels were pretty much blowouts, so i wont even mention. but yah, so far, i have no problems with the way it runs, i havent had any mana problems but i did take out one and add an island i think, so that mightve helped. i would love others opinions though cause i mightve just gotten lucky 4 times in a row, but yah. super fun, super good imo, play it plox haha

The one thing I didn't notice and found out the hard way is that you have to 'draw' the card. You can't mill/discard yourself past 0 to get the win trigger. I hit 0 cards and had my maniac out only to find this out (my ignorance really was the problem). My opponent was bright enough to sit on removal for this step and burned out the maniac and let me top deck for the loss. Sad face times!

Not sure if Inspiration (or other draw card options) would be another consideration to ensure you get the win instead of sitting open waiting till the next turn.


elk

were you not able to get the ss out at all? if someone had removal in their deck and you knew from the beginning i wouldve switched strats to play against it with ss.

i did make a new variation of this deck with jalira and craterhoof
it works great and it pretty much guarantees that people will use their counters/ removal on your jalira/crater, so it adds more win factors to the deck

ill post it in a bit when im done testing

elk what you do is you leave at least one think twice in the discard and 3 mana open so that you can activate in response and win

I definitely figured that one out the hard way


elk

Posting my Sultai self-mill Spider Deck. Nothing fancy here, but it is working pretty good so far. Currently 4-0. My only concern right now is I have no lifegain, but usually a spawning takes care of that against most decks. I have won 3 games via the Maniac and 1 with 3 10/10 Nemesis of Mortals.



As always, comments are welcome.

why no sheoldred?

Great question...simple answer. I forgot him. Her. It.

Anyways, not sure what I would take out...probably a Maniac as he is a pretty bad draw.

one maniac is probaby enough the only thing it loses to is suffer the past and how many times will an opponent only be able to suffer for x =1?

True that...I rarely even encounter anyone playing Suffer anyways...too reactive, usually, but it does blow away a little over 1/2 my decks since I love using the graveyard in one form or another.

2 out of the 4 games I played with the deck last night I had a Maniac in hand and just cast it and drew a card with nothing on the library (the ole' Think Twice trick).

My take on the new and improved Sultai Selfmill



Thanks to the better manafixing I've now also included Archaeomancer and added more noncreature spells, inlcuding Time Warp for the combo.

The 3 main winconditions:

- Spider Spawning
- Laboratory Maniac
- Infinite turn combo with Time Warp, Species Gorger and Archaeomancer

Selfmill cards:

Hedron Crab, gets even better with Cultivate in the deck.
Satyr Wayfinder, selfmill and manafixing.
Necromacer's Assistant, selfmill and decent threat vs control.
Sultai Soothsayer, selfmill and selection + good defensive stats.
Tome Scour, cheap selfmill to go with Archaemoancers.

Cards that exploit selfmill:

Treasured Find to get back key pieces like Lab Maniac, Spiders Spawning or just an extra early Crab.
Archaeomancer to get back cards like Treasured Find and Spider Spawning.
Laboratory Maniac to win the game.
Think Twice for card draw and to win on the spot with Lab Maniac.
Spider Spawning for infinite blockers.

Other:

Cultivate provides extra landfall triggers and makes sure we get to 7 mana to flashback Spiders.
Species Gorger to get a lot of value by replaying Wayfinders, Archaeomancers, Soothsayers and Assistants.
Time Warp for the infinite turns combo with Species Gorger + Archaeomancer

The deck is sweet and wins way more with Lab Maniac than the previous versions did.
Also Spider Spawning for days.

personally I think one maniac is enough

then he gets exiled ^^

good thing it's not the only win condition